Ed "LL" Warinner (Run Game Coordinator FAU)

[NFBuck]

I think I stated this opinion earlier, but I'll give it again. I think the fall-off in OL play the last two years has more to do with scheme/playcalling than it does talent/coaching. The offenses here from 2012-14 were dynamic and unpredictable. We had an identity, and what usually appeared to be a cohesive gameplan. The past two years, we have rarely had any of that...especially not when it counted.

When defenses know what's coming, when you're predictable, when your offense isn't any kind of consistent threat to hurt the defense deep, they can pin their ears back and attack. OL play becomes infinitely more difficult when that is the case. Simply put, I think the Herman offenses consistently had defenses on their toes responding to us. The last two years, we seemed to be responding to defenses that were imposing their will on us. I think that's where a lot of the issues lay. As such, I can't put much blame on Studrawa. Plus, Stud has a track record of coaching some pretty good OL's at LSU.

 

[Hstead]

I think I stated this opinion earlier, but I'll give it again. I think the fall-off in OL play the last two years has more to do with scheme/playcalling than it does talent/coaching. The offenses here from 2012-14 were dynamic and unpredictable. We had an identity, and what usually appeared to be a cohesive gameplan. The past two years, we have rarely had any of that...especially not when it counted.

When defenses know what's coming, when you're predictable, when your offense isn't any kind of consistent threat to hurt the defense deep, they can pin their ears back and attack. OL play becomes infinitely more difficult when that is the case. Simply put, I think the Herman offenses consistently had defenses on their toes responding to us. The last two years, we seemed to be responding to defenses that were imposing their will on us. I think that's where a lot of the issues lay. As such, I can't put much blame on Studrawa. Plus, Stud has a track record of coaching some pretty good OL's at LSU.

Amen brother, preach it, preach it.

I am on board. Hard to block a dude when he doesn't have a clue where the ball is going, damn near impossible when he does.

Play action pass, Hermans bread and butter, slows that pass rush down a lot.

 

[wadc45]

The word I keep hearing is "identity".

This offense has lacked an "identity" this year, especially in the last three games. In years past the "identity" was running Zeke and JT off of wham, bash and counter trey. Making half time adjustments to answer what the defense was presenting but still within the team's overall "identity". Using constraints like jet sweep and four streaks.

The lack of "identity" this year I attribute to the fact there appeared to be too many cooks in the kitchen. It lead to bad game planning, worse in-game adjustments and overall panic at times. This offense did not look in sync against any defense that was considered above average, save maybe Nebraska. Plays coming in late, unnecessary timeouts, etc.

I think Wilson taking full control and developing a RPO scheme with Urban's power spread base is exactly what this team needs right now. Add in a bonafide QB guru who can better develop JT, Burrow, Haskins and Martell and I think we will see vast improvements. Better mechanics, better blocking schemes, better route trees, better in-game adjustments, better constraints.

 

[Buckeye86]

It that was Urban's plan, he should have moved when the iron was hot I just cannot see Meyer firing Smith. Maybe having a heart to heart with him about another coaching job but not canning him.

Yeah, that's Meyer's MO now. Withers wasn't fired, he was hired as HC by James Madison. Beck wasn't fired, he was hired by Texas.

The delay in announcing Wilson is because we're waiting to find out what other opportunities are opening up for Warinner/Studrawa... because they're not being fired, they're taking advantage of new opportunities.

 

[cdiddy70]

"I think I can reply to this. Smith said that he would be staying at Ohio State when Luke took the job at Cincinnati. If you take him for his word, he was not leaving for UC"

Are you submitting the Luke wanted him at UC?

 

[Buckeye86]

Stud had pretty similar results to Ed with this line, with comparable talent. Also under Stud, OSU picked up Davis, Moretti and Myers (obviously they lost Moretti later). Recruiting was rather lackluster under Ed, especially when you factor in the high volume of busts.

2012 (how much Warinner has to do with this class is debatable):

Jacoby Boren - multi year starter at center, major over achiever despite being undersized, you can credit Warinner for developing beyond expectations

Taylor Decker - multi year starter, crushing it in the NFL, probably Warinner's best OL thus far

Pat Elflein - multi year starter, all-American C as senior, major overachiever, you can credit Warinner for developing beyond expectations

Kyle Dodson - bust

Joey O'Connor - bust


2013:
Evan Lisle - cracked the two deep on the depth chart at guard despite being recruited at OT, but didn't go in when Jordan went down

Billy Price - recruited at DT, multi year starter at guard despite pass protection issues (which should be minimized at C, where he will hopefully really excel), you can credit Warinner for developing beyond expectations

Timothy Gardner - didn't even make it to campus(?), many wondered why he was offered

2014:
Jamarco Jones - solid first year as starting LT

Demetrius Knox - passed up by true freshman for open guard position he should have locked down no problem, highly disappointing results so far

Kyle Trout - hasn't even cracked the two deep

Marcelys Jones - bust

Brady Taylor - heir apparent at C, although Price's slide down makes that path less clear, and it's hard to say what level he's playing at

2015:
Isaiah Prince - highly publicized struggles as first year starter at RT, given his age, you hope for vast improvement this offseason

Matthew Burrell - only slightly less disappointing than Knox that he was passed by a true freshman for the open guard spot, underwhelming start to his career

Grant Schmidt - bust

Kevin Feder - project 3-Star, no impact thus far

Branden Bowen - project 3-star, I think he got in as a blocking TE in at least one game this year?

2016:
Michael Jordan - stepped in as starter at G as true freshman, unsurprising that he struggled some, bright future

Malcolm Pridgeon - injured, TBD

Tyler Gerald - TBD

Gavin Cupp - 3-Star project, TBD

Jack Wohlabaugh - 3-Star project, TBD, the heir apparent to the heir apparent that got bumped by Price at center

There are a lot of projects in there that you gave the benefit of doubt to Warinner for assuming he could develop them into solid starters, but the results were more than a little underwhelming from a recruiting standpoint.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

Better mechanics, better blocking schemes, better route trees, better in-game adjustments, better constraints.

So...... a better pizza?

 

[ant80]

In a perfect world I would prefer to see Warinner go back to coaching the OL and they terminate Studrawa but any type of move by Warinner would be seen as a demotion. I don't think Kevin Wilson is being brought in here to watch Ed Warinner call the plays. As such, either they work out some way for Warinner to stay involved in the play calling or I expect him to move on...and right now I am leaning towards the latter.

QB: Day
RB: Alford
WR: Smith (on thin ice)
TE/OC: Wilson
OL: Studrawa
DL: Johnson
LB: Davis
CB/ST/Cheerleader: Coombs
S/DC: Schiano

Wasn't Warinner the co-OC even when Herman was here? Or am I mistaken?

Regardless, I like this list, but with Coombs' added DC responsibilities, I'd like to see someone else take on ST duties.

Stud had pretty similar results to Ed with this line, with comparable talent. Also under Stud, OSU picked up Davis, Moretti and Myers (obviously they lost Moretti later). Recruiting was rather lackluster under Ed, especially when you factor in the high volume of busts.

2012 (how much Warinner has to do with this class is debatable):

...

There are a lot of projects in there that you gave the benefit of doubt to Warinner for assuming he could develop them into solid starters, but the results were more than a little underwhelming from a recruiting standpoint.

In response to the above two posts, I'd like to point out that we had less than 5 tackles of 1000+ yard back Hyde in 2013, which was with Bollman's recruits. And the first TFL of Hyde came in the 10th or 11th game, if I remember correctly. That's not on Hyde. That's on the OL. Warinner's ability to take Bollman's recruits and transform them into the dominant slobs was the reason why we call him "The Tao of the Slobs" now. I don't think it is accurate of fair to take the worst OL in Meyer's tenure and call those results "similar" to the previous four years under Warinner, even the 2012 season's OL. Stud has the benefit of doubt as an OL coach at tOSU because of Beck this year, and the same applies to his tenure at the same job at LSU due to Miles' offensive ineptitude, but I think he has a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to catch up with the job Warinner did as the OL coach.

But recruiting wise, I agree that Warinner might be lackluster in evaluation. JMO.

 

[jwinslow]

In response to the above two posts, I'd like to point out that we had less than 5 tackles of 1000+ yard back Hyde in 2013, which was with Bollman's recruits. And the first TFL of Hyde came in the 10th or 11th game, if I remember correctly. That's not on Hyde. That's on the OL. Warinner's ability to take Bollman's recruits and transform them into the dominant slobs was the reason why we call him "The Tao of the Slobs" now. I don't think it is accurate of fair to take the worst OL in Meyer's tenure and call those results "similar" to the previous four years under Warinner, even the 2012 season's OL. Stud has the benefit of doubt as an OL coach at tOSU because of Beck this year, and the same applies to his tenure at the same job at LSU due to Miles' offensive ineptitude, but I think he has a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to catch up with the job Warinner did as the OL coach..

I'm not equating the two. I'm saying that the 2015 and 2016 OL were pretty similar in talent and flaws, despite two different line coaches. I think that is much more scheme driven.

 

[Buckeye86]

I'm not equating the two. I'm saying that the 2015 and 2016 OL were pretty similar in talent and flaws, despite two different line coaches. I think that is much more scheme driven.

It's hard to block 7 guys blitzing with 5 linemen- especially when the QB can't find the check down receiver or there's not a checkdown receiver in the first place.

It's also tough blocking 8 guys in the box when they know you haven't hit a pass over the middle all season and are crashing into the backfield on every play.

 

[zincfinger]

Stud had pretty similar results to Ed with this line, with comparable talent. Also under Stud, OSU picked up Davis, Moretti and Myers (obviously they lost Moretti later). Recruiting was rather lackluster under Ed, especially when you factor in the high volume of busts.

Do you attribute the high volume of busts to poor recruiting/evaluation, poor development, or just bad luck amplified by the difficulty in projecting O-line prospects?

 

[calibuck]

Kinda sorry to see the 2016 OLine just use starters (except in mop up). Didn't seem like anyone got in until the game was safe in hand. Then when the Clemson game, an OL went down the replacement looked like his feet were in cement. Either the 2's were quite inept, enough so that could not be trusted when game was in doubt, or Warriner's earlier recruits were not as glorious as seen to be at the time. Didn't develop, dunno. It's a big thing to rotate the DL, but the Oline seems to be on the field almost of the time, so of course they get very tired. I get that they go five feet forward at the most (to the LBs), or hold in place on pass protect, while the DL is charging after the QB every play. Still don't believe that enough has been done to develop the 2's. Probable that several (3 or more), are counseled to move on, or take a medical. Not trying to rumor monger, just not sure whether it was poor coaching/development, or players that didn't live up to hype. Either way, some changes have to be made. Go Bucks.

 

[Onebuckfan]

Kinda sorry to see the 2016 OLine just use starters (except in mop up). Didn't seem like anyone got in until the game was safe in hand. Then when the Clemson game, an OL went down the replacement looked like his feet were in cement. Either the 2's were quite inept, enough so that could not be trusted when game was in doubt, or Warriner's earlier recruits were not as glorious as seen to be at the time. Didn't develop, dunno. It's a big thing to rotate the DL, but the Oline seems to be on the field almost of the time, so of course they get very tired. I get that they go five feet forward at the most (to the LBs), or hold in place on pass protect, while the DL is charging after the QB every play. Still don't believe that enough has been done to develop the 2's. Probable that several (3 or more), are counseled to move on, or take a medical. Not trying to rumor monger, just not sure whether it was poor coaching/development, or players that didn't live up to hype. Either way, some changes have to be made. Go Bucks.

There has to be more competition on the OL..nothing motivates you more than someone busting their ass to get your job.

 

[pnuts34]

Kinda sorry to see the 2016 OLine just use starters (except in mop up). Didn't seem like anyone got in until the game was safe in hand. Then when the Clemson game, an OL went down the replacement looked like his feet were in cement. Either the 2's were quite inept, enough so that could not be trusted when game was in doubt, or Warriner's earlier recruits were not as glorious as seen to be at the time. Didn't develop, dunno. It's a big thing to rotate the DL, but the Oline seems to be on the field almost of the time, so of course they get very tired. I get that they go five feet forward at the most (to the LBs), or hold in place on pass protect, while the DL is charging after the QB every play. Still don't believe that enough has been done to develop the 2's. Probable that several (3 or more), are counseled to move on, or take a medical. Not trying to rumor monger, just not sure whether it was poor coaching/development, or players that didn't live up to hype. Either way, some changes have to be made. Go Bucks.

This is just from what I've heard, and anyone can feel free to correct me. But I had always heard that O line should almost always keep the same guys in due to the guys working in rhythm and constantly rotating would throw that off. A guy here or there may see a few series, but usually the same 5 start for the entire season. As opposed to the D line, where you can be a little more freewheeling and your only purpose is to get to the QB, create penetration, not get beat to the outside, not lose leverage, etc. As long as the backups can keep that up, then a D line can be rotated. So keeping the same 5 O line isn't much of a surprise, but the backups SHOULD be prepared to play on a moments notice. Our backups did look ill prepared, and idk if they were over rated or if coach Stud didn't put enough time with them in his first year.

 

[LitlBuck]

Kinda sorry to see the 2016 OLine just use starters (except in mop up). Didn't seem like anyone got in until the game was safe in hand. Then when the Clemson game, an OL went down the replacement looked like his feet were in cement. Either the 2's were quite inept, enough so that could not be trusted when game was in doubt, or Warriner's earlier recruits were not as glorious as seen to be at the time. Didn't develop, dunno.

I was thinking the exact same thing after the Clemson game. This past season when we played Rutgers, Maryland, and some other teams and we were way out in front Meyer/Warriner could have substituted the entire 2nd OL to give them some reps. I know that in this day and age of the BCS it is important to blow out teams but I also think it is important to build depth.

I am not saying that you need to put in your backup players with your first team offense but in some of the games this past season and in other seasons we could have put in our entire 2nd team OL for the entire 4th quarter and we probably still what have put points on the board. I just think that it is very important to build depth because you never know what it is going to be needed.