2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

[Clarity]

I guess I just would like to discuss a player's performance without being seen as "bashing" said player if I perceive obvious and unacceptable flaws in said performance. Just discussing pros and cons, do the pros outweigh the cons, are the cons fixable, are the cons coachable, etc.

I don't understand why you think you can't. Do you need to call Boeckman a name? Do you need to speak in absolutes about his future prospects? Do you need to make quips about him needing splinters in his ass, or do you otherwise need to say things that malign the kid?

If not, then you have no worries. There are MAJOR misunderstandings about what gets people temp-banned, and I don't really understand why. Frankly, I'm more frustrated by that confusion than I am the comments of those few who do buy time-outs.

not bannable:
"I think Boeckman is a liability in big games when the pressure is on because he locks on receivers, looks flustered in the pocket, and can be clumsy and unaware on the move when he gets poor protection from the line. I'd like to see us give Pryor a chance, because I'm not convinced Boeckman can get us through the big games." (Not a great post, but not bannable. Why don't we expand upon this with specific examples from the game? Contribute to the conversation, instead of just making declarations.)

bannable:
"Chokeman should never be allowed on the field again, he shouldn't even suit up, or if he does, should never leave the bench because he sucks."

Here's a link with a basic list of fallacies:
List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Avoid those, absolutes, and petulance without substance -- and I don't see how you or anyone would get banned.

Qualify statements.

"I think X." This isn't enough, knowing what you think means little if I don't understand why you think it. Expand. "Y and Z lead me to believe X."
"X is forever or absolute." More shit, of the worst type. "Based on X, it's hard to imagine Y." Fine. "Right now, I can't get my head past X." Fine.

You can say basically anything you want as long as you qualify it, and in the process, CREATE conversation as opposed to stifling it.

 

[VprHis]

TB didn't play with as much poise and composure out there as Pryor.

I wonder if he's bending under the pressure. It seems to me that Terrelle just goes out to compete. He goes into every play trying to beat the other team.

Todd feels the burden of responsibility--it seems he feels that he has to carry the team, and maybe that's slowing him down just a bit. He is looking a bit gun-shy out there.

He's getting his ass handed to him by each defense he faces (combo of poor protection and nowhere to go with the ball). He's battered mentally and physically, and to be honest, he's got the right to be pissed off right now.

I'm proud of Todd. He's bearing the brunt of the blame for the team's performance, but he's hamstrung by the rest of the team's lack of execution.

I'm not saying he's perfect. He's not. I'm just saying that he's every bit the competitor that TP is. He continues to pick himself up off the turf and answer the bell. Look at him last night. Several times, I thought he was done, but he got up and went again.

Maybe TP looks more effective, but he hasn't faced the same relentless pressure as Boeckman. I guess there's nothing much to do but see if the protection improves.

 

[LitlBuck]

To be fair to Boeckman, I think we can all agree that he is not the most mobile of QB's that have ever played at Ohio State but you really can't do a whole lot when you have guys right in your face or you are getting hammered as soon as you would let the ball go which was happening yesterday. There has to be away for the coaching staff to make some in game adjustments when USC loads up the line up scrimmage every time they saw Todd was at the QB position. While TP might have had more combined yards yesterday, he was also somewhat one-dimensional is that he has to learn a great deal about pass coverage. The USC scheme and what he saw in high school last year are so totally different it probably cannot even be measured. Boeckman has a tendency to throw into coverage sometimes and yesterday he paid the price for it but you cannot expect any quarterback to grade out a winning performance when he is throwing the ball under duress the majority of the time. It is also extremely difficult for any quarterback, be it Pryor or Boeckman, to be effective when they're being rotated in and out of the game. That is an extremely difficult situation for any QB.

 

[scarletngray]

Todd didn't play his best game, and TP provides us the mobility needed when the OL is not performing well. But it was not Todd's fault that a TD got called back because of an OL penalty. Nor was it his fault when they got to the 5 yd. line but got two penalties that pushed them back to the 25 yd. line. Nor was it his fault that Beanie couldn't play which would have given us a stronger running game. Nor was it his fault that the OL could not handle USC's blitz and pass rush.

Ohio State played the team which will most likely win the NC this year and perhaps go down as one of the best Trojan teams in history. The Trojan defense matches up with the best defenses EVER to take the field. That too, is not Todd's fault.

With that being said, I hope we continue to use a two QB strategy, because as a team, we need what TP brings to the table.

 

[LitlBuck]

With that being said, I hope we continue to use a two QB strategy, because as a team, we need what TP brings to the table.

I personally hope that they do not continue with the two quarterback system as it was used yesterday. It is almost difficult for any player to get into a rhythm of the game if he plays one down and then goes out of the game. I would like for the coaches to decide on one QB and let that guy play for at least an entire half if they are not sure what QB is going to give them the best chance to win. I do not take a QB rotating in and out of the game finds any rhythm to the game at all. I thought that is why they practiced during the week to decide who was the better player at any position.

 

[Florida Buckeye]

QB Performance

Kueller thanks for posting these stats.

Boeckman has seemed to regress rather than get better with experience. He did make bad decisions under pressure. However, I am not ready to say this is cause for JT to reconsider starting Boeckman. Pryor's numbers were better mostly because of his mobility. The real cause for concern is not as much a quarterback controversy as it is the offensive line's poor performance. Boeckman and Pryor both had zero time and it seemed like there was always somebody in the backfield on every play. Even Pryor had more difficulty escaping as the game went on. The issues on the offensive line need to be addressed. They have the potential / ability as shown in the second drive of the game, but they have to keep that intensity up for 60 minutes. Even in that drive, the OL let penalties kill it at the very end.

I am also a Bengals fan and have watched what terrible line play can do to a good quarterback. I would hate for tOSU to waste Pryor the way Cincinnati is wasting Palmer. I don't see JT letting that happen, but the line needs to be good in order for both Boeckman and Pryor to reach their potential.

 

[Taosman]

I'm watching Payton Manning struggle because his offensive line is not giving him time to make throws. This is arguably the best QB in Pro Footbal right now. It all starts with the guys up front. I have seen Boeckman take hits in every game this year. YSU and Ohio were both getting to him. :( For this team right now we need TP to help make plays. And even the escapability of Bauserman would help with this offensive line. Maybe for this offense without Beanie, Bauserman should get playing time? He is a very good looking passer with a quick release and a strong arm and he's more mobile than Boeckman.

 

[cataboy3]

i dont want to be "that guy" but pryor should start. honestly, boeckman has plateaued, then fell a little bit. pryor brings energy to the team. he's the future and the team needs something fresh and new after this loss. boeckman doesnt step into his throws anymore, panics, gets happy feet, and it seems like he's afraid of losing the game instead of trying to win it. he's exactly how i was in basketball, afraid to mess up. it led to my demise.... haha

 

[Bleed S & G]

i dont want to be "that guy" but pryor should start. honestly, boeckman has plateaued, then fell a little bit. pryor brings energy to the team. he's the future and the team needs something fresh and new after this loss. boeckman doesnt step into his throws anymore, panics, gets happy feet, and it seems like he's afraid of losing the game instead of trying to win it. he's exactly how i was in basketball, afraid to mess up. it led to my demise.... haha

Did you see Pryor throwing the ball? C'mon...

He is no doubt the future, but he needs tiime to develope.. Dosen't matter who's QB if you don't have time to throw.. the game last reminded me of watching Tim Couch and the BROWNS.. Boeckman was getting hit every play it seemed...

 

[cataboy3]

Did you see Pryor throwing the ball?

did you see boeckman throwing the ball?

 

[Taosman]

We saw an offensive line that still couldn't protect any QB including TP. Pryor can't read defenses, yet. We must have someone to throw the ball when needed. That's just the reality.

 

[Jake]

We saw an offensive line that still couldn't protect any QB including TP. Pryor can't read defenses, yet. We must have someone to throw the ball when needed. That's just the reality.

His last 8 games versus BCS schools Boeckman has 11 TDs and 13 INTs. That's not the kind of production that warrants keeping the top QB recruit in the nation on the bench. Our record is 5-3 in those games, largely due to a stud RB, great kicking game and good defense.

Also, if protection is a problem - which to some extent it is - then wouldn't it make sense to have a more mobile QB in the game?

Boeckman is by no means the sole reason for our recent struggles but it is clear we are not getting the type of QB play befitting of a contender. It would be unwise to not consider other options, especially having landed Terrelle Pryor.

 

[Taosman]

As some have suggested, TP is not quite ready to be given the keys to this team. He has made great progress, but reading of defenses and passing skills just aren't there, yet. Great QBs start out with physical skills, but it just takes time at the major level and in a program to become ready to be "the guy". Even Joe B. has better "physical" skills than Todd. But Todd has the all important game experience that can't be duplicated.
The coaches know these players much better than anyone here does. Tressel will make the right decision to win the most games. :tongue2:

 

[cataboy3]

We saw an offensive line that still couldn't protect any QB including TP. Pryor can't read defenses, yet. We must have someone to throw the ball when needed. That's just the reality.

Boeckman read that defense well when he threw that INT for a TD.

 

[NFBuck]

The thing is, the best thing for development is reps and experience. TP has been by all accounts a quick study. Sure he'll take some lumps if he's handed the offense, but he doesn't have to face USC again. Bottom line, in my eyes, TP gives this team the best chance to win now and additional experience greatly speeds up his development. He can tune up against Troy and Minny and get his first big test in Camp Randall. Chances are, he's gonna have Beanie back there too to help shoulder the load. Right now, Todd's confidence is in the cellar. He's limited by skill and confidence. I have a hard time seeing him get it back. For 7+ games now, he just has not been a very good QB. He certainly hasn't done anything to keep the most hyped recruit in recent tOSU memory off the field.

Obviously, I don't expect JT to outright sit Todd, he's a Senior captain, but TP needs to be phased in more and more. For now and the future.