Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[SmoovP]

Opinions differ, since we're not sure what the NCAA has actually found.

Things that may work in tOSU's favor:

1) If JT is the only person in tOSU's athletic/compliance departments that knew of the violations, he's already been penalized by having to resign.

2) TP appears to have been the biggest offender in terms of improper benefits. He's lost his senior season - when the NCAA ruled on Reggie Bush, he hadn't yet lost anything (the Heisman forfeiture came after the NCAA's initial ruling of penalties)

3) tOSU self-reported the JT transgressions after a staffer found the emails. They have apparently attempted to work with the NCAA in the process, as opposed to the defiant and stonewalling stance taken by Mike Garrett's staff at USC.

4) tOSU has had the reputation of having a model compliance department, with a full staff (6, with a pending request to increase that to 8 - something that should occur before the hearings in my opinion). USC had a small compliance staff.

5) tOSU's Letter of Allegations didn't include Lack of Institutional Control, or even the lesser 'Failure to Monitor' citation, a couple of months ago. That was based on the December admissions and JT's rules violations, but additional charges in the past few weeks caused the NCAA to conduct a further investigation. They can choose to add either charge if they found evidence that warrants it.

6) tOSU has people working on the case that are quite familiar with how the NCAA does things - but any school facing serious penalties does the same thing, so that's not something to count on.

Things that can work against tOSU:

1) The new sheriff in town, NCAA President Mark Emmert, has indicated that he wants to make those who violate the rules pay a serious penalty. His reputation is on the line in this very high profile case.

2) There will be a public outcry if the sanctions are less than those of USC, since the media feeding frenzy has given most of the nation the impression that things have been way out of control at tOSU for quite a while, and that tOSU deserves to get hit at least as hard as USC did.

3) If the NCAA uncovered hard evidence, such as checks deposited into TP's bank account by a guy that had been given tickets to games a couple of years ago, it places them on firm ground and would justify them taking a solid whack at tOSU. Right now, we don't really know if such evidence has been uncovered.

4) The press conferences tried to spin the violations as kids needing money to help their families, and JT trying to protect confidentiality. Those versions now ring very hollow, but it's hard to say how much worse that makes things in the eyes of the NCAA.

5) The allegations raised by the media in the last couple of months, (car deals, many more guys getting tattoos, TP signing things for money) make the quick investigation done by tOSU in December appear to be a gloss-over, rather than a thorough attempt to find any and all problems.

6) The NCAA has the ability to invoke the 'repeat offender' clause, which could make things much worse, since the violations were within the 5 year period following the ruling in the Jim O'Brien case. But they also had the ability to use that against USC, and didn't choose to use it.

Here's a debate that compares tOSU's situation to USC's:

CFN

That's a good rundown of the situation as it stands today.

Here's the thing that I am struck by:

Individually, nearly all of the allegations have some sort of plausible deniability toward them. But taken as a whole it's pretty overwhelming.

What it looks like to me is that some of the people (AD, compliance people, etc.) got complacent. Lulled to sleep by all the success and the reputation for doing things the right way, they seemed to have fallen asleep at the switch, thinking "We've got this covered and everything is going great. No need to get up early today, everything is just dandy. Our system works great and we'll just watch funny internet videos today. Nothing to see here".

If that is the case, it allows small, relatively insignificant bad decisions to multiply in frequency and severity. If one compliance allows a player to buy a car at 3% below book, it's pretty easy to allow the next guy to have one for 5% below book, and so on and so on and so on. It's like a perverted version of Project Scope Creep.

Pretty soon, that compliance guy is going to realize that he's dug himself a hole and the question becomes "what do I do now". Human nature dictates that most people are going to dig in, entrench and try and get away with it. Very, very few people in that situation are going to step up and say "I fuxxored this up and need to make it right". After all, he's got a career to protect and a family to feed.

It's also human nature for teenagers to make dumb decisions (or we wouldn't need compliance departments in the first place) and be selfish, self-centered and self-absorbed. Those dumb decisions can get in through the tiniest of cracks. Unless those cracks are dealt with immediately, those kids tell their friends about them and pretty soon, those tiny cracks become big cracks that then become gaping holes.

I sincerely hope that it's not as bad as it looks for OSU, but there are a lot of horse turds flying around. There has to be at the very least a little pony somewhere.

 

[NateG]

Ask USC, they brought in a ton of cash also.

The fact OSU has been working with the NCAA and not against like USC is a huge plus. I still think the NCAA is not going to come down as hard as some think. OSU is handling the issue, USC did not and their coach got the hell out of dodge.

I agree with the second part of you post for sure. Especially since the players are still here and we didn't try to sweep it all under the rug.

How big is USC's fanbase though? I think OSU's relevance did more for the Big Ten than USC's for the Pac 10. Maybe I'm off but that is why I asked. USC doesn't even have a full split in their own city. Is there place to check how big fanbases are or how much revenue the football programs brought in total? That would be a good way to measure the money side. If people love or hate the NCAA decision, they won't really care as long as they still get money. Why do you think they approved the Buckeyes to play in the Sugar Bowl? They got some of that money. I just feel it could be a big factor that no one brings up.

 

[OSUK]

Opinions differ, since we're not sure what the NCAA has actually found.

Things that may work in tOSU's favor:

1) If JT is the only person in tOSU's athletic/compliance departments that knew of the violations, he's already been penalized by having to resign.

2) TP appears to have been the biggest offender in terms of improper benefits. He's lost his senior season - when the NCAA ruled on Reggie Bush, he hadn't yet lost anything (the Heisman forfeiture came after the NCAA's initial ruling of penalties)

3) tOSU self-reported the JT transgressions after a staffer found the emails. They have apparently attempted to work with the NCAA in the process, as opposed to the defiant and stonewalling stance taken by Mike Garrett's staff at USC.

4) tOSU has had the reputation of having a model compliance department, with a full staff (6, with a pending request to increase that to 8 - something that should occur before the hearings in my opinion). USC had a small compliance staff.

5) tOSU's Letter of Allegations didn't include Lack of Institutional Control, or even the lesser 'Failure to Monitor' citation, a couple of months ago. That was based on the December admissions and JT's rules violations, but additional charges in the past few weeks caused the NCAA to conduct a further investigation. They can choose to add either charge if they found evidence that warrants it.

6) tOSU has people working on the case that are quite familiar with how the NCAA does things - but any school facing serious penalties does the same thing, so that's not something to count on.

Things that can work against tOSU:

1) The new sheriff in town, NCAA President Mark Emmert, has indicated that he wants to make those who violate the rules pay a serious penalty. His reputation is on the line in this very high profile case.

2) There will be a public outcry if the sanctions are less than those of USC, since the media feeding frenzy has given most of the nation the impression that things have been way out of control at tOSU for quite a while, and that tOSU deserves to get hit at least as hard as USC did.

3) If the NCAA uncovered hard evidence, such as checks deposited into TP's bank account by a guy that had been given tickets to games a couple of years ago, it places them on firm ground and would justify them taking a solid whack at tOSU. Right now, we don't really know if such evidence has been uncovered.

4) The press conferences tried to spin the violations as kids needing money to help their families, and JT trying to protect confidentiality. Those versions now ring very hollow, but it's hard to say how much worse that makes things in the eyes of the NCAA.

5) The allegations raised by the media in the last couple of months, (car deals, many more guys getting tattoos, TP signing things for money) make the quick investigation done by tOSU in December appear to be a gloss-over, rather than a thorough attempt to find any and all problems.

6) The NCAA has the ability to invoke the 'repeat offender' clause, which could make things much worse, since the violations were within the 5 year period following the ruling in the Jim O'Brien case. But they also had the ability to use that against USC, and didn't choose to use it.

Here's a debate that compares tOSU's situation to USC's:

CFN

I'm scared of 3 things:

1) That these media MarkMays will keep digging and hitting dirt - that we aren't near the end of the latest bombshell leading off "College Football Live".

2) That the "model" compliance dept will be found to have slid into the bureaucratic habit of seeking to make the paperwork look in order rather than really making sure things were legit. If things are found to not be legit = failure to monitor = lack of institutional control.

3) That Pryor made tens of K's on autographs and memorabilia. That's not a tat or two and a few bucks - that's Reggie Bush type trouble.

 

[germ]

I agree with the second part of you post for sure. Especially since the players are still here and we didn't try to sweep it all under the rug.

How big is USC's fanbase though? I think OSU's relevance did more for the Big Ten than USC's for the Pac 10. Maybe I'm off but that is why I asked. USC doesn't even have a full split in their own city. Is there place to check how big fanbases are or how much revenue the football programs brought in total? That would be a good way to measure the money side. If people love or hate the NCAA decision, they won't really care as long as they still get money. Why do you think they approved the Buckeyes to play in the Sugar Bowl? They got some of that money. I just feel it could be a big factor that no one brings up.

I cannot remember the number, but ESPN stated the number USC made during the Bush era. It was pretty big number, but I will agree OSU has a larger fanbase, but USC was the top dog in the Pac Ten. So the NCAA has shown they will hit the biggest and best(yes OSU is the best) program in the confernce.

 

[NateG]

I'm scared of 3 things:

1) That these media MarkMays will keep digging and hitting dirt - that we aren't near the end of the latest bombshell leading off "College Football Live".

2) That the "model" compliance dept will be found to have slid into the bureaucratic habit of seeking to make the paperwork look in order rather than really making sure things were legit. If things are found to not be legit = failure to monitor = lack of institutional control.

3) That Pryor made tens of K's on autographs and memorabilia. That's not a tat or two and a few bucks - that's Reggie Bush type trouble.

Really the only thing that could make this worse is if the TP signing for money is true and that Smith and Gee knew all about it. If that stuff hits then who knows. What would be a max penalty? Bush was purposefully bought a house for God sakes. 3 years max? I feel the university and tradition will help us get thru something like that. I am not "scared" anymore. I want the whole deal to be cleaned up. If Smith knew, tell them and let's move on. Just rip this band aid off already.

 

[NateG]

I cannot remember the number, but ESPN stated the number USC made during the Bush era. It was pretty big number, but I will agree OSU has a larger fanbase, but USC was the top dog in the Pac Ten. So the NCAA has shown they will hit the biggest and best(yes OSU is the best) program in the confernce.

Right, but will it be enough to hurt their wallets? I don't think it will.

 

[Gatorubet]

I'm scared of 3 things:

3) That Pryor made tens of K's on autographs and memorabilia. That's not a tat or two and a few bucks - that's Reggie Bush type trouble.

The validity of rumors that TP's autograph buddy had been asked to disassociate from tOSU in mid 2010 is a wildcard in this.

If it is true, and y'all knew about other improper benefits in December when the tat-gate was originally addressed, and failed to disclose it, that will be very bad.

If y'all did not know about the guy and TP signing stuff at such a volume (and presumably readily discernible - the NCAA deals in hindsight) then that could be a problem, but not a problem like knowing a guy is giving TP stuff and y'all not reporting it in December.

But that whole allegation of the 40K and the autograph sales has never really been verified. So who knows what is true on that?

 

[MaliBuckeye]

The validity of rumors that TP's autograph buddy had been asked to disassociate from tOSU in mid 2010 is a wildcard in this.

I'm going to defer to JWins on this one, but I'm guessing there are lots of ways that a photographer or person with that level of access can screw up in a way that gets their privileges revoked and gets them banned from future connections with the University.

 

[Gatorubet]

Opinions differ, since we're not sure what the NCAA has actually found.

Things that may work in tOSU's favor:

1) If JT is the only person in tOSU's athletic/compliance departments that knew of the violations, he's already been penalized by having to resign.

2) TP appears to have been the biggest offender in terms of improper benefits. He's lost his senior season - when the NCAA ruled on Reggie Bush, he hadn't yet lost anything (the Heisman forfeiture came after the NCAA's initial ruling of penalties)

3) tOSU self-reported the JT transgressions after a staffer found the emails. They have apparently attempted to work with the NCAA in the process, as opposed to the defiant and stonewalling stance taken by Mike Garrett's staff at USC.

4) tOSU has had the reputation of having a model compliance department, with a full staff (6, with a pending request to increase that to 8 - something that should occur before the hearings in my opinion). USC had a small compliance staff.

5) tOSU's Letter of Allegations didn't include Lack of Institutional Control, or even the lesser 'Failure to Monitor' citation, a couple of months ago. That was based on the December admissions and JT's rules violations, but additional charges in the past few weeks caused the NCAA to conduct a further investigation. They can choose to add either charge if they found evidence that warrants it.

6) tOSU has people working on the case that are quite familiar with how the NCAA does things - but any school facing serious penalties does the same thing, so that's not something to count on.

Things that can work against tOSU:

1) The new sheriff in town, NCAA President Mark Emmert, has indicated that he wants to make those who violate the rules pay a serious penalty. His reputation is on the line in this very high profile case.

2) There will be a public outcry if the sanctions are less than those of USC, since the media feeding frenzy has given most of the nation the impression that things have been way out of control at tOSU for quite a while, and that tOSU deserves to get hit at least as hard as USC did.

3) If the NCAA uncovered hard evidence, such as checks deposited into TP's bank account by a guy that had been given tickets to games a couple of years ago, it places them on firm ground and would justify them taking a solid whack at tOSU. Right now, we don't really know if such evidence has been uncovered.

4) The press conferences tried to spin the violations as kids needing money to help their families, and JT trying to protect confidentiality. Those versions now ring very hollow, but it's hard to say how much worse that makes things in the eyes of the NCAA.

5) The allegations raised by the media in the last couple of months, (car deals, many more guys getting tattoos, TP signing things for money) make the quick investigation done by tOSU in December appear to be a gloss-over, rather than a thorough attempt to find any and all problems.

6) The NCAA has the ability to invoke the 'repeat offender' clause, which could make things much worse, since the violations were within the 5 year period following the ruling in the Jim O'Brien case. But they also had the ability to use that against USC, and didn't choose to use it.

Here's a debate that compares tOSU's situation to USC's:

CFN

Very well written and concise capsule Bill.

One sad result of this will be the NCAA absolutely excoriating Coach Tressel. Thinking about it, I really see no way that they won't use some very harsh and unflattering language describing his actions in connection with entering a show cause against him for a year or two.

For a proud man that has done so much good over the years, it will be a terrible blow for him to endure.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

I'm going to defer to JWins on this one, but I'm guessing there are lots of ways that a photographer or person with that level of access can screw up in a way that gets their privileges revoked and gets them banned from future connections with the University.

the Deniable plausability lies in saying he was selling photographs with out permission......just a guess

 

[BUCKYLE]

Very well written and concise capsule Bill.

One sad result of this will be the NCAA absolutely excoriating Coach Tressel. Thinking about it, I really see no way that they won't use some very harsh and unflattering language describing his actions in connection with entering a show cause against him for a year or two.

For a proud man that has done so much good over the years, it will be a terrible blow for him to endure.

No, it won't. If he's the man I believe he is, some harsh language from people that don't have the kids' best interests at heart will mean as much to him as most of your posts do to me. :p

Seriously though, the worst part of this for JT, in my imo, is that he is now unable to help kids on the scale he previously has.

That's also the worst part for Ohio, Ohio State, and most importantly, the future student-athletes at tOSU.

The NCAA can eat a dick as far as their harsh language or talking down to JT are concerned.

 

[jwinslow]

I'm going to defer to JWins on this one, but I'm guessing there are lots of ways that a photographer or person with that level of access can screw up in a way that gets their privileges revoked and gets them banned from future connections with the University.

Sell a couple of OSU fb photos (even to the family)
Use the photos for any purpose besides media coverage

You don't have to be a scumbag to get your press credentials removed. They are very stingy (and understandably so) about offering them.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I'm scared of 3 things:

1) That these media MarkMays will keep digging and hitting dirt - that we aren't near the end of the latest bombshell leading off "College Football Live".

Well, if the media is "hitting" paydirt, then the MarkMays would be on the Ohio State side of the equation, not the media's. What are they supposed to do? Ignore the story, so our football program can go merrily along?

Like with any investigative story, you have journalists of varying talents, integrity and agendas. At times, some have overreached and misreported aspects of what's going on. Overall, they've been on the mark and exposed a shitstorm of rules violations and mismanagement in our football program and athletic department.

We're getting what we deserve. The agenda that I have a problem with lies with those in the football program and athletic department who thought they could break the rules and/or cover up knowledge of that rule breaking. Don't want to do the time? Don't do the fucking crime.

 

[gregorylee]

No, it won't. If he's the man I believe he is, some harsh language from people that don't have the kids' best interests at heart will mean as much to him as most of your posts do to me. :p

Seriously though, the worst part of this for JT, in my imo, is that he is now unable to help kids on the scale he previously has.

That's also the worst part for Ohio, Ohio State, and most importantly, the future student-athletes at tOSU.

The NCAA can eat a dick as far as their harsh language or talking down to JT are concerned.

redundant much?

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

redundant much?

Your not keeping up, greg. You're constitution towards the Beaver is weak, in my imo.