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- Thread starter LordJeffBuck
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stowfan
Assistant Coach
Only a couple on your list I would disagree with; class of 2010, you have both Moore and Baldwin down as busts. Granted Moore is nowhere to be found, but Baldwin is our backup left tackle. Baldwin may end up our starting left tackle next year.
Also, I think Bennett has played as well as anyone this year. I think he deserves a star if you're giving one to Spence and Bosa. It may be another two years before Urban is stocked with the players he wants.
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Since "Nothing" wasn't an option here, I didn't vote.
Guys, you gotta realize a simple fact if you are an adult and have followed this program for any amount of time. This is "THE" Ohio State University, one of the if not the greatest football programs in the country. Every week we take our talents up against overmatched opponents who want to beat us a helluva lot more than we want to beat them. For most teams on our schedule, playing the Buckeyes is their BCS National Championship game. On top of that, we're playing good teams in the Big Ten that are loaded with talent, that is not as good as ours, but with motivation "brings" it to us. All that's accomplished since Coach Meyer got here is an undefeated program. Enjoy it! Continue to Embrace it. And quit bitching about how we win games.
Peace
Guys, you gotta realize a simple fact if you are an adult and have followed this program for any amount of time. This is "THE" Ohio State University, one of the if not the greatest football programs in the country. Every week we take our talents up against overmatched opponents who want to beat us a helluva lot more than we want to beat them. For most teams on our schedule, playing the Buckeyes is their BCS National Championship game. On top of that, we're playing good teams in the Big Ten that are loaded with talent, that is not as good as ours, but with motivation "brings" it to us. All that's accomplished since Coach Meyer got here is an undefeated program. Enjoy it! Continue to Embrace it. And quit bitching about how we win games.
Peace
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buckeye4ever21
Heisman
You failed to point out that we were worse in basically every statistical category on pass defense. People are saying that there is a lot of talent at skill positions and I just don't see it, there aren't a lot of dominating QB's, RB's or WR's on other teams. This is a down year in the big ten, there should be more domination.
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ShowMeBuck
You know what? Chicken butt.
Both is my vote, which stands currently around 30%. Not sure why it isn't higher. As LJB showed with the player list, we have too few stars, too many misses, etc. But even Urb has said in his last 2 pressers that he was surprised at how slow we have been to react in-game to new looks from the opposing offense. I think Fick is a good recruiter and not a bad LB coach but I'm not sold on his in-game management.
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OSUK
Sometimes lucid, mostly confused
We do have to keep in mind that this program has won 19 consecutive games with a defense that is leaky. I believe (others on here disagree) that the style and degree of dynamism in an offense affects the defense directly. Sparty is a great example in terms of an offense helping a defense and Indiana is an example of an offense hurting a defense. The very elite teams have dynamic O's and great D's, but it's hard to get that combination in CFB. You have to have the right mix of good coaching, and player talent and player experience.
After looking at LordJeff's breakdown, I think I have been over-estimating the talent and depth on the defensive side of the ball. I think the DL is in very good shape with talent and depth. The LB's were an area we knew was going to be a problem. Where the Bucks were supposed to be strong - in the secondary - hasn't panned out due to CB's injury, Roby's suspension and struggles, etc. I have considered that they also may be trying to do their jobs + trying to keep an eye on helping the LB's with their coverage. In essence, that there isn't trust between the units to do their jobs. Secondary play is hard enough just getting your responsibilities handled. If your attention is divided, things aren't going to go well.
That said, there is still a coaching/scheme aspect to this. We made Colter and Simien look like John Unitas with soft coverage. Some of the receivers in that game didn't have a defender within 10 yards of them. Finally D Grant made a great read, came off the deeper guy, broke on the ball to the nearer reciever, and got a pick. My thought was, "It's amazing what happens when you get yourself within arm's length of a receiver. They should try that more often."
We have played enough football at this point to know that Ohio State is not good at getting consistent pressure with a 3 or 4 man rush, and we also know that we can't cover well. I just want the coaches to pick one or the other, and it seems to me that pressure is the easier one to do. No doubt the secondary will get burned when the pressure doesn't get there, but that's happening anyway. I can live with that, but I am going to blow an artery if they choose to to not pressure or cover.
After looking at LordJeff's breakdown, I think I have been over-estimating the talent and depth on the defensive side of the ball. I think the DL is in very good shape with talent and depth. The LB's were an area we knew was going to be a problem. Where the Bucks were supposed to be strong - in the secondary - hasn't panned out due to CB's injury, Roby's suspension and struggles, etc. I have considered that they also may be trying to do their jobs + trying to keep an eye on helping the LB's with their coverage. In essence, that there isn't trust between the units to do their jobs. Secondary play is hard enough just getting your responsibilities handled. If your attention is divided, things aren't going to go well.
That said, there is still a coaching/scheme aspect to this. We made Colter and Simien look like John Unitas with soft coverage. Some of the receivers in that game didn't have a defender within 10 yards of them. Finally D Grant made a great read, came off the deeper guy, broke on the ball to the nearer reciever, and got a pick. My thought was, "It's amazing what happens when you get yourself within arm's length of a receiver. They should try that more often."
We have played enough football at this point to know that Ohio State is not good at getting consistent pressure with a 3 or 4 man rush, and we also know that we can't cover well. I just want the coaches to pick one or the other, and it seems to me that pressure is the easier one to do. No doubt the secondary will get burned when the pressure doesn't get there, but that's happening anyway. I can live with that, but I am going to blow an artery if they choose to to not pressure or cover.
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ShowMeBuck
You know what? Chicken butt.
See the 2006 NC Florida Gators as example which is perfect because Urb is the constant. tOSU had a pretty good offense that year and UF shut us down while still putting up 41 points of their own. I think it's a weak excuse to say we can't have a good defense becuase of our style of offense. Oregon is a bigger threat to win it all this year because their defense is better than years past. Their offense is still solid, the defense for them has just improved. In the game last week Iowa had long sustained drives in the first half while our offense sat on the sideline watching. Having a weak defense that allows another team to eat up the clock keeps our dynamic offense off the field. That's how we beat Oregon in the 2010 Rose Bowl. We flat out owned time of possession. To me, we have turned conservative on offense at times this year because with a great O Line and Hyde being the bell cow that he is we just don't see the point in being more aggressive on offense and potentially putting undo pressure on our defense. Better to grind along even though we loose style points. The hidden advantage to all this however is that we are becoming a very unique offense and a potentially dangerous one: a team that can strike quick but also a team that can ground and pound. That's not something you see very often.
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
what happened against Iowa at 11 Warriors. Pretty got analysis. Certainly better than mine.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/10/27581/ohio-state-v-iowa-defensive-breakdown#more
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/10/27581/ohio-state-v-iowa-defensive-breakdown#more
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Actually rewatched the game today and here are my notes on the defense on the 1st half:
1) Kept seeing us shade our LBs over the weak side on all of Iowa's strong sets early on...no idea why we were doing that, they could run the stretch to the strong side at will. That is schematic, especially when Grant doesn't have the speed to get to his gap when he is already at a disadvantage.
2) Vrable is right...the kicked the shit out of us up front. Sure they ran strong sets we weren't ready for but they weren't even standing their ground. Spence was getting pushed around by TEs and not keeping the edge (he was noticeably the worst performer in the 1st half, maybe should have had Bosa and Washington out there), Hale was getting pancaked by his man, and Bennett wasn't manning up to his double teams. Woody Hayes rolled over in his grave with how soft we played. Bosa was the only guy I saw doing his job in the first half. All we needed was a little push to delay the ball carriers read and we weren't getting it very often. We don't have the back 7 for our front 4 to be able to play like that. It is a sad truth but the young DL has to carry this defense.
3) LBs were missing their reads and getting lost in coverage, mostly Perry and Grant...guys are huge liabilities in the passing game. Also just sitting there and waiting to be blocked...be aggressive and freaking try to make a play! If you screw up, screw up going 100%. I hate to say it but Perry has been a colossal disappointment so far this year. I know he is young and I do not want to pick on him, but he simply is not even close to getting the job done (really stood out in a bad way when I rewinded the defensive plays). As for Shazier...not sure if he is ready for the NFL physically. Needs to put on another 15 pounds, he constantly flies in but still gets pushed back at the point of attack.
4) With how bad Roby got hosed, I was impressed with his reaction. Clearly not happy but frankly, I might have had a piss-poor reaction. Great maturity. Speaking of which, I would have expected us to play with some real fire after that call...I didn't see it. When you lose one of your leaders, it should light a fire under your ass.
5) Pittsburgh Brown was noticeably the weak link in the secondary...Vonn Bell time and NOW. Not a lack of effort and I feel bad for the kid, but we need a change.
6) Toughness...we had them in many 3rd down situations and couldn't get off the field, that comes down to toughness of the whole defense. That is pathetic.
Here are my notes from the 2nd half:
1) Better push up front and adjusted to shade the LBs to the strong side. Did much better against the stretch runs that way.
2) Tighter coverage. Played some press on 3rd down and got them off the field...weird.
3) Reeves/Barnett can't come close to catching their tight end on that TD? wtf...awful coverage by Reeves. Watch your zone, not the QB...let him right behind him. Perfect throw by Ruddock though.
4) We got them off the field on third down. Our offense actually controls the ball really well and gets them a break, but they have to get themselves off the field first. That's why I'm good with an aggressive defense...even if they hit the big one on us, our offense isn't held off the field like they were in the first have. We had much better time of possession in the first half and that was a result of playing more aggressive.
5) Bennett really stepped it up and started getting penetration to shut down the slow developing run plays.
6) Doran Grant had great coverage for the most part all game...at this point in the season, he has played the best in the secondary. You never notice because it is nothing spectacular, but he does his 1/11th and plays lock-down coverage.
7) Love the pressure when we slide Bosa down and bring Marcus off the edge. Bosa can finesse to get there or just bullrush, love his game. Either way, funnels the QB right to Marcus.
1) Kept seeing us shade our LBs over the weak side on all of Iowa's strong sets early on...no idea why we were doing that, they could run the stretch to the strong side at will. That is schematic, especially when Grant doesn't have the speed to get to his gap when he is already at a disadvantage.
2) Vrable is right...the kicked the shit out of us up front. Sure they ran strong sets we weren't ready for but they weren't even standing their ground. Spence was getting pushed around by TEs and not keeping the edge (he was noticeably the worst performer in the 1st half, maybe should have had Bosa and Washington out there), Hale was getting pancaked by his man, and Bennett wasn't manning up to his double teams. Woody Hayes rolled over in his grave with how soft we played. Bosa was the only guy I saw doing his job in the first half. All we needed was a little push to delay the ball carriers read and we weren't getting it very often. We don't have the back 7 for our front 4 to be able to play like that. It is a sad truth but the young DL has to carry this defense.
3) LBs were missing their reads and getting lost in coverage, mostly Perry and Grant...guys are huge liabilities in the passing game. Also just sitting there and waiting to be blocked...be aggressive and freaking try to make a play! If you screw up, screw up going 100%. I hate to say it but Perry has been a colossal disappointment so far this year. I know he is young and I do not want to pick on him, but he simply is not even close to getting the job done (really stood out in a bad way when I rewinded the defensive plays). As for Shazier...not sure if he is ready for the NFL physically. Needs to put on another 15 pounds, he constantly flies in but still gets pushed back at the point of attack.
4) With how bad Roby got hosed, I was impressed with his reaction. Clearly not happy but frankly, I might have had a piss-poor reaction. Great maturity. Speaking of which, I would have expected us to play with some real fire after that call...I didn't see it. When you lose one of your leaders, it should light a fire under your ass.
5) Pittsburgh Brown was noticeably the weak link in the secondary...Vonn Bell time and NOW. Not a lack of effort and I feel bad for the kid, but we need a change.
6) Toughness...we had them in many 3rd down situations and couldn't get off the field, that comes down to toughness of the whole defense. That is pathetic.
Here are my notes from the 2nd half:
1) Better push up front and adjusted to shade the LBs to the strong side. Did much better against the stretch runs that way.
2) Tighter coverage. Played some press on 3rd down and got them off the field...weird.
3) Reeves/Barnett can't come close to catching their tight end on that TD? wtf...awful coverage by Reeves. Watch your zone, not the QB...let him right behind him. Perfect throw by Ruddock though.
4) We got them off the field on third down. Our offense actually controls the ball really well and gets them a break, but they have to get themselves off the field first. That's why I'm good with an aggressive defense...even if they hit the big one on us, our offense isn't held off the field like they were in the first have. We had much better time of possession in the first half and that was a result of playing more aggressive.
5) Bennett really stepped it up and started getting penetration to shut down the slow developing run plays.
6) Doran Grant had great coverage for the most part all game...at this point in the season, he has played the best in the secondary. You never notice because it is nothing spectacular, but he does his 1/11th and plays lock-down coverage.
7) Love the pressure when we slide Bosa down and bring Marcus off the edge. Bosa can finesse to get there or just bullrush, love his game. Either way, funnels the QB right to Marcus.
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maximumblitz
Buckeye Samurai of Big League Blitzkreig
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I've been having similar thoughts.
As awesome as that Dontre Wilson ruse / Miller-to-Brown TD was, in some ways it hurt us by putting Iowa's offense right back on the field at a time when our Defense probably could've used a breather to make some adjustments and regroup.
A lot of times it feels like we have to put shackles on the Offense and play closer to Tressel-ball in order to compensate for Defensive issues. Still, it's nice to know that they can score in a hurry if they need to - especially at the end of a half.
Overall it seems like our defense is just waiting for the opponent to beat themselves. We seem kind of average in the turnover department, and that seems to be another indication that the defense is a bit passive. We're not making them beat us by putting them under pressure.
To that end, I really hope we come out against Penn State trying to either harass the QB and/or force him to throw the ball into tight spaces. I don't think we got a sack against Iowa (if we did it had to be near the end), but they did start getting to him and put him on his back a number of times in the 2nd half forcing several bad throws that probably would've been easy 5-7yd completions in the first half. And soon enough he started making mistakes -- almost giving Doran a pick-6 and finally Powell hauling in an interception to end their final chance at scoring.
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