What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[Taosman]

He's doing a much better job at S at a basketball school than most of our DBS at our football school... Just saying
I'd much rather have him now as a S than Pitt brown, or Tanner, or even tyvis powell.

Uh..NO! Powell is in his first year and doing very well. I loved Pitt Brown as a receiver. But his injury set him back and I don't know if he's the same player any more.
Besides the secondary issues seem to be more of a communication problem with coverage's getting broken.

 

[kippy1040]

When Tressel was here, great defense...vanilla offense. It's just the opposite now.
I think it is absolutely 100% COACHING/SCHEME. I actually think the overall talent level is better now.

Imagine this offense with a Tressel regime defense.

Are any of those coaches available....or going to be available?

In complete agreement here. There was a post or comment in this thread about "Fickell being lost without Jim Heaccock. That may some have truth behind it. There was some sort of mesh with Luke and Heacock with the Tressel regime. I would always hoped that Urban would have encouraged heacock to stick around but I could be wrong.

Vrabel seems to have a grip on his defensive line, making them understand the schemes of this but with Withers & Fickell, maybe it is another story. The further we go into the season, the opposing teams are going to gang up on our linebackers and D-Backs. I think that "IF" Urban and his staff can come up with a fix in this area we could be a much stronger defense overall. That is just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[buckeye4ever21]

Being a buckeye fan, we have been spoiled in the past with very impressive defensive players and results. The talent may be down at the linebacker position and the starting safeties currently out there aren't at the standard we've seen in the past. We have great talent at DL, starting CB and Ryan Shazier. My problem is we haven't faced any prolific offenses yet to this point. The best offense we've faced is on the practice field every day. With the talent they go against everyday, I just don't see how we don't bring a better product to the field. We aren't going to get the credit we deserve nationally until this side of the ball starts making plays.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Lordjeffbuck, I like your list and agree with a bulk of it, but its hard to put a label on most of the 2012 class since they're not even done playing their 2nd years, so to me they all should be unknowns as well. Some have played better than others, but none to the point where they're huge factors, outside of spence, washington and schutt.
And though we all habe an infatuation with joey bosa, and he may be a future all American, he's not a star just yet, he's barely played a half of an entire college
season.

It's probably unfair to rate any player until he has used up his eligibility, but I wanted to give a snapshot view of this current defensive unit.

Of course Joey Bosa may blow out his knee this week and never play again, but right now he is starting as a true freshman on a stacked defensive line and performing very well (18 tackles, 4 TFL's, 2 sacks, 3 hurries, 1 fumble recovery). Today, he is a star. Tomorrow, who knows?

On the other hand, Curtis Grant may suddenly "get it" and start playing like an All American. But for now, he is a "miss" in my book.

 

[BUCKYLE]

A small thing to take into account is that opponents seem to have their best game against tOSU. NW' QB's completion percentage is hard to replicate in practice without pads. Some of that is the D, but some of that is pure luck

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I wouldn't necessarily get rid of Fickell because he is such a good recruiter but changes HAVE TO BE made this offseason

When Tressel, Bollman, and Heacock were running the show, Fickell was the hip, young guy on the staff who could relate to today's youth. Now Fickell is 40, and Vrable is younger (age 38) and hipper (14 seasons in the NFL and 3 Super Bowl rings will do that for a guy ... plus he has BEARD). And Urban Meyer is only 49, and definitely seems to be in tune with today's players ... and no one can question his success on the recruiting trail.

Is Fickell still the star of this recruiting staff? Is he even a "good recruiter" by comparison to the rest of this staff? I don't know, but I definitely think that this staff would recruit well without Fickell, while the same could not necessarily have been said for the previous staff.

 

[Woody1968]

When Tressel, Bollman, and Heacock were running the show, Fickell was the hip, young guy on the staff who could relate to today's youth. Now Fickell is 40, and Vrable is younger (age 38) and hipper (14 seasons in the NFL and 3 Super Bowl rings will do that for a guy ... plus he has BEARD). And Urban Meyer is only 49, and definitely seems to be in tune with today's players ... and no one can question his success on the recruiting trail.

Is Fickell still the star of this recruiting staff? Is he even a "good recruiter" by comparison to the rest of this staff? I don't know, but I definitely think that this staff would recruit well without Fickell, while the same could not necessarily have been said for the previous staff.

I hear Charlie Weiss has a lot of super bowl rings, but I certainly hope we don't hire him.

 

[jlb1705]

I actually think the overall talent level is better now.

Not a chance, and I think that comment really sells those Tressel-era defenses short.

Just watch some Sunday football. You won't go long without hearing a Tressel-era defensive player's name being called. Which juniors or seniors from this year's defense can you imagine playing on Sundays?

Roby and Shazier are probably the only consensus answers to that question. Now think about how they stack up with Tressel-era defensive players. I wouldn't put Roby in among the top five DBs from that era (for me in no particular order, Jenkins, Gamble, Doss, Whitner, Coleman), and I probably wouldn't put Shazier in among the top five LBs from that era either (for me in no particular order, Hawk, Laurinaitis, Wilhelm, Carpenter, Freeman). Not only do the Buckeyes lack depth among their upperclassmen, but the closest thing they have to elite production on this defense doesn't stack up to that era either.

That said, while Jim Tressel and staff brought in some incredible talent and put together some incredible defenses, the lack of talent and depth on that side of the ball in this year's junior and senior classes are a result of his recruiting and his scandalous exit from the program. I think there are reasons for optimism where it concerns that talent and experience gap - the new staff is recruiting well on that side of the ball it seems and hopefully there will be less attrition. Most of that optimism for now exists in the form of glimpses from players with potential, not in the form of the experience or leadership that the unit is missing.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Freeman over Shazier, jlb?

 

[RB07OSU]

When Tressel, Bollman, and Heacock were running the show, Fickell was the hip, young guy on the staff who could relate to today's youth. Now Fickell is 40, and Vrable is younger (age 38) and hipper (14 seasons in the NFL and 3 Super Bowl rings will do that for a guy ... plus he has BEARD). And Urban Meyer is only 49, and definitely seems to be in tune with today's players ... and no one can question his success on the recruiting trail.

Is Fickell still the star of this recruiting staff? Is he even a "good recruiter" by comparison to the rest of this staff? I don't know, but I definitely think that this staff would recruit well without Fickell, while the same could not necessarily have been said for the previous staff.

Agreed here. Not really hearing Fickell's name coming up alot with recruits or having much pull. I do think he is a good LBs coach and I really do think there is some disconnect between Withers and Fickell.

Now Withers I know is a great recruiter and essentially got Vonn Bell here...and he is short-handed at safety now without Bryant. Barnett has played fairly well but Bryant was our leader and UFM mentions his loss every interview for a reason. We are not going to "replace" Bryant's play or leadership. That being said, Brown is not getting it done...he has had more than enough time to establish himself and has been average at best. I rooted for him at every opportunity but the opportunities are over. It is time to roll the dice and let Bell play and not to prepare for the future, but to win today. I've seen Brown give up plenty of big plays, it isn't like we are suddenly exposing ourselves by letting him play. This defense isn't creating turnovers or making big plays and Bell potentially gives us that. Brown gives us a safety that sits back and makes a play 15 yards downfield.

At LB, we are really going to just have to play the cards we're dealt. After all the attrition over the years, we have what we have. Shazier is a phenom, Grant is somewhat steady but a liability in coverage, Perry is a physical specimen that doesn't look to have taken the next step yet, and Trey Johnson is a freshman that weighs about 210 lbs and hasn't played much. We are only going to be as good at LB as Shazier, Grant, and Perry play. I do not see the secondary in the same predicament...I like Roby, Doran Grant, and Barnett alright. Powell I am not sold on yet but we also have Tanner playing well on special teams and Vonn Bell to come in. Or we could play any of Burrows, Apple, or Conley in the nickell and move Powell back to safety. I really think there is more we can play with in the back 4.

 

[Woody1968]

Freeman over Shazier, jlb?

How about Cie Grant?

 

[Woody1968]

Agreed here. Not really hearing Fickell's name coming up alot with recruits or having much pull. I do think he is a good LBs coach and I really do think there is some disconnect between Withers and Fickell.
We are not going to "replace" Bryant's play or leadership.

I like Bryant, but honestly, it isn't like he was playing all that great. Maybe he was the leader on defense, but the poor play started well before he was injured.

 

[LitlBuck]

Agreed here. Not really hearing Fickell's name coming up alot with recruits or having much pull. I do think he is a good LBs coach and I really do think there is some disconnect between Withers and Fickell.
.

If there is some "disconnect" between the two defensive coordinators do not you think it would be up to Urban to straighten them out or do something about the "disconnect".
You also mentioned that we are sort of lacking with regard to the players that we have on the field. If that is the case, I guess I just do not understand why they do not try a different type of scheme and see what that brings. Being more aggressive might hurt us at times but it also might help at times.
I still not understand why LF coaches the LB's and MV coaches the DL when MV played linebacker in New England.
I also would not give all the credit to Withers for the recruitment of Bell because I think Lee played a somewhat significant role in that recruitment.

 

[buckeyebri]

I still not understand why LF coaches the LB's and MV coaches the DL when MV played linebacker in New England.

I brought this up a few pages back, knowing that Like has coached LBs for awhile now. My thought was the experience Vrabel brings from his playing days that could help with seeing the plays, communication, and leadership. Usually, one of the LBs is calling the plays and making adjustments on the field. I am not sure if this is happening for the Bucks right now.

 

[Bleed S & G]

A small thing to take into account is that opponents seem to have their best game against tOSU. NW' QB's completion percentage is hard to replicate in practice without pads. Some of that is the D, but some of that is pure luck

Just came to post this..

We are the top dog, and have been for some time - everyone wants to dethrone the Buckeyes.

Further, not only are we getting everyones best shot, this will be the 3rd(?) week in a row where the opposing team has 2 weeks to prepare for tOSU.