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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Note, I did not say that Howard lost the game. However, he also did not win the game. For example: Joe Germaine in the 1997 Rose Bowl; Craig Krenzel with Holy Buckeye! and 4th-and-14; Troy Smith versus scUM (especially 2005); Braxton Miller to Devin Smith to beat Wisconsin in 2011; JT Barrett's 4th quarter heroics against Penn State in 2017; ditto for Dwayne Haskins in 2018; even the much-maligned Kyle McCord led an improbable game-winning drive against Notre Dame last season. I could name others, but you get the point.

Yes, the defense stunk, the special teams made a costly mistake, and coaching staff had issues with play calling and time management. But despite all that, the Buckeye offense had the ball down one at their own 25-yard line with 1:47 left on the clock, and Will Howard had the chance to make a statement. What did he do? First play of the drive he takes a sack which cost the Buckeyes a very valuable 9 yards and an even more valuable 26 seconds – the chance of scoring now becomes much more difficult. Howard battles back and gets the team into field goal range with 32 seconds left. At this point, Ohio State should win the game, but an unfortunate penalty and some clock shenanigans set Ohio State back to the Oregon 38-yard line with just 6 seconds to go – not Howard's fault, but wouldn't those lost 9 yards and 26 seconds look pretty good right now? With the game on the line, Howard now has only two options – a short pass and a time out to set up the potential game winning field goal, or try for Holy Buckeye 2.0. Of course he does neither and instead takes off running as soon as he feels the pressure, a move which runs out the clock and "loses" the game.

And lets not forget.... 3:37 left in the 3rd quarter and the Buckeye defense finally does its job and stops Oregon on 4th-and-goal from the 2-yard line to preserve a 28-22 lead. Ohio State has all the momentum and another score might put the game away. The Buckeye offense methodically moves out to the Oregon 27-yard line where there now face 3rd-and-3. No third down is ever easy but this one is very makable. What does Howard do? He fumbles the snap, loses 10 yards, drive killed, momentum gone.

Did Will Howard lose the game? No. But he did not play like a champion in crunch time and that certainly contributed to the loss.

For as much as we hear about “what a veteran “ he is the guy sure makes a lot of very rookie mistakes
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Note, I did not say that Howard lost the game. However, he also did not win the game. For example: Joe Germaine in the 1997 Rose Bowl; Craig Krenzel with Holy Buckeye! and 4th-and-14; Troy Smith versus scUM (especially 2005); Braxton Miller to Devin Smith to beat Wisconsin in 2011; JT Barrett's 4th quarter heroics against Penn State in 2017; ditto for Dwayne Haskins in 2018; even the much-maligned Kyle McCord led an improbable game-winning drive against Notre Dame last season. I could name others, but you get the point.

Yes, the defense stunk, the special teams made a costly mistake, and coaching staff had issues with play calling and time management. But despite all that, the Buckeye offense had the ball down one at their own 25-yard line with 1:47 left on the clock, and Will Howard had the chance to make a statement. What did he do? First play of the drive he takes a sack which cost the Buckeyes a very valuable 9 yards and an even more valuable 26 seconds – the chance of scoring now becomes much more difficult. Howard battles back and gets the team into field goal range with 32 seconds left. At this point, Ohio State should win the game, but an unfortunate penalty and some clock shenanigans set Ohio State back to the Oregon 38-yard line with just 6 seconds to go – not Howard's fault, but wouldn't those lost 9 yards and 26 seconds look pretty good right now? With the game on the line, Howard now has only two options – a short pass and a time out to set up the potential game winning field goal, or try for Holy Buckeye 2.0. Of course he does neither and instead takes off running as soon as he feels the pressure, a move which runs out the clock and "loses" the game.

And lets not forget.... 3:37 left in the 3rd quarter and the Buckeye defense finally does its job and stops Oregon on 4th-and-goal from the 2-yard line to preserve a 28-22 lead. Ohio State has all the momentum and another score might put the game away. The Buckeye offense methodically moves out to the Oregon 27-yard line where there now face 3rd-and-3. No third down is ever easy but this one is very makable. What does Howard do? He fumbles the snap, loses 10 yards, drive killed, momentum gone.

Did Will Howard lose the game? No. But he did not play like a champion in crunch time and that certainly contributed to the loss.
Point well made. Wouldn’t it have been great instead of Howard throwing where we got the OPI if we would have run the ball. No need to throw there. It also helps when a coach puts their players in the best position to win.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

LJ produced back to back NFL Defensive Rookie of the Years in 2020 and 2021 with Bosa and Young (who was a Heisman finalist and broke the school sack record). LJ has produced NFL linemen his entire career UNTIL the Kerry Coombs experiment disaster and then the hiring Knowles.

And we have heard rumblings over the years that Knowles and LJ have disagreements on the defense, to keep it lightly.

The lack of pressure is schematic and all on Knowles. He was terrified of Gabriel's scrambling ability so he trying to bring pressure from the outsides to contain him. Yet, the few times we brought pressure early in the 3rd directly in Gabriel's face it worked. Then we stopped.

Knowles relies on mis-direction before the snap. It's easy to stop a pass rush when you know there are only going to be 3 or 4 coming for the QB. Every. Single. Down.
That’s easily 4 years without a dominant pass rusher. Someone who can beat a guy off the snap and get to the QB. Look at how many times our Dline is stood up or pushed back. There’s no dog on that line. Curry has promise and would also like to see more of Jackson.

I also didn’t understand why we stopped bringing pressure and don’t disagree that Knowles is very passive in his approach. I was never sold on Knowles from day 1. That still doesn’t change the fact that are Dline is and has been an issue against the top tier teams.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Good news is this is not, at all, a harmful loss. By 1 on the road (and across the country) against #3? Meh.

Unfuck the gaping problems and plow forward. Beat the Weasels, win the Conference. Let the rest play out. Shruggles.

Sing it. Jesus, it’s not like the other team isn’t allowed to be really fucking good too. There’s issues to be fixed, but there’s nothing anywhere in life that doesn’t have shit that can be fixed. And the ‘if we don’t win every time we step of the field mentality’ is going to leave a LOT of people very disappointed.

Like so many things in life, it’s how you respond to adversity that makes up a significant part of your character.

Let’s see what kind of character this team has before we just rinse our hands of them. After disappointing loses I always used to ask my teams how they felt… and if it felt good. If the didn’t like how they felt, they were in control of changing that next time and it starts with what they do between now and the next game. 100% sure that same thought is being shared with those guys.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Can’t put this game on Will in my opinion. He played well enough for the team to win. He didn’t turn the ball, over and made good decisions. Also was down his starting LT.

This game is on Knowles/Burke/and the defense. Lot’s of NIL money on that side of the ball and it shit the bed.
Note, I did not say that Howard lost the game. However, he also did not win the game. For example: Joe Germaine in the 1997 Rose Bowl; Craig Krenzel with Holy Buckeye! and 4th-and-14; Troy Smith versus scUM (especially 2005); Braxton Miller to Devin Smith to beat Wisconsin in 2011; JT Barrett's 4th quarter heroics against Penn State in 2017; ditto for Dwayne Haskins in 2018; even the much-maligned Kyle McCord led an improbable game-winning drive against Notre Dame last season. I could name others, but you get the point.

Yes, the defense stunk, the special teams made a costly mistake, and coaching staff had issues with play calling and time management. But despite all that, the Buckeye offense had the ball down one at their own 25-yard line with 1:47 left on the clock, and Will Howard had the chance to make a statement. What did he do? First play of the drive he takes a sack which cost the Buckeyes a very valuable 9 yards and an even more valuable 26 seconds – the chance of scoring now becomes much more difficult. Howard battles back and gets the team into field goal range with 32 seconds left. At this point, Ohio State should win the game, but an unfortunate penalty and some clock shenanigans set Ohio State back to the Oregon 38-yard line with just 6 seconds to go – not Howard's fault, but wouldn't those lost 9 yards and 26 seconds look pretty good right now? With the game on the line, Howard now has only two options – a short pass and a time out to set up the potential game winning field goal, or try for Holy Buckeye 2.0. Of course he does neither and instead takes off running as soon as he feels the pressure, a move which runs out the clock and "loses" the game.

And lets not forget.... 3:37 left in the 3rd quarter and the Buckeye defense finally does its job and stops Oregon on 4th-and-goal from the 2-yard line to preserve a 28-22 lead. Ohio State has all the momentum and another score might put the game away. The Buckeye offense methodically moves out to the Oregon 27-yard line where they now face 3rd-and-3. No third down is ever easy but this one is very makable. What does Howard do? He fumbles the snap, loses 10 yards, drive killed, momentum gone.

Did Will Howard lose the game? No. But he did not play like a champion in crunch time and that certainly contributed to the loss.
Upvote 0

Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

LJ produced back to back NFL Defensive Rookie of the Years in 2020 and 2021 with Bosa and Young (who was a Heisman finalist and broke the school sack record). LJ has produced NFL linemen his entire career UNTIL the Kerry Coombs experiment disaster and then the hiring Knowles.

And we have heard rumblings over the years that Knowles and LJ have disagreements on the defense, to keep it lightly.

The lack of pressure is schematic and all on Knowles. He was terrified of Gabriel's scrambling ability so he trying to bring pressure from the outsides to contain him. Yet, the few times we brought pressure early in the 3rd directly in Gabriel's face it worked. Then we stopped.

Knowles relies on mis-direction before the snap. It's easy to stop a pass rush when you know there are only going to be 3 or 4 coming for the QB. Every. Single. Down.
You won't find a bigger Knowles hater than me here, but I'm sorry LJ has to take the blame for the lack of pass rush. 3 five star DEs in a Row, Harrison, Sawyer, JTT all have no pass rushing ability it's absurd how they all pretty much wound up not fulfilling their potencial, that can't be solely on Knowles. In fact given their potencial I'm not sure you can't say they weren't a bit of a bust in terms of what we expected from them. The last elite pass rusher we had was Chase in 2019, it's been far too long given our standard in recruiting.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

At some point you have to rip the bandaid off and move on from LJ. I would argue it should’ve been done at the end of last season. Yeah, you may lose some recruits but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

LJ produced back to back NFL Defensive Rookie of the Years in 2020 and 2021 with Bosa and Young (who was a Heisman finalist and broke the school sack record). LJ has produced NFL linemen his entire career UNTIL the Kerry Coombs experiment disaster and then the hiring Knowles.

And we have heard rumblings over the years that Knowles and LJ have disagreements on the defense, to keep it lightly.

The lack of pressure is schematic and all on Knowles. He was terrified of Gabriel's scrambling ability so he trying to bring pressure from the outsides to contain him. Yet, the few times we brought pressure early in the 3rd directly in Gabriel's face it worked. Then we stopped.

Knowles relies on mis-direction before the snap. It's easy to stop a pass rush when you know there are only going to be 3 or 4 coming for the QB. Every. Single. Down.
Upvote 0

Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

The refs don't get to see slow motion. In game that was as clear an OPI as you're ever going to see.

I don't agree, given that I found the DPI rule, that it was defensive pass interference at all. It didn't meet any of the criteria. And there's no illegal contact rule in College (that's an NFL rule) so again, pretty clearly this was an OPI only.
The refs weren't the reason why we lost, in fact that first TD drive Oregon should've had an INT, luckily for us no one bothered to review/challenge the play.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

The refs don't get to see slow motion. In game that was as clear an OPI as you're ever going to see.

I don't agree, given that I found the DPI rule, that it was defensive pass interference at all. It didn't meet any of the criteria. And there's no illegal contact rule in College (that's an NFL rule) so again, pretty clearly this was an OPI only.
Reading more on the rule……agreed. DPI can only be called after the ball is thrown. Pushing off is not the same as holding…..therefore no defensive wrongdoing here. As I said, JJ clearly pushed off and that was OPI.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

I agree that JJ pushed off and that it illegal. But watching the play in slow motion, the DB pushed off first. You say it’s never called and I agree. But it is, by definition in the rule book, defensive pass interference. Off setting.
The refs don't get to see slow motion. In game that was as clear an OPI as you're ever going to see.

I don't agree, given that I found the DPI rule, that it was defensive pass interference at all. It didn't meet any of the criteria. And there's no illegal contact rule in College (that's an NFL rule) so again, pretty clearly this was an OPI only.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

ehh...that never ever gets called.....again, the defender is considered to have a right to a spot. Believe what you want but that call was 100% correct in my view.

The OPI was very clear.
I agree that JJ pushed off and that it illegal. But watching the play in slow motion, the DB pushed off first. You say it’s never called and I agree. But it is, by definition in the rule book, defensive pass interference. Off setting.
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2024 tOSU Defense Discussion

Too me this is what a Knowles defense is. It’s the way it was when he was at the other OsU. It’s fine against leaser talent, but winning a championship with it without a world class offense to actually win the game is a pipe dream.
This. Also, on the defensive side of the ball, it's completely unrealistic to have a scheme were every player needs to have world class skill, needs to be perfectly in position every single snap, needs to play perfectly every single game. You won't have that even with the 01 Ravens .
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

So really it DPI followed by OPI. There is no place in the rule that allowed the Duck DB to initiate contact…..but he did. Bad call.
ehh...that never ever gets called.....again, the defender is considered to have a right to a spot. Believe what you want but that call was 100% correct in my view. Here's the DPI rule:

rulebook said:
Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable. Defensive pass interference occurs only after a legal forward pass is thrown[.]

The defender didn't impede Smith's attempt to catch the ball and clearly didn't prevent Smith from catching it.

The OPI was very clear.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Here's the rule:




There's always a fudge factor when it comes to jams but really the defender is usually considered to have the right to the spot they are standing in so that never gets called unless he holds the receiver, etc. When Smith pushes off, he significantly changes the direction of the defender (the extended arm killed him), which made it a pretty easy call.
So really it DPI followed by OPI. There is no place in the rule that allowed the Duck DB to initiate contact…..but he did. Bad call.
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Game Thread #2 tOSU at #3 Oregon, Sat. Oct. 12, 7:30 pm ET, NBC

Serious question: what is the rule if the DB pushes first and the WR pushes back?

Here's the rule:

rulebook said:
Offensive pass interference is contact by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone that interferes with a Team B player during a legal forward pass play in which the forward pass crosses the neutral zone. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents.


There's always a fudge factor when it comes to jams but really the defender is usually considered to have the right to the spot they are standing in so that never gets called unless he holds the receiver, etc. When Smith pushes off, he significantly changes the direction of the defender (the extended arm killed him), which made it a pretty easy call.
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