2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

[Mac]

I don't understand why people are saying BENCH TODD now. There's no reason for that. He's the reason we did so well last year. Ever heard of the saying, "If it ain't broke don't fix it?"

I can see why people were doubting Todd last year, but I mean what else does the guy have to do? Sure Pryor came in, but I honestly would rather see Todd play 90% of the snaps this year

 

[jwinslow]

So, benching Boeckman if he has a shit game, i.e., costs us a game with mistakes, is irrational? If Tressel feels Boeckman's play is a threat to our chances of winning the NC, he'll do what is needed.

Do you believe Terrelle can carry this team to an NC WIN this season without Todd as the main QB? I sure don't. If he plays way beyond his years and learns in a flash, he might be able to get OSU to a pretty good bowl. But perfection or close to it in the W-L column? Slim to none chance.

edit: same applies to Joe, imo... even if for different reasons.

Son, don't you dare lecture me on what Jim Tressel will do...I've followed Tressel since before you were a gleam in the mailman's eye.

Then tell us, right now, what he's going to do after a bad game from Todd.

If that's all it takes to get Chris Wells off the field, I'll personally get on the field and chop his hands off.

We've been missing your humor.

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

So, benching Boeckman if he has a [censored] game, i.e., costs us a game with mistakes, is irrational? If Tressel feels Boeckman's play is a threat to our chances of winning the NC, he'll do what is needed. Son, don't you dare lecture me on what Jim Tressel will do...I've followed Tressel since before you were a gleam in the mailman's eye.

Yes, benching our clear and away starter over one game is pretty irrational considering the depth behind him. Neither have played a collegiate snap and one just got on campus a few months ago.

Boeckman a "threat to our chances of winning a NC" but Pryor/Bauserman are not? LOL. Based on what makes you think either would not be as big of a risk...if not bigger?

I'm sure we could find somenone who has followed longer that disagrees with you. If we do that will you stop? I doubt it, so why even mention that?

 

[generaladm]

Le's say, for arguments sake, that in one game this year, TB has a terrible game (2 or more INTs) and the Bucks are behind with the game on the line, I can see Tressel putting in TP or Bauserman for a series or two, to see if they can pull it out. But, I'll bet that for the first possession of the next game, #17 is under center. To say that TB gets pulled after one "bad" INT is preposterous.

A bit of precedence to Tressel's loyalty to his senior QBs: In the 2003 UM game, Krenzel had to go out due to injury. McMullen came in and played well enough to close the gap to 7 points, with time left to score again. I thought at the time (and still do) that leaving Scott in would give us the best chance to win the game. Tressel thought that Krenzel, who was obviously not %100, was the better choice, I'll assume due to his history of playing big with the game on the line. We'll never know which was the better choice, but it's my opinion that Krenzel got the nod because of his accomplishments, not because he was the more capable QB at that moment. In this year's case, we would be replacing an 11 game winner with one of two QBs who have never played a live college snap.

To be honest, if TP hadn't signed with us, I would give us the same chance to run the table. No matter how exciting his HS highlights were, he will not be a proven commodity until he steps on the field during an OSU game. Yes, he has the potential to be a rare talent for OSU, but offensive weapons aren't exactly in short supply on this squad. I'm happy as hell that he chose the Buckeyes, but any contributions he makes on the field this year will be the icing, not the cake.

BTW, if were going to go on about whether TB will be benched, doesn't that belong on the QB discussion thread?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I don't think anybody is questioning Tressel, we all believe he'll do what he thinks gives us the best chance to win. I think what people are questioning is the delusion that giving ourselves the best chance to win would mean starting a true freshman quarterback over Todd Boeckman who's already proven he can get us to that game.

Boeckman didn't get us to that NC game, at least not to the degree that many insinuate. If it weren't for Beanie's 2nd-half explosion against Wisconsin, we likely lose that game. And just think if Beanie wasn't able to have his way against Michigan and we had to rely on a QB who fumbled the ball not once but twice, and then threw a wounded duck interception, all in the first half, to win that game.

I think that if Boeckman gets pulled for whatever reason, Bauserman will take over and Pryor will continue to get the "side reps" until Pryor is ready to assume command.

 

[Oh8ch]

Is there an NFL conspiracy to screw over Buckeye QBs? - Bucknuts Forum


Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Buckeye Nut]

Boeckman didn't get us to that NC game, at least not to the degree that many insinuate. If it weren't for Beanie's 2nd-half explosion against Wisconsin, we likely lose that game. And just think if Beanie wasn't able to have his way against Michigan and we had to rely on a QB who fumbled the ball not once but twice, and then threw a wounded duck interception, all in the first half, to win that game.

I think that if Boeckman gets pulled for whatever reason, Bauserman will take over and Pryor will continue to get the "side reps" until Pryor is ready to assume command.

I agree he didn't get us there by himself, Beanie was huge. But leadership, game management and who your teammates trust in that huddle are very important too, much in the same way Krenzel didn't get us to the national title in 2002 but he did enough. You give us the 2002 defense last year and we go 13-0 and nobody's making any ridiculous statements about the possibility of Todd getting pulled. Boeckman may not be the best quarterback around, but there's nobody on this roster that comes close to giving us a better chance to win week in and week out than Todd. The guy's going to have a bad game, most players do during the course of a season, but that's no reason to pull him. You have to count on your teammates to help pick you up when that bad game comes. Simply put, if you were to start any of the three guys we have on the roster for 12 games, Todd's going to have the fewest bad games between the three. The other two haven't taken a collegiate snap, I don't see how anybody could have more confidence in that than Todd. One other thing, do people not take into account Todd will be better this year? Last year was his first year as a starter, most guys get significantly better from year one to year two as a starter. Todd's going to have better talent and more experience around him at every position this year, how can he not be better?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I agree he didn't get us there by himself, Beanie was huge. But leadership, game management and who your teammates trust in that huddle are very important too, much in the same way Krenzel didn't get us to the national title in 2002 but he did enough. You give us the 2002 defense last year and we go 13-0 and nobody's making any ridiculous statements about the possibility of Todd getting pulled.

Give us the 2002 defense and I could lead us to 13-0. And the leadership and game management area you point out were not so evident over the last three, actually four, games.

Back to Pryor...

 

[jwinslow]

And the leadership and game management area you point out were not so evident over the last three, actually four, games.

What are the chances we get NC run leadership and game management from complete rookies? Especially when playing a juggernaut from Los Angeles, about two weeks into their game experience (if not less, for Joe)?

OSU might be able to pull out a game or two by letting Pryor's minutes go "overboard" (for a backup) if Todd is having trouble. But I'm not buying that the backup-QBs can execute that well over 13 games without Todd, let alone against two national title contenders in the 3rd and 13th games. Todd being benched for the backups ends a realistic shot at redemption in the NC game.

Maybe if our defense was suffocating, there would be a chance that a game-manager could traverse the pitfalls of a NC run. I don't think Krenzel would have changed the last two bowl game outcomes, personally. 2 of todd's 3 bad outings were on the defense as well, plus the other consecutive title game. I hope experience can cure all, as well as health from Wilson, Rose, Denlinger and others, but right now I don't see the reassurance that OSU can surround a rookie QB and go the distance.

 

[Buckeye Nut]

Give us the 2002 defense and I could lead us to 13-0. And the leadership and game management area you point out were not so evident over the last three, actually four, games.

Back to Pryor...

Which leads us back to the whole point....nobody else on the roster has taken a collegiate snap and Todd is better in those areas than anyone we have. It's not a hard choice. The defense and mental breakdown's were as much to blame as Todd for the two losses.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Boeckman didn't get us to that NC game, at least not to the degree that many insinuate. If it weren't for Beanie's 2nd-half explosion against Wisconsin, we likely lose that game. And just think if Beanie wasn't able to have his way against Michigan and we had to rely on a QB who fumbled the ball not once but twice, and then threw a wounded duck interception, all in the first half, to win that game.

I think that if Boeckman gets pulled for whatever reason, Bauserman will take over and Pryor will continue to get the "side reps" until Pryor is ready to assume command.

You are living in fantasy world.

Beanie didn't get us there either, other teams ranked ahead of the buckeyes that choked got us there.

Son, don't you dare lecture me

 

[Kueller]

Sept. 13, 2008 Ohio State @ USC QB statistics

Passing:
Todd Boeckman: 14/21 67%, 84yds, 4.0yd avg, 0td/2int
Terelle Pryor: 7/9 77%, 52 yds, 5.8yd avg, 0td/0int

Rushing:
Todd Boeckman: 8, -27yds, 1 fumble
Terelle Pryor: 11, 40yds

Total yards:
Todd Boeckman: 29 plays for 57yds, 1.97yd avg, 3 turnovers
Terelly Pryor: 20 plays for 92 yards, 4.6yd avg

They're just numbers, but they sure are interesting numbers.

I understand starting a senior over an underclassman if the senior gives you a better chance to win now, but when you can build experience for the future and have a better performance with the underclassman, do you still stick with the senior? I'm not so sure. Maybe you can't run as many plays, but when the plays you can run are more effective simply by virtue of your QB being one scary dude, the trade off might be worthwhile.

 

[NightmaresDad]

Good post, Kueller.

It's impossible for me to post what I think and what I have observed on this subject without getting banned, so I won't.

I do hope that Grad 21 and maybe a couple of other football-wise mods post on the QB's performance objectively and without the "we made the NC game last year" that a lot of posters tend to make.

No stats, no team accomplishments, just the QB's grade based on their own performance as observed. What should happen vs what did happen.

I guess I just would like to discuss a player's performance without being seen as "bashing" said player if I perceive obvious and unacceptable flaws in said performance. Just discussing pros and cons, do the pros outweigh the cons, are the cons fixable, are the cons coachable, etc.

 

[osugrad21]

Good post, Kueller.

It's impossible for me to post what I think and what I have observed on this subject without getting banned, so I won't.

I do hope that Grad 21 and maybe a couple of other football-wise mods post on the QB's performance objectively and without the "we made the NC game last year" that a lot of posters tend to make.

No stats, no team accomplishments, just the QB's grade based on their own performance as observed. What should happen vs what did happen.

I guess I just would like to discuss a player's performance without being seen as "bashing" said player if I perceive obvious and unacceptable flaws in said performance. Just discussing pros and cons, do the pros outweigh the cons, are the cons fixable, are the cons coachable, etc.

Who ever said you cannot do this? Christ people...its not real difficult to discuss a player's performance without saying "he sucks" etc.

I'm tired of the whole "Gestapo BS"

If you are smart enough to dissect a player's performance, you should sure as hell be bright enough to do it in a reasonable manner.

How hard is it to say "Todd is not getting the job done right now." instead of "Boeckman sucks and needs to find the bench."

Is that honestly asking too much?

 

[shetuck]

Okay, let me give this a try... (attempting to critique without bashing or being rude - in the context of last night's loss)

This is my criticism of TB's play last night but it's only relative to TP's performance.

TB didn't play with as much poise and composure out there as Pryor. He's struggled with that for a while now - maybe going all the way back to Wisky or MSU last year. Beanie stepped up and took the leadership role in those two games last year and we got by. Opposing teams have to face a real threat from our offense, and it doesn't appear that TB poses a real threat out there. When opposing d's hit back and land a good punch, TB has difficulty shaking it off (mentally, not physically). And, for whatever reason - call it the "glass jaw" effect, or whatever - they're able to defuse TB's threat very quickly and effectively.

By extension, when opposing defenses defuse TB, they're also able to defuse our receivers and simply focus on loading up the box and shutting things down in the trenches. Last night's game was a perfect example of that.

True, we're not a one-dimensional squad and we wouldn't have been as successful recently as we have if we were a one-man team. But if only pose one volatile threat out there, it gets very ugly to regroup once that threat is neutralized (or even exploited as a weakness against us).