Jaxbuck said:

This at least gets to the real issue people are giving all kinds of different labels to.

Execution.

Doesn't matter how fast/slow you go, if you don't execute, you don't get the maximum points per possession you could have. When the other team can punch back more and more this is going to get you into tighter games or beat.

It isn't because of tempo. It isn't because of the number of possessions. It's because you failed to execute and extract enough points in the possessions you did have. If you go faster on purpose (not in scenarios where you have no choice) when you have an execution problem, you are just going to give the ball back to the other team faster.

The constraint of the game of football is 1) the clock and 2) the rules that require an exchange of possessions. If you speed up, you can absolutely get more possessions per game but you are at the same time going to give your opponent more possessions and when you do that you are giving them more opportunities for random variance to express itself.

Ask yourself what is the ideal outcome of every possession? If you could make it happen what would it be?

For me it's score a TD after the longest possible time of possession possible which is theoretically 60 game minutes. Even though that is fantasy, it's true north of how the game actually works. Anything you do that gets away from that, you are going in the wrong direction.

Give me points (ideally a TD) after every possession and each possession take 8-9 minutes and I will end up with 2-3 more possessions than the other guy. THEN, he will be playing from behind in the fewer possessions he has so the last few will be severely constrained (in my favor) and I am going to win every time. When you are the more skilled team, this is the only sensible strategy.

It breaks down when execution breaks down, like anything else.

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Jaxbuck said:

This at least gets to the real issue people are giving all kinds of different labels to.

Execution.

Doesn't matter how fast/slow you go, if you don't execute, you don't get the maximum points per possession you could have. When the other team can punch back more and more this is going to get you into tighter games or beat.

It isn't because of tempo. It isn't because of the number of possessions. It's because you failed to execute and extract enough points in the possessions you did have. If you go faster on purpose (not in scenarios where you have no choice) when you have an execution problem, you are just going to give the ball back to the other team faster.

The constraint of the game of football is 1) the clock and 2) the rules that require an exchange of possessions. If you speed up, you can absolutely get more possessions per game but you are at the same time going to give your opponent more possessions and when you do that you are giving them more opportunities for random variance to express itself.

Ask yourself what is the ideal outcome of every possession? If you could make it happen what would it be?

For me it's score a TD after the longest possible time of possession possible which is theoretically 60 game minutes. Even though that is fantasy, it's true north of how the game actually works. Anything you do that gets away from that, you are going in the wrong direction.

Give me points (ideally a TD) after every possession and each possession take 8-9 minutes and I will end up with 2-3 more possessions than the other guy. THEN, he will be playing from behind in the fewer possessions he has so the last few will be severely constrained (in my favor) and I am going to win every time. When you are the more skilled team, this is the only sensible strategy.

It breaks down when execution breaks down, like anything else.

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billmac91 said:

I think the variable at play here though, is protecting a weakness (in this case the offensive line) by going uptempo to slow down a pass rush.

There’s definitely a “balance” IMO. We didn’t find it in time this year…

I’d also state, of the teams remaining, all mix in variations of tempo throughout the course of a game…..obviously much more so than OSU who was the slowest in the country.

As smart as we think Ryan Day is, all the other coaches still remaining aren’t idiots…..not saying you’re calling them that either. But to think Day has the “best” formula for winning, is probably not accurate. IMO, he did get too conservative this year….and that comes off of years where he was way too aggressive (especially going for it on 4th down). I think he’ll find a better balance next year.

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cmstophe said:

Yeah. That’s kind of the end point being made. If you find yourself unable to maximize your skill talent and play faster whenever you face a team with a pulse, you better find out why and that is the area that needs addressed most critically. Because it was the same vs Indiana.

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billmac91 said:

I’m not ever sure about this anymore….at least in regards to reps for backups.

Our local reporters are even commenting on the potential negative recruiting aspects of it.

Kids want to play….if OSU wants to minimize STARTER reps to keep them fresh, I get it. But when we’re up 30 on Ohio University, and we’re milking the clock down…..it’s an opportunity for the backups to develop but also have fun and an opportunity to shine.

I feel like Day has seen some major pendulum swings in his career here at OSU….I feel like he swung too far conservative this year, where he felt like we could just be a machine and mathematically dismantle each opponent. Unfortunately, while we do have a significant talent advantage over most teams, it’s not large enough to withstand terrible FG kicking, and freshman mistake at QB.

On top of that….and this probably isn’t that important in context of winning a championship, but the style of play just isn’t “fun”. I’m not sure when it starts showing up in recruiting, but if we truly want to consistently have like 50 offensive snaps a game, it will begin impacting the recruits we bring in. I’ve said it many times about Kirby Smart…..I love that when he goes to his backups in blow-outs, he coaches even harder. He puts the onus on the defense to stop his young kids, and he’s playing the game out like they’re playing for a championship. It’s huge for player development, depth, and confidence later in year should you have significant injury.

We’ll see, but I think the pendulum will swing back some next year (in a more aggressive direction).

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billmac91 said:

I 100% get the efficiency argument and how effective it can be. I’d argue, especially with Sayin missing wide open throws (probably bc he’s a freshman?) that playing for nearly perfect execution is likely a mistake against a team with a very good, if not elite, defensive line.

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Mike80 said:

Just say you want Ryan Day fired (in Cliff's Notes format please) and skip to the end. This constant whataboutism is boring.

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Jaxbuck said:

No one is trying to.

Ask yourself which scenario requires the fewest assumptions here
1) Ryan Day was unaware that he was trailing and too stupid to know that if he just sped up he would score more points

2) Ryan Day knew he was trailing, also knew his QB and OL were not able to execute any better no matter the number of plays and was forced to deal with that reality as frustrating as it was.

Ryan Day was managing a constraint. People on a message board conflate all kinds of logical fallacies and cognitive biases to try to arrive at some theory by which they fixed the problem/optimized the situation (at least in their own heads).

Managing constraints does not equal managing for optimization.

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cmstophe said:

Yeah. That’s kind of the end point being made. If you find yourself unable to maximize your skill talent and play faster whenever you face a team with a pulse, you better find out why and that is the area that needs addressed most critically. Because it was the same vs Indiana.

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Jaxbuck said:

No one is trying to.

Ask yourself which scenario requires the fewest assumptions here
1) Ryan Day was unaware that he was trailing and too stupid to know that if he just sped up he would score more points

2) Ryan Day knew he was trailing, also knew his QB and OL were not able to execute any better no matter the number of plays and was forced to deal with that reality as frustrating as it was.

Ryan Day was managing a constraint. People on a message board conflate all kinds of logical fallacies and cognitive biases to try to arrive at some theory by which they fixed the problem/optimized the situation (at least in their own heads).

Managing constraints does not equal managing for optimization.

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lvbuckeye said:

Umm. What does that say about the Buckeyes?

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jwinslow said:

Bowl records

9-4 B1G
4-2 B12
6-4 ACC
1-6 SEC vs non SEC P4
1-0 SEC vs JMU
2-2 SEC vs SEC

Michigan is their only external P4 win so far.
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cmstophe said:

Nobody will ever convince me having 3 second half possessions in a playoff game where you’re losing the entire time is tenable.

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woofermazing said:

Ouch.

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Telekinesis said:

Guess we’ll see as the playoffs unfold, but no one can convince me that our defense wasn’t the best in the nation. Should have beaten IU if our offense didn’t shoot itself in the foot over and over again. Same thing against Miami. True freshman QB and a struggling Oline will do that.

They kept an IU team in check that just demolished Alabama, so… we’ll see how Miami responds the rest of the way.

One thing I can say, and they can deny this all they want: they’ve had a bone to pick with Ohio State as a program for a LONG time. I’m sure our guys jawing before the game absolutely fueled that hatred even more. The other night they showed up in full force to quiet those demons a bit and try to earn back some pride.

Regardless, fuck ‘em.

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dragurd said:

Yeah I haven't been to game since 2018 since I moved out of state so definitely haven't seen that.

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Mike80 said:

Not if you ever saw him in warmups. Yeah he could boom them almost 60 yards, but then the next 2 would be 10 and -4. Very inconsistent leg swing.

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Zem said:

I looked up who OSU's special teams coach was this season because it's unbelievable we don't have one. Only saw Parker Fleming bio's and articles. Maybe you all know already, but he's going to UK with Will Stein for next season.

Kicking myself for not getting into football coaching, given the earning potential in the sport, regardless of the fact that I know nothing about playing the sport.

The kicker obviously won't be reliable, if there's no one there to show him the fine details, and whatever st coaches do.

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