Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[ORD_Buckeye]

I agree with that one one level, but athletics also bring an element of fun to academics.

Going to school without a football and basketball team to get invested in would be pretty dry.

Following our teams after we graduate keeps us invested in the university.

Athletics are perhaps too powerful, and even at times out of control, but it would be a sad day - and a duller world - if we were to disassociate athletics and academics.

There are thousand upon thousands of graduates of Chicago, Cal Tech, MIT and the like who probably enjoyed their college years every bit as much as we did and support their alma maters every bit as much as we do. In fact giving rates of alumni would strongly argue that they support their alma maters more than do graduates of even the best public universities.

Hell, I knew plenty of undergrads at Ohio State who didn't give two [Mark May]s about football or basketball and got just as much out of the school as I did.

 

[Bucklion]

I've always maintained that big time athletics is corrupting to higher education. There's corruption with a big "C" such as Switzer's Oklahoma, SMU and USC. There's also corruption with a small "c," and that's pretty much the fact that these athletic departments--which really serve zero purpose to a university's core mission--have grown too big and encroached too much on schools' primary missions. Given the exponential rate of growth in the money involved (and subsequent pressure to keep feeding the beast), it's only a matter of time before even the best programs get swept away into the morass.

Yes, as a die-hard fan of a big time program, that makes me a hypocrite. That's up to me to reconcile.

I've always agreed with this, at least to an extent, which is why I cared for Andy Geiger significantly less than the vast majority of people seemed to. I think he personifed this more than anyone else I saw (the second half, not SMU, etc.)

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I've always agreed with this, at least to an extent, which is why I cared for Andy Geiger significantly less than the vast majority of people seemed to. I think he personifed this more than anyone else I saw (the second half, not SMU, etc.)

I think that I'm going to research the rate of growth--using Woody's last year as the benchmark--in the athletic department's budget, the football coach's salary and compare it to the growth rate of the university's overall budget, the president's salary and the average salary of a full time, tenured professor. It might be interesting (troubling?).

 

[cjmik_75]

Ouch.

When Barry Switzer defends you...

Good ole SWC Anyone?

Hey there buddy, that's an ex-Hog you're talkin' bout.

I thought he was an ex-hog...

We don't really claim him.

Well, isn't that special? :tongue2:

Problem solved.


/END THREAD

 

[zincfinger]

Cicero behaved unethically and inappropriately by reporting hearsay to Tressel, thereby putting Tressel on the horns of a dilemma

Cicero behaved badly toward his client, but I don't see how he behaved badly toward Tressel, the football program, or OSU. From the sound of it, the guy basically betrayed his client and jeopardized his own career in order to try to help Jim Tressel and the OSU football program. I agree that that's not the right thing to do, but it was wrong toward Rife, not toward Tressel or OSU, and I don't see how it gives OSU football fans any cause to be upset at Cicero.

 

[Gatorubet]

I've always agreed with this, at least to an extent, which is why I cared for Andy Geiger significantly less than the vast majority of people seemed to. I think he personified this more than anyone else I saw (the second half, not SMU, etc.)

Urban's comments about the last five years becoming more about win at all cost does coincide - to an extent - with the rise and signing of the monster network deals with the Big-10 and the SEC and Texas, etc.

The amount of money flowing into our coffers now dwarfs anything that we previously saw. IOW, the stakes got raised from bragging rights and a slight recruiting bump from it, to a gigantic corporate monster with more than one head, with one of the heads being the Conference, one being the network, and another being the institution telling its head coach to make sure that he got to a BCS game.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Urban's comments about the last five years becoming more about win at all cost does coincide - to an extent - with the rise and signing of the monster network deals with the Big-10 and the SEC and Texas, etc.

The amount of money flowing into our coffers now dwarfs anything that we previously saw. IOW, the stakes got raised from bragging rights and a slight recruiting bump from it, to a gigantic corporate monster with more than one head, with one of the heads being the Conference, one being the network, and another being the institution telling its head coach to make sure that he got to a BCS game.

This is the road I've been waiting to go down in discussing this mess.

Just too much $$ anymore, which leads to too much pressure to win. Either they use this time to clean it up (not going to happen) or lets just go full frontal semi pro and quit the student athlete pretense bullshit.

This country has vocational schools, Europeans have sports clinics for young athletes. It can be made to work.

 

[Gatorubet]

Cicero behaved badly toward his client, but I don't see how he behaved badly toward Tressel, the football program, or OSU. From the sound of it, the guy basically betrayed his client and jeopardized his own career in order to try to help Jim Tressel and the OSU football program. I agree that that's not the right thing to do, but it was wrong toward Rife, not toward Tressel or OSU, and I don't see how it gives OSU football fans any cause to be upset at Cicero.

Cicero made his own bed when he divulged privileged client communications. But his motivation was to protect the program from getting in trouble.

 

[zincfinger]

Cicero made his own bed when he divulged privileged client communications. But his motivation was to protect the program from getting in trouble.

Certainly, I'm not suggesting Cicero has anyone but himself to blame for the professional trouble I expect he'll be in. Just that the wrong he did wasn't toward OSU, and it makes no sense for OSU football fans to be upset at him (unless OSU fans generally feel very passionately about attorney-client privilege).

 

[shetuck]

Urban's comments about the last five years becoming more about win at all cost does coincide - to an extent - with the rise and signing of the monster network deals with the Big-10 and the SEC and Texas, etc.

The amount of money flowing into our coffers now dwarfs anything that we previously saw. IOW, the stakes got raised from bragging rights and a slight recruiting bump from it, to a gigantic corporate monster with more than one head, with one of the heads being the Conference, one being the network, and another being the institution telling its head coach to make sure that he got to a BCS game.

This is partly why one of the most uncomfortable parts of Tuesday's press conference for me was when EGG was conveying (felt like he was almost "honouring") JT's financial impact and contributions to the tOSU.

I just felt like that was beyond the pale of a Q&A related to a Head Football coach. I realize he was using it to paint a framework for his "body of work" argument, but it still felt a little slimy to me from a group of guys I have a great deal of admiration and respect.

And then he took it even further - too far - when he failed at his attempt at self-deprication when he (EGG) said that not only had he not considered dismissing JT, but that he was just hoping that JT would not dismiss him.

That groundwork had to have been because of the upcoming capital campaign and JT's huge role in it. It just felt a little slimy to me.

 

[shetuck]

Cicero made his own bed when he divulged privileged client communications. But his motivation was to protect the program from getting in trouble.

If that was his motivation (and I'm not trying to start a Cicero lynch mob here) why didn't the dude just pick up the phone and call?

I'm sure that's what he would advise any of his clients to do for plausible deniability in cases where the nature of the information, when divulged, would poison the pot.

 

[Gatorubet]

And then he took it even further - too far - when he failed at his attempt at self-deprication when he (EGG) said that not only had he not considered dismissing JT, but that he was just hoping that JT would not dismiss him.

That groundwork had to have been because of the upcoming capital campaign and JT huge role in it. It just felt a little slimy to me.

And not an easy statement to defend in any future lack of institutional control charge.

If that was his motivation (and I'm not trying to start a Cicero lynch mob here) why didn't the dude just pick up the phone and call?

Nobody said lawyers =/= idiots.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

And then he took it even further - too far - when he failed at his attempt at self-deprication when he (EGG) said that not only had he not considered dismissing JT, but that he was just hoping that JT would not dismiss him.

No bigger Gee supporter than me, but that was the stupidest fucking thing that's ever come out of his mouth.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

This is just like the consolidation of big banks in the early 2000's and 90's and these programs will have life spans like them up and down.....I thought we were JPMorgan and USC was CITIBank...they are still there but trading at 2 dollars a share.....ND and Michigan are 5th third and Nat City.....Auburn is Suntrust


I mean this like banking used to be relegated to staunch buttoned up regional institutions that only sold deposit products and loans were conservative and mortgages required 20% down.....Then as these conglomorates grew and started investing in risky assets such as mortgage backed securities or bought mortgages from third party brokers things got crazy and the money got big and regulators couldnt regulate....im sure you can draw more parallels

 

[Systems_id]

For another, I worry that since this is so out of character for JT I wonder if either the pressure got to him or if perhaps he may be slipping a bit?

This is also another thing I've been thinking about pretty often. I wonder if the big game losses took a far harsher toll on Tress then we know about. I'm sure he knows his job was never in jeopardy but, by many accounts, Tressel is still a very competitive man. I'm sure he wanted another NC more than all Buckeye fans put together and to see that possibly go down the drain had to have ate at him.

I've never been under the illusion that OSU's athletics are totally clean, as EVERY organization out there has their dirty little secrets, but I still firmly believe that we have one of, if not THE cleanest athletics programs out there right now. I honestly believe that more than ever now after this situation. Any other program would of easily swept this under the rug.

It is the drum I have been beating for some time. It is ALL about the money. You can't be passing around hundreds of millions of dollars with all these nonsense rules about amateurism and not see your house of cards teeter.

You may argue that JT was not motivated by money - but that misses the point. The players you must recruit, the compromises you must make, to compete at the highest level (those top 5 spots) directly lead to the same result in a myriad of forms.

And for all of our self righteous arguments (myself included) about being all-in or not all-in, pretty much all of us come to this board to follow a team that we expect to compete at that level.

QFT