What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[Bleed S & G]

I brought this up a few pages back, knowing that Like has coached LBs for awhile now. My thought was the experience Vrabel brings from his playing days that could help with seeing the plays, communication, and leadership. Usually, one of the LBs is calling the plays and making adjustments on the field. I am not sure if this is happening for the Bucks right now.

Fickell has been coaching the LBers since 2004.

Carpenter, Marcus Freeman, AJ Hawk, Schlegel, Laurinaitis, Spitler, Thadd Gibson, Larry Grant, John Kerr, Tyler Moeller & Jermale Hines were originally under LFs coaching I believe, Ross Homan, Brian Rolle, Sabino, Andrew Sweat, Dorian Bell, Storm Klien, Shazier, & did a decent job of coaching Zach Boren up quickly.

 

[Woody1968]

I brought this up a few pages back, knowing that Like has coached LBs for awhile now. My thought was the experience Vrabel brings from his playing days that could help with seeing the plays, communication, and leadership. Usually, one of the LBs is calling the plays and making adjustments on the field. I am not sure if this is happening for the Bucks right now.

Luke performed this role on the field for Ohio State in 1995 and 1996.

 

[pnuts34]

Uh..NO! Powell is in his first year and doing very well. I loved Pitt Brown as a receiver. But his injury set him back and I don't know if he's the same player any more.
Besides the secondary issues seem to be more of a communication problem with coverage's getting broken.

I don't know what you've been watching, but our dbs are having more issues than a communication breakdown. And coverage has been a MAJOR issue! Powell has been average at best, lets be honest. We have a number of first year starters that have played better. And Pitt Brown is just a depth guy at this point and has been a liability in coverage. Not trying to knock the guys, but just looks at the last 3 games, and look at the big plays given up! Our coverage needs a lot of work. And a guy with over 50 tackles and 2ints would only help. But he's not here so it is what it is. Coverage and tackling have been the achilles heel of the dbs so far this season.

Btw, LJB, after your explanation I concur with your report.

 

[buckeyebri]

Fickell has been coaching the LBers since 2004.

Carpenter, Marcus Freeman, AJ Hawk, Schlegel, Laurinaitis, Spitler, Thadd Gibson, Larry Grant, John Kerr, Tyler Moeller & Jermale Hines were originally under LFs coaching I believe, Ross Homan, Brian Rolle, Sabino, Andrew Sweat, Dorian Bell, Storm Klien, Shazier, & did a decent job of coaching Zach Boren up quickly.

And I am not saying that Luke hasn't done a good job or isn't doing a good job today. Sometimes, though, change can be good for a program and bring a new and fresh perspective.

Luke performed this role on the field for Ohio State in 1995 and 1996.

Vrabel played this role for a few years in the NFL. Plus, he played under Bellichump who is considered to be a pretty good defensive mind.

 

[Dryden]

When Tressel was here, great defense...vanilla offense. It's just the opposite now.

Karmic law of the Universe. Football teams with great defenses have pedestrian offenses and vice-versa. Any gains made that upset this balance will ultimately result in suspension, injury, retirement, or free agency of all the good players.

 

[Woody1968]

I don't know, it just seems to me that people really don't want to face the fact that we have had a drop off in talent in the defensive backfield since 2010. I keep hearing about how we have all this talent, and how the problem is coaching and our "scheme," but if everyone is so talented, it shouldn't matter what scheme we are running, as the talent would compensate for it.

 

[pnuts34]

I don't know, it just seems to me that people really don't want to face the fact that we have had a drop off in talent in the defensive backfield since 2010. I keep hearing about how we have all this talent, and how the problem is coaching and our "scheme," but if everyone is so talented, it shouldn't matter what scheme we are running, as the talent would compensate for it.

I can agree with that. We have a very talented defense on paper and based on star ratings, but they're not putting it all together on the field. Yet guys who were rated lower, have played well beyond their rating, and put in work in the weight room and film room(I.e. John Simon, zach boren). We don't have the leadership, or guy or guys that hold others accountable, IMO. And that can't simply fall on one guy, Bryant, to be the only player, since it seems like the teams in front of us have multiple guys. We keep playing the way we are, and undefeated or not, we still be leapfrogged by other teams for the NC, and to be honest were not playing at NC caliber anyway. We're still just playing on a big 10 level and not ready for the elite schools out of our conference. Luckily we still have the rest of the season to play out, but these defensive coaches need to start kicking some butts, and hopefully some lights will start to go on. We're starting to see the loss of the senior leadership in a very big way along that front 7. And also, where the hell is the leadership that Roby was supposed to provide to the CBs and DBs as a whole? He himself hasn't even stepped up to an elite level and shut down his side of the field. Injury or not, a CB that's supposed to be a lottery pick should be able to stop WRs from northwestern, Wisconsin and Iowa. What would happen if we faced Oregon, mizzou, fsu, Clemson, or many of the other top 10 teams? We'd be screwed. But at least there's still time

 

[Taosman]

I don't know, it just seems to me that people really don't want to face the fact that we have had a drop off in talent in the defensive backfield since 2010. I keep hearing about how we have all this talent, and how the problem is coaching and our "scheme," but if everyone is so talented, it shouldn't matter what scheme we are running, as the talent would compensate for it.

Yes! This is why coach wants great recruiters as coaches. Talent covers a multitude of sins.

 

[buckeye4ever21]

I don't know, it just seems to me that people really don't want to face the fact that we have had a drop off in talent in the defensive backfield since 2010. I keep hearing about how we have all this talent, and how the problem is coaching and our "scheme," but if everyone is so talented, it shouldn't matter what scheme we are running, as the talent would compensate for it.

Roby's talent is in press man coverage and in run support but in the majority of games he is off the ball, how is that utilizing him correctly. Grant has great skills as well but they aren't put in great situations to succeed. Safety play has been suspect but this defense has pretty much proven that they don't perform we'll in zone schemes. Iowa's TE sets had us perplexed in the first half and those are Fickell's words. It shouldn't take an entire half to make an adjustment against a team with no real offensive talent at the skill positions.

 

[Taosman]

Karmic law of the Universe. Football teams with great defenses have pedestrian offenses and vice-versa. Any gains made that upset this balance will ultimately result in suspension, injury, retirement, or free agency of all the good players.

This slightly twisted.
More simply. It's what you give out that comes back to you. If you give love it comes back to you eventually.
If you give hate, that's what will come back to you.

 

[MD Buckeye]

I don't know, it just seems to me that people really don't want to face the fact that we have had a drop off in talent in the defensive backfield since 2010. I keep hearing about how we have all this talent, and how the problem is coaching and our "scheme," but if everyone is so talented, it shouldn't matter what scheme we are running, as the talent would compensate for it.

I originally went with scheme, but am changing my vote to talent/depth as the primary issue....when it comes to the DBs & LBs. I think @LordJeffBuck's breakdown is spot on with how players have panned out since arriving on campus. Between injuries, transfers & Meyer just trying to fill a class in 2012 (IMO several members of the '12 class don't end up here under "normal" circumstances), I think we're starting to see the results.

I don't expect that "trend" to continue. They put an emphasis on recruiting DBs in the '13 class (Apple, Bell, Burrows, Conley, Thompson, etc.), it has continued in the '14 class (Webb, Hooker, Lattimore & Smith to start) and they're already in on some top prospects in the '15 class. Same can be said regarding the LBs with the '13 class (Mitchell & Johnson) and the '14 class (Booker, Berger, Hubbard, McMillan).

Bottom line is that this defense is 19-0 over the last two years & has found ways to win games when the offense has struggled. Winning is all that matters. Now let's go kick the shit out of Penn State........

 

[jlb1705]

Freeman over Shazier, jlb?

For me, yes. To me it's close, but I remember Freeman as a steadier performer. Maybe I'm wrong there. Maybe a top five wasn't the best way to make the point I was trying to make about Shazier. The other four I listed probably comprise a top tier of elite LBs from that era at Ohio State, and after that there's a group of good LBs making up the second tier. Freeman probably belongs in that group (but leads it in my IMO) along with others like Cie Grant, Robert Reynolds, Larry Grant, Anthony Schlegel, etc. I think Shazier's production so far puts him firmly in that group, which to me doesn't support the assertion that the overall talent level is higher than it used to be on defense.

 

[Taosman]

Last year we were one guy away from a very good defense. Boren at LBer.
Are we one guy away? One LBer or safety who can run with a TE away?
Is it more than one guy?

 

[maximumblitz]

Really? You think everything is cool on the defensive side of the ball? Really? No... really??? Roby for Heisman!

In 2002, I watched Cinci nearly whip tOSU by going to the air. Then an entire national championship began vaporizing when Miami completed 15 straight passes to their TE.

Of course, I will only be satisfied when the defense outscores the opponent's offense. That is when all is cool.

Bosa for Heisman.

 

[maximumblitz]

My problem is we haven't faced any prolific offenses yet to this point. The best offense we've faced is on the practice field every day.

Indiana will help us out. They are number 9 offensively, ahead of Wisconsin who is number 10. And Wisconsin played to our strength (run defense).