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What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

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What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

  • Talent / Players

    Votes: 29 11.8%

  • Scheme / Coaching

    Votes: 127 51.8%

  • Both are substandard

    Votes: 71 29.0%

  • Neither - B1G offenses are unstoppable

    Votes: 10 4.1%

  • I don't care - just fire Fickell!

    Votes: 8 3.3%
  • Total voters
    245
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I voted scheme/coaching mostly because I refuse to believe that a bunch of 3, 4, and 5-star recruits can't be coached up. As for the coaching, though, I'm not sure I can point to anyone specific. I suppose the secondary was a major letdown this year, so perhaps we can blame Withers and Coombs? Then again, the LBs haven't exactly progressed as expected either, and the playcalling has been suspect as the players have looked lost so often, so I gotta think Fickell is part of the problem. As others have said, I think Vrabel has done a nice job with the D Line. Last I looked, they led the nation in sacks and did rather well in the TFL and Rushing Defense categories as well.

I'll hang up and listen to your response. :lol:
 
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bukIpower said:
Bryant may have been a vocal guy for us and I hope this isn't taken as bashing but if he didn't help our defense all of last year and certainly didn't help against cal and Wisconsin this year. Then IMO he wasn't going to be a difference maker for our team this year if he would've been in. Better then Pitt? Yeah, but his play was not the difference between great and poor defense.

IMO next year with bigger and longer DBS we will be better then this years secondary. Burrows, Powell, and bell are All going to be different than this years.

Heck both Powell and burrows are over 6 foot and over 210. Now add vonn at secondary and it's going to be a different breed back there. Now let's just get these guys some coaching.
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LOL Bryant didn't help us last year. What about his game-end plays on pass defense for Cal, Purdue, Wisconsin and the forced fumble against Gardner? Who would've made that play against Wisconsin's TE this year? Anyone?

Dude was also one of our better and more explosive tacklers. Just read the freakin' bio bro

he is coming off a fine junior campaign that saw him earn second-team all-Big Ten Conference honors ... his 70 tackles trailed only Ryan Shazier's 115, and his 13 passes defended (12 PBUs and one interception) ranked sixth in the Big Ten ...
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RB07OSU said:
This is what I was thinking...the play just could not have got any worse from that position after Bryant got hurt. Even if Bell played poorly, there would be no drop off and he would be getting valuable experience. I understand giving the spot to the senior when it seems as if its even, but there has to be adjustments when someone repeatedly does not perform. Then there is Grant who I thought played fairly well to start the year and appeared to regress as the season went along...on the other hand Burrows looked to be coming on strong. I definitely would have liked to see Burrows some. Regardless, I really hope to see a heavy dose of Burrows, Bell, and maybe Apple in the bowl to get us ready for next year. You get valuable experience and I just don't see how there could be a performance drop off.
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Yeah remember NW's first drive in the second quarter? #3 got lost in zone defense for a 25 yd passing play, then gets absolutely trucked on the next play, and two plays later had a clean shot at the QB to make the tackle but bares makes contact and gives up a TD. Sad part is I'm not seeing anything getting better as the year progressed. And it's not the kid's fault, the coaches are responsible for putting kids in the right situations for the team to succeed.

You think Dantonio would've rode out the year without trying anyone else back there? Heck, I remember the '02 Cincy game where it was basically a CB audition where we had EJ Underwood (true freshman) and Chris Gamble (full time WR) basically all trying out until someone actually sticks. It's what great coaches do, and we don't have great coaches on the defensive side of the ball right now.
 
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WaitingforKickoff said:
LOL Bryant didn't help us last year. What about his game-end plays on pass defense for Cal, Purdue, Wisconsin and the forced fumble against Gardner? Who would've made that play against Wisconsin's TE this year? Anyone?

Dude was also one of our better and more explosive tacklers. Just read the freakin' bio bro
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I hope you're being sarcastic about Bryant's play, because he was one of our biggest liabilities in pass coverage. The biggest asset Bryant brought to the team was being a vocal leader and a good tackler. I don't see the defense playing much better with him not injured, he also would've been burned. Yes he had a number of big plays in his career and I like many fans love him for that. But he has also even more bone headed plays where he tries to do too much. Just look at posts enforce this season, and the collective gripe of us all, was for christian to just make a fundamental play and not try to be on a highlight. All of the talk of Christians absence all year has been baffling to me because pass coverage was never his strong suit and that's been the achilles heel of the defense all year. Not sayinfhe wouldn't have been better than having Pitt brown out there, but Bryant still would've allowed big plays based on past performance.
 
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pnuts34 said:
I hope you're being sarcastic about Bryant's play, because he was one of our biggest liabilities in pass coverage. The biggest asset Bryant brought to the team was being a vocal leader and a good tackler. I don't see the defense playing much better with him not injured, he also would've been burned. Yes he had a number of big plays in his career and I like many fans love him for that. But he has also even more bone headed plays where he tries to do too much. Just look at posts enforce this season, and the collective gripe of us all, was for christian to just make a fundamental play and not try to be on a highlight. All of the talk of Christians absence all year has been baffling to me because pass coverage was never his strong suit and that's been the achilles heel of the defense all year. Not sayinfhe wouldn't have been better than having Pitt brown out there, but Bryant still would've allowed big plays based on past performance.
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70 tackles. 13 PBUs (6th in the B10) last season. Pass defense plays ended games vs. Cal, Purdue and Wisconsin. What about any of this don't you understand.
 
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WaitingforKickoff said:
70 tackles. 13 PBUs (6th in the B10) last season. Pass defense plays ended games vs. Cal, Purdue and Wisconsin. What about any of this don't you understand.
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The games against decent competition that Christian was in(cal and wisky), those QBs had close to 400 and 300yds. Stave doesn't even play in a pass oriented offense yet had 295yds(his second highest yardage output of the season). Osu had the 76th best pass defense allowing close to 250yds/GM. What about this don't you understand? Or I guess those are great numbers in your head...
 
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pnuts34 said:
The games against decent competition that Christian was in(cal and wisky), those QBs had close to 400 and 300yds. Stave doesn't even play in a pass oriented offense yet had 295yds(his second highest yardage output of the season). Osu had the 76th best pass defense allowing close to 250yds/GM. What about this don't you understand? Or I guess those are great numbers in your head...
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Yeah, I guess it was Bryant who pushed the Cal receiver into a 70 yd TD reception and getting beat on the fade route in the endzone.....LOL. Bryant ended two drives in this year's Cal game: INT and forth down PBU in the endzone. He ended last year's Cal game with an INT. Let's try not going full retard here and blame Bryant for our pass defense.
 
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WaitingforKickoff said:
Um....you could also say that about Roby and Shazier. Just b/c the group as a whole didn't play up to standard doesn't diminish the individual contributions.
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No I really can't. Because these guys weren't off the field for very long so I have little frame of reference for how much poorer we'd have been without them.

I like Bryant, but he won't solve the problem.
 
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WaitingforKickoff said:
Yeah, I guess it was Bryant who pushed the Cal receiver into a 70 yd TD reception and getting beat on the fade route in the endzone.....LOL. Bryant ended two drives in this year's Cal game: INT and forth down PBU in the endzone. He ended last year's Cal game with an INT. Let's try not going full retard here and blame Bryant for our pass defense.
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And let's not go full retard and act like CB hasn't been a liability in coverage either. He had a game ending INT after we were getting torched for 288yds, but you seem to forget that. Bryant has had numerous bone headed plays to counter your one InT. and everyone knows it. Let's not be foolish and act like he was great in coverage when that's false. He's better than Pitt, but it's not like our defense still wouldn't have given up a bunch of yards to numerous average big 10 teams with him in the game. Cal was one game...
 
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pnuts34 said:
And let's not go full retard and act like CB hasn't been a liability in coverage either.
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You can stop right there. This is what you said word by word:

I hope you're being sarcastic about Bryant's play, because he was one of our biggest liabilities in pass coverage.
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If he's one of the biggest liabilities, who's made more plays in pass defense? Barnett? Brown? Grant? Perry? Powell? Kinda retarded to put the season's struggles on Christian Bryant when the dude barely played a fourth of the season and made plays when he was in there. Cal was one game....but how many games did he play in?
 
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WaitingforKickoff said:
You can stop right there. This is what you said word by word:



If he's one of the biggest liabilities, who's made more plays in pass defense? Barnett? Brown? Grant? Perry? Powell? Kinda retarded to put the season's struggles on Christian Bryant when the dude barely played a fourth of the season and made plays when he was in there. Cal was one game....but how many games did he play in?
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Ok I guess youre inching closer to going full retard. You mentioned Bryant's stats from last season, and I provided you with the pass defense ranking for last year, which was 76th. I didn't put this seasons struggles on Christian, I specifically mentioned the 2 big games he played in, wisky and cal, and neither game was stellar by our defense specifically by our DBs. I'm not trying to put everything on Bryant, but you keep blindly defending him like he as our best DB. His loss was felt more as a leader than it was in pass coverage, which was not his strong suit. He was stronger against the run.
 
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