QB Todd Boeckman (official thread)

[billmac91]

Billmac, you premise you post by saying not for a late round pick or undrafted guy. Of course! That's why they are late rounders or undrafted. Todd is great as a seventh rounder. He costs almost nothing and can cut the moment you need another running back or you realize he's got serious , unworkable issues. Or maybe he sticks and becomes the next Derek Anderson. The point is that his stock is where its at for a reason, which was my original point: that guys like Cantwell are better prospects than Boeckman, despite suggestions that it was ridiculous they got combine invites over a player like Boeckman.

Just not buying this. Boeckman gets a combine invite if he keeps the job at tOSU period. The lack of statistics in his senior year prevented him from getting a combine invite. That doesn't mean he has less physical tools than Hoyer or Cantwell. Again, the fact that the Bears flew Todd out yesterday is pretty telling of his pro-day workout yesterday. He has a stronger arm that Hoyer and Cantwell, has better size, and his immobility is greatly exagerrated. He isn't John Elway, but he isn't Bernie Kosar either. And I don't expect him to be the next Derek Anderson, and I don't think anyone on this board does either. But he is an intelligent kid, with good measurables, and I'd say he could easily play the role of a Ken Dorsey. Good character guy, with a high football I.Q. that can serve as a role-model for incoming rookies and young QB's a few years down the line.

 

[Viking]

Just not buying this. Boeckman gets a combine invite if he keeps the job at tOSU period. The lack of statistics in his senior year prevented him from getting a combine invite. That doesn't mean he has less physical tools than Hoyer or Cantwell. Again, the fact that the Bears flew Todd out yesterday is pretty telling of his pro-day workout yesterday. He has a stronger arm that Hoyer and Cantwell, has better size, and his immobility is greatly exagerrated. He isn't John Elway, but he isn't Bernie Kosar either. And I don't expect him to be the next Derek Anderson, and I don't think anyone on this board does either. But he is an intelligent kid, with good measurables, and I'd say he could easily play the role of a Ken Dorsey. Good character guy, with a high football I.Q. that can serve as a role-model for incoming rookies and young QB's a few years down the line.

Not buying what? This is getting a bit redundant. Boeckman has great physical tools, but subpar mental ones, which are more important. Yes, he probably would have been invited to the combine had he played his senior season. As it stands, he didn't really do so. The last year is always the most important (see Quentin Moses, Quentin Groves, Brian Brohm, Matt Leinart, James Davis, the list goes on). Ken Dorsey was a seventh round pick, 241st overall. I don't see where we're disagreeing on that point and that being Boeckman's value.

 

[billmac91]

Not buying what? This is getting a bit redundant. Boeckman has great physical tools, but subpar mental ones, which are more important. Yes, he probably would have been invited to the combine had he played his senior season. As it stands, he didn't really do so. The last year is always the most important (see Quentin Moses, Quentin Groves, Brian Brohm, Matt Leinart, James Davis, the list goes on). Ken Dorsey was a seventh round pick, 241st overall. I don't see where we're disagreeing on that point and that being Boeckman's value.

Because if Boeckman plays at Louisville or MSU he's the starter. Period. It's apples and oranges. You bang on his mental capacity, which is absurd. Peyton Manning looked ridiculous against Pittsburgh in the playoffs a few years ago. That doesn't mean he's an idiot. Sometimes you catch some bad breaks. Todd has better tools that Cantwell and Hoyer. Mentally, he is fine. He wasn't invited to the combine b/c he didn't have a senior season.

 

[matcar]

Because if Boeckman plays at Louisville or MSU he's the starter. Period. It's apples and oranges. You bang on his mental capacity, which is absurd. Peyton Manning looked ridiculous against Pittsburgh in the playoffs a few years ago. That doesn't mean he's an idiot. Sometimes you catch some bad breaks. Todd has better tools that Cantwell and Hoyer. Mentally, he is fine. He wasn't invited to the combine b/c he didn't have a senior season.

If he'd played, I doubt he'd have been invited. I'm glad Todd was a Buckeye, but there's a few reasons he lost his job to a freshman. Yeah, one reason is that the freshman in question was TP, but the other reasons relate to Todd's ability...which isn't NFL caliber.

 

[Viking]

Because if Boeckman plays at Louisville or MSU he's the starter. Period. It's apples and oranges. You bang on his mental capacity, which is absurd. Peyton Manning looked ridiculous against Pittsburgh in the playoffs a few years ago. That doesn't mean he's an idiot. Sometimes you catch some bad breaks. Todd has better tools that Cantwell and Hoyer. Mentally, he is fine. He wasn't invited to the combine b/c he didn't have a senior season.

And he didn't have a senior season in part because he goes all deer-in-the-headlights when pressured. Part of that's the offensive line, fine, I get it, but part of it is Boeckman's own shortcomings. I'm not saying he's stupid by any means. This has nothing to do with learning an offense or overall intelligence. This has to do with his ability to sense and respond appropriately to pressure from defenses. He also doesn't make the greatest decisions. I'm not saying he doesn't have better physical tools than those other guys, but he doesn't have better mental tools. I never said he was an idiot, but he is not mentally 'fine' as a prospect. It doesn't matter if he had started at MSU, Louisville, or at Ohio State; if he had two or three years under his belt this would be a totally different story, so I'm not sure what your point is in that regard. The simple fact is he does not, and that makes him a very suspect NFL prospect.

 

[mercer_buckeye]

Boeckman has mental flaws.

he goes all deer-in-the-headlights when pressured.

Finally common ground. This is the only thing holding Boeckman back. I still want to see what NFL coaches can and can't teach him. Why didn't you just say this yesterday and been done.

 

[billmac91]

If he'd played, I doubt he'd have been invited. I'm glad Todd was a Buckeye, but there's a few reasons he lost his job to a freshman. Yeah, one reason is that the freshman in question was TP, but the other reasons relate to Todd's ability...which isn't NFL caliber.

so you don't think All-Big 10 as a junior, could have carried over at all during his senior season? Fortunately for Hoyer and Cantwell, they didn't have the #1 QB in the country coming in behind them. Couple the fact that you have an awful O-line early in the season, with Terrelle's escapability, and Ohio State decided to make the move.

How quickly people forget Todd was All Big 10 and had the highest passing efficiency his junior year. Hoyer and Boeckman weren't even in the same breath Todds' junior year.

He didn't just disappear overnight. The kid has game, and great physical tools. Again, put todd at MSU or Louisville, and Cantwell and Hoyer are picking splinters. If you think Hoyer or Cantwell make any type of difference in the Ohio State vs. USC game last year, I think you're crazy. Not to mention, Todd made several great throws that were called back b/c of penalties...the kid could not catch a break in that game.

I seem to recall Todd making some nice escapes his junior year as well. I agree to a point he has poor pocket presence, but a lot of this seems based on the USC game. The kid took a beating....plenty of good QB's have been made to look ridiculous against USC's defense in recent years.

 

[Steve19]

My concern with Todd as a pro is with his ability to handle pressure. I don't think he is mobile enough and he takes a lot of physical abuse in sacks. I first noticed how badly he handled pressure in the 2007 MSU game. So did opposing teams, because they put him under constant pressure thereafter. One can blame the offensive line for not giving him enough protection, but I saw something in the last interception he threw against USC that told me he would not be our starter anymore.

I also don't believe that his performance the year before was really as good as his numbers suggest. He doesn't have a cannon and many of those long TD balls he threw, in fact most of them, were thrown short. Great receivers made him look better, I think. In the big games where he could have shined, it seems reasonable to say he didn't.

As much as I like Todd and sincerely respect the way he conducted himself this year, I honestly don't think he would make a good pro quarterback. On the other hand, I am a big fan of his and think he will be a real success in life. He has what it takes.

 

[billmac91]

I also don't believe that his performance the year before was really as good as his numbers suggest. He doesn't have a cannon and many of those long TD balls he threw, in fact most of them, were thrown short. Great receivers made him look better, I think. In the big games where he could have shined, it seems reasonable to say he didn't.

Most of the throws were designed. JT admitted as much. He wanted Todd to give Robiskie an opportunity to make a play b/c his ball skills are amazing. In hindsight, it didn't work very well, including Todd doing a bad job of looking deep help off. But I don't think JT was blowing smoke when he said Todd threw the best deep ball he had seen since coaching at tOSU. For multiple reasons, things just didn't work out for him....

 

[OregonBuckeye]

If he'd played, I doubt he'd have been invited. I'm glad Todd was a Buckeye, but there's a few reasons he lost his job to a freshman. Yeah, one reason is that the freshman in question was TP, but the other reasons relate to Todd's ability...which isn't NFL caliber.

matcar, are you smoking some bad bud today? First the Big-10 bashing now this?

This is the same event that invited Kyle-Fucking-Wright. Boeckman would've been invited.

 

[Viking]

Finally common ground. This is the only thing holding Boeckman back. I still want to see what NFL coaches can and can't teach him. Why didn't you just say this yesterday and been done.

I said 'panics under pressure' in my first post... His lack of experience and his age are also problematic, given that he would most likely have to sit for a few years before amounting to anything in the league.

My concern with Todd as a pro is with his ability to handle pressure. I don't think he is mobile enough and he takes a lot of physical abuse in sacks. I first noticed how badly he handled pressure in the 2007 MSU game. So did opposing teams, because they put him under constant pressure thereafter. One can blame the offensive line for not giving him enough protection, but I saw something in the last interception he threw against USC that told me he would not be our starter anymore.

I also don't believe that his performance the year before was really as good as his numbers suggest. He doesn't have a cannon and many of those long TD balls he threw, in fact most of them, were thrown short. Great receivers made him look better, I think. In the big games where he could have shined, it seems reasonable to say he didn't.

As much as I like Todd and sincerely respect the way he conducted himself this year, I honestly don't think he would make a good pro quarterback. On the other hand, I am a big fan of his and think he will be a real success in life. He has what it takes.

Good to see I'm not the only one, and you're definitely right about MSU being the turning point. After that he had a great game against Penn State (probably the only time the play-calling was really, really good; to give Boeckman some credit if every game were called like that one that sky would be the limit) and a good comeback second half against Wisconsin (Robiskie had a big hand in that), but then was culpable for the Illinois loss (along with the defense, somewhat) and might as well not have been on the field against Michigan. Then he was streaky against LSU, had a bounce-back against YSU, and then was average and poor against Ohio and USC, respectively. In short, he got exposed as a player who isn't a top tier NCAA quarterback, and one who doesn't project well to the NFL.

This isn't bashing. This is a statement of fact. We're all Buckeyes here, but sometimes I think our collective allegiance causes people to buy into things that aren't correct. I really like certain Buckeyes as prospects. I'm convinced Jenkins is a top 10 prospect in draft, regardless of his 40, just like I'm convinced Wells is. I love Freeman and am a big fan of Robiskie, but Boeckman's skill set just doesn't project well, what is so hard to understand about that?

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Boeckman's confidence issues are being made too much of. He's not a 3rd round prospect or higher where it would matter. He's a 7th round/UFA type. NFL scouts aren't expecting them to contribute. They're just looking for guys with some potential that they might be able to coach up. If they don't make it, no big deal. Todd has potential to be a quality back-up. Good guy with prototypical size from a great program. Coaches will see that and give him a look.

 

[NFBuck]

So one guy in the history of the NFL had done okay in one season in which he had a top 5 line, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and good running game, with several years sitting on the bench learning the system for one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL. Not the exception that proves the rule, but you can't seriously point to Matt Cassel every time a guy with no playing experience tries to make it in the NFL.

So you're saying playing behind a good OL can make a supposed marginal QB look good...hmmmmm.

Did you see Brady workout at the combine? He was tiny; pathetically small. Arm strength can improve; Smith (Troy) is a great example of that (as is Brady). As to your assertion, probably not, but if he's considered a mid-round prospect and Boeckman is barely draftable, what does that make Boeckman?

Troy always had a very good arm, early on his accuracy/decision making was the issue. That can be tought, arm strength (or significant arm strength) cannot. It can be improved with technique, but it's either there or it's not. Todd's arm is plenty strong as we saw in the first 7 or 8 games in '07, it just looked worse when he was running for his life the last 4-5 games of '07 and last fall.

Look, nobody here is saying TB is gonna be drafted high or an NFL star. What he has is ideal size (6'5, 245) and a pretty good arm. It should be enough to get a look in the NFL. Hell Zwick got invited to Indy's camp after 1 1/2 years as a backup and 1/2 miserable year as a starter (coincidently behind a bad OL). It's up to TB and his eventual coaching staff to get him past his jitters. Will he? Well, that remains to be seen, but pointing to him losing his job to the most hyped Frosh in the programs history is short-sighted. I can't think of very many QBs without exceptional mobility that wouldn't have looked bad behind last seasons early season OL play.

I can see him hooking on with a teams practice squad next season based on his potential, after that, who knows...

 

[schwab]

Perhaps you should consider using italics to get your point across.

 

[matcar]

so you don't think All-Big 10 as a junior, could have carried over at all during his senior season? Fortunately for Hoyer and Cantwell, they didn't have the #1 QB in the country coming in behind them. Couple the fact that you have an awful O-line early in the season, with Terrelle's escapability, and Ohio State decided to make the move.

How quickly people forget Todd was All Big 10 and had the highest passing efficiency his junior year. Hoyer and Boeckman weren't even in the same breath Todds' junior year.

He didn't just disappear overnight. The kid has game, and great physical tools. Again, put todd at MSU or Louisville, and Cantwell and Hoyer are picking splinters. If you think Hoyer or Cantwell make any type of difference in the Ohio State vs. USC game last year, I think you're crazy. Not to mention, Todd made several great throws that were called back b/c of penalties...the kid could not catch a break in that game.

I seem to recall Todd making some nice escapes his junior year as well. I agree to a point he has poor pocket presence, but a lot of this seems based on the USC game. The kid took a beating....plenty of good QB's have been made to look ridiculous against USC's defense in recent years.

Todd played well against very poor competition. Once the competition improved, he was not a good QB, fair is how he would be best described. I was one of his biggest supporters before the year began last year as I hoped/predicted he would rebound. As it turned out, he was who he is. A fair QB. Not NFL material. It's OK, Todd is still a great person and I'd assume he'll go on to great things, it just won't be on an NFL football field.