What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[Woody1968]

I am a little confused but what is new. Saturday evening while watching a Buckeye post game show Matt Finkes said that the reason that the defense has improved is because they had become more aggressive and he contributed that to Withers and Fickell. He said that both of them approached Urban and told him that they want to be more aggressive. I always thought that Urban told both of them to become more aggressive. I do not know and that is why I am confused. It would seem like Finkes would have some insight into the football program but I do not know that for sure either.

That D-Line of Finkes Fickell and Vrabel was awesome.

 

[LitlBuck]

I think Finkes is a little dislexic. I catch him bungling quotes and such often on that show.. it's like he is a deer in the headlights eveytime he is on. Not sure what you can take from his comments, but I do know that it was printed in the Dispatch weeks ago that Urban wanted an agressive attacking defense and felt our defense was not getting the job done in that way. I saw that in the paper in written form.

possibly too many hits to the helmet

 

[kujirakira]

As part of the same Buckeye teams, I'd think he'd have some inside info -- and perhaps also an interest in putting Fickell in a good light.
Not that I think Fickell needs protecting or anything; just the first thing that comes to mind is that he may have personally decided to spin the story a bit out of loyalty.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I'm not so sure that Finkes was wrong. I know what Urban has said. I also know what Fick coached defenses of the past looked like. I mean, from Pagac to Snyder to Dantonio to Heacock/Fickel, they always seemed to be aggressive, attacking, nasty D's. From my pov, the first time tOSU's D seemed to play soft is in the first half of Urban's first two years as HC. I know it's pure speculation on my part, and maybe someone who knows more about X's & O's than I do can refute this, but I think maybe Urban likes to play a softer style of D while the offense finds it's identity. Try to keep the opponent's run game in check, forcing mostly low rated college QB's to try and beat tOSU thru the air. Then when he feels the offense is humming, release the hounds and attack. It's also a good way to get the defense to learn different styles and schemes against what should be inferior opponents. I know it sounds a little nutty, but otherwise it would seem Urban's DC's have gone rogue two years in a row, but only for the first half of each season.

 

[C-busBuck]

I'm not so sure that Finkes was wrong. I know what Urban has said. I also know what Fick coached defenses of the past looked like. I mean, from Pagac to Snyder to Dantonio to Heacock/Fickel, they always seemed to be aggressive, attacking, nasty D's. From my pov, the first time tOSU's D seemed to play soft is in the first half of Urban's first two years as HC. I know it's pure speculation on my part, and maybe someone who knows more about X's & O's than I do can refute this, but I think maybe Urban likes to play a softer style of D while the offense finds it's identity. Try to keep the opponent's run game in check, forcing mostly low rated college QB's to try and beat tOSU thru the air. Then when he feels the offense is humming, release the hounds and attack. It's also a good way to get the defense to learn different styles and schemes against what should be inferior opponents. I know it sounds a little nutty, but otherwise it would seem Urban's DC's have gone rogue two years in a row, but only for the first half of each season.

I think if you look at his Florida defenses and remembering the hurting his defense put on the Bucks in the NCG, I know he likes an aggressive and attacking defense. I am not sure what Wither's adds to this though. Nobody seems to talk about him in all this mix much, but he is Co-Defensive Coordinator. I am sure he has input into the defensive schemes.

 

[pnuts34]

I think if you look at his Florida defenses and remembering the hurting his defense put on the Bucks in the NCG, I know he likes an aggressive and attacking defense. I am not sure what Wither's adds to this though. Nobody seems to talk about him in all this mix much, but he is Co-Defensive Coordinator. I am sure he has input into the defensive schemes.

Agreed. It seems like fickell takes all the heat, but withers is hardly mentioned. And IMO, our biggest problems were our secondary and most specifically our safeties, and that's where withers coaches. I haven't looked at any of his games that he coached at unc, but know he was a great recruiter and brought in some of their best defensive players(Marvin Austin, quinton coples, etc) but unfamiliar with his schemes. But urban definitely loved bringing the heat to opposing QBs, usually with DEs and an athletic LB that blitzed and was flanked by 2 very flood run stopping LBs

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

SACKS BY G-No-Yards
1.Nebraska 9-30-210
2.Ohio State 9-26-177
3.Michigan State 9-25-165
4.Wisconsin 9-22-116

Looks like the Buckeyes will lead the conference in sacks this year. It wouldn't even be close if Nebraska and MSU hadn't played scUM yet. Wisconsin doesn't get the chance so my money is on the Bucks!

 

[kippy1040]

Agreed. It seems like fickell takes all the heat, but withers is hardly mentioned. And IMO, our biggest problems were our secondary and most specifically our safeties, and that's where withers coaches. I haven't looked at any of his games that he coached at unc, but know he was a great recruiter and brought in some of their best defensive players(Marvin Austin, quinton coples, etc) but unfamiliar with his schemes. But urban definitely loved bringing the heat to opposing QBs, usually with DEs and an athletic LB that blitzed and was flanked by 2 very flood run stopping LBs

I really liked your view in this post. With Christian Bryant not being in the line-up, I can't help but think what back up is best to take his place. Withers hopefully will be able to work on that area. Maybe Brown can fill that position.

 

[Yertle]

I know we're all giddy about how the defense has made a turnaround in the last two games (or since halftime of Iowa...), but I'm not buying it yet. Yeah, they poo-stomped two freshmen QB's. One of which plays for one of the worst teams in all of the FBS. That's nothing to get excited about. I do like the change in scheme with more blitzes and tight coverage, but let's not get too happy with the D's performance. And after we blow Illinois away this weekend, it still tells me very little. I'll be much more convinced when (if) this defense can hold Indiana under 20 points. My money is on the over right now. Sorry, but I'm not drinking the koolaid... yet.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I know we're all giddy about how the defense has made a turnaround in the last two games (or since halftime of Iowa...), but I'm not buying it yet. Yeah, they poo-stomped two freshmen QB's. One of which plays for one of the worst teams in all of the FBS. That's nothing to get excited about. I do like the change in scheme with more blitzes and tight coverage, but let's not get too happy with the D's performance. And after we blow Illinois away this weekend, it still tells me very little. I'll be much more convinced when (if) this defense can hold Indiana under 20 points. My money is on the over right now. Sorry, but I'm not drinking the koolaid... yet.

There's a vast improvement whether you're buying it or not. The D of the past few games would have shut Cal down and made the NW game much less exciting.

 

[Yertle]

I hope you're right. I think we'll know how far they've come after the next two games though, and nothing would make me happier to admit I'm wrong. But ripping apart PSU and Purdue don't tell me much.

 

[pnuts34]

I hope you're right. I think we'll know how far they've come after the next two games though, and nothing would make me happier to admit I'm wrong. But ripping apart PSU and Purdue don't tell me much.

Alabama tearing apart teams like UK and Arkansas, is equivalent to what our defense did to PSU and purdue, IMO. I don't see how one team is elite but then the other isn't. Are you basing it on our earlier struggles against wisky, cal, etc?

 

[kujirakira]

LSU didn't have too many struggles against 'Bamas defense. LSU beat themselves in the first half with easy turnovers, and then just gave up after the obvious fake punt.
If anything, I think Alabama's play style is a more straightforward matchup for us than FSU. Alabama is still fundamentally a run-first, and that's what our defense seems most comfortable dealing with. Their ability to grind the ball behind their OLine in the 2nd half won't matter too much if they're already trailing.
There's a lot to stop with Winston, on the other hand. It'd probably be much easier to pressure Winston into mistakes... but if the pressure doesn't materialize and he gets on fire... it would turn into a shootout fast. I don't like shootouts. Shootouts make me nervous mmkay. The biggest thing that I think would work in our favor there is if he wins the Heisman, and all those December award banquets and "FSU will crush Ohio State" headlines get to their heads...
Other than that, we either get to play "Stanford Ball" against Stanford; or a 2010 re-match I guess. In which case I have a feeling the media would still give us plenty of bulletin board material.

 

[pnuts34]

LSU didn't have too many struggles against 'Bamas defense. LSU beat themselves in the first half with easy turnovers, and then just gave up after the obvious fake punt.
If anything, I think Alabama's play style is a more straightforward matchup for us than FSU. Alabama is still fundamentally a run-first, and that's what our defense seems most comfortable dealing with. Their ability to grind the ball behind their OLine in the 2nd half won't matter too much if they're already trailing.
There's a lot to stop with Winston, on the other hand. It'd probably be much easier to pressure Winston into mistakes... but if the pressure doesn't materialize and he gets on fire... it would turn into a shootout fast. I don't like shootouts. Shootouts make me nervous mmkay. The biggest thing that I think would work in our favor there is if he wins the Heisman, and all those December award banquets and "FSU will crush Ohio State" headlines get to their heads...
Other than that, we either get to play "Stanford Ball" against Stanford; or a 2010 re-match I guess. In which case I have a feeling the media would still give us plenty of bulletin board material.

I agree with your takes, but Alabama has an o line that is really really tough. Other than that, I don't see many mismatches they can cause with their offense. If we can pressure mccarron that sets up nice, but their run game dictates their offense and they like to use those big uglies to tire out defenses(see last years NC) and take LBs out of games. If we can get up early, then that changes things up. You're right that LSU shot themselves in the foot with turnovers.
If Miami could keep it close with FSU for a half, then I like what we can do against fsu as well. Pressure Winston into mistakes because he's their entire offense. We can stop their RBs, but if Winston gets hot, that could be tough, we need constant pressure on him. But I think our offense can score on either defense, we have enough speed at the skill positions to create much more mismatches. I'm personally glad to face either team, but I'd much rather face Alabama and end the sec reign, and get the monkey off of our backs that Osu can't beat sec teams.
Stanford is a poor mans Alabama, and I think we could handle them. We won't be pushed around like Oregon.
None of these defenses have seen a RB like Carlos Hyde, or a QB that plays as athletic, but no longer needs to rely solely on his athleticism like Braxton. Between devin, Philly, Jeff, Evan and nick in our WR and TE corps, we have some very good skill position players that will break the sec speed myth on national tv.

 

[Yertle]

Alabama tearing apart teams like UK and Arkansas, is equivalent to what our defense did to PSU and purdue, IMO. I don't see how one team is elite but then the other isn't. Are you basing it on our earlier struggles against wisky, cal, etc?

Not really sure where I compared us to Alabama or even made reference to them. Didn't call us non-elite either. I was just saying that it appears that the Buckeye fan base has gone from "THE SKY IS FALLING" to "EVERYTHING IS FIXED SO LOOK OUT WORLD" with regards to our defense. I'm still in the "show me more" camp because throwing two freshmen QB's to the curb isn't enough for me.