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tOSU Recruiting Discussion

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OH10 said:
Well, that's one way of turning a blind eye.
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Not turning a blind eye at all. Your questions are good ones to raise. But I doubt you'll find any accurate answers to them here - only conjecture. Rather than spending my energy and time wringing my hands over questions that I will never have nearly enough inside information to answer, I choose to try to enjoy Buckeye football and hope that the coaches really do make every effort possible to help every kid succeed.

There is one truth that I don't need scarlet-colored glasses to see plainly: football players' grades have gotten much better since Urban Meyer got here and many, many kids are going onto successful NFL and non-NFL lives after Buckeye football.
 
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The trust the coaching thing is a cop out. We were all up in arms over this when the SEC was doing it a decade ago. Since nobody stopped them, everybody else started doing it to. It's slimy, but within the rules. So we do it to, and now we as fans excuse it away when the same action had our skin crawling in 2009.
 
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buckeye4ever21 said:
I think you're confused. We're at the number currently! The 20 man recruiting class won't be reflected till next season with only 6 seniors graduating. So before the 2017 season is what everyone is worried about.
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You missed my point. 2 months ago people wondered how OSU would get to 85, then 3 schollies opened up after a transfer, academic ineligibility, and code of conduct violation. There will be a lot more scholarships open up by this time next year, besides the 6 seniors leaving.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
The trust the coaching thing is a cop out. We were all up in arms over this when the SEC was doing it a decade ago. Since nobody stopped them, everybody else started doing it to. It's slimy, but within the rules. So we do it to, and now we as fans excuse it away when the same action had our skin crawling in 2009.
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BN27. Not really a cop out about trusting the coaches. What choice do we have? : ). I agree about how we reacted when SEC teams did it but what some of those teams did was pretty extreme when some were bringing in 27-28 player classes while sending other players packing. I would have to do some research on each SEC team on additions and attritions over a period of time. I recall some of the discussions being animate.

While OSU appears to be doing it, it appears not as drastic as some of the SEC teams. Young men are graduating, some are medical hardships (still getting their degrees) while others are making the grade but were not as good as originally thought and the coaches help them land on their feet at another school. Then there is the usual attrition of students not making the grade, inability (or unwillingness) to handle the life of a student / athlete and the normal trials and tribulations of young adulthood that some do not overcome.

Some of the things that have happened in the past made me cringe a bit (One is the Jamaal Dean recruitment. it's kind of weird being that I cannot recall any situation in the past where OSU deferred to a medical staff on a players health). Maybe it's the sign of the times.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
The trust the coaching thing is a cop out. We were all up in arms over this when the SEC was doing it a decade ago. Since nobody stopped them, everybody else started doing it to. It's slimy, but within the rules. So we do it to, and now we as fans excuse it away when the same action had our skin crawling in 2009.
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Quite right. It is a moral dilemma. I don't personally excuse it away; I simply recognize that I don't have the answers. Nor do I have the ability to find the answers. My dad, a former football coach, and I have discussed this ad nauseum and have not come up with any answers. The questions we have come up with include:

1. Without access to inside info, how could one prove incontrovertibly that shady stuff is going on inside the Buckeye (or any other) football program? All we have is conjecture and assumptions.

2. If I were, in fact, able to prove it, what would I do about it? Send email complaints to the university, the NCAA, the coach, etc.? Stop watching the Bucks/buying tickets? Stop watching football altogether?

It is worth discussing this elephant in the room. In the end though, I don't know that, in this forum, the discussion will result in conclusive facts. Only opinions, guesses, and more questions.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
The trust the coaching thing is a cop out. We were all up in arms over this when the SEC was doing it a decade ago. Since nobody stopped them, everybody else started doing it to. It's slimy, but within the rules. So we do it to, and now we as fans excuse it away when the same action had our skin crawling in 2009.
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I don't think its a cop out saying, but it's something as fans we must do. Since we're not the actual coaches. College Football has never ever been not shady! Just the SEC(and schools in the south in general) led the way in the eyes of many. Coaches have been using shady methods to get the best kids since colleges found out how much money could be made with TV contracts and winning titles. The student athlete joke has been used for so long and eyes have rolled about its term for decades. A great book I read about this was: The Courting of Marcus Dupree, where the writer told of numerous coaches who would use scandalous methods to recruit, keep the best players eligible and the ones not cutting found their ways out the door. At the end of the day, we're fans who want our team to win, all we can do in the end is trust the coaches will do their best to be not as shady as their counterparts, but still able to win big games and bring more titles to our school. That's just being honest. No the kids don't get paid(which is a shame) but billions of dollars are at stake every year and they're dependent on the legs and arms of 18-22yos.


ShowMeBuck said:
Yeah, that's the toughest question for me in the whole "who would you take for the last spot" scenario this year: (LB) Browning/Hines, (RB) Akers, (DB) Holmes/L Wade, or (DT) Tufele - I do not think Wilson is realistic but if he is, insert him here.

Choosing for the last few spots speaks to need as much/more than talent of each player vs each other IMO as everyone mentioned is a total stud.

Assuming 5 spots left as a guesstimate, the math isn't hard for remaining spots.

As stated by most: Grimes, Lindsey, Okudah seem to be in the class. They are all elite and needed.

So that leaves just 2 spots.

I personally think Akers is a game changer of the type that wins championships, the RB spot is so crucial, and our depth is so thin he absolutely makes my list if available. Before anyone mentions incoming guys like McCall, he is a HB/Pivot to me. And yes, the class has Dobbins who I love, but you can't have too many good/great RBs.

So that leaves me one more spot with a really, really tough choice.

After much deliberation I'd narrowly take Tufele.

Many have mentioned how hard it is to land elite DTs (tOSU can attest) and how much they impact the game. When a team can continue to pound you up the middle with a run game they can really neutralize your preferred offensive goals of up tempo, etc.

While Homes and L Wade are elite DBs (especially Holmes), you can hardly call the position a 'need' in this class so not sure it makes sense to use the "last spot" here. That's assuming S Wade sticks however so you keep recruiting and admittedly you don't say no if they want to join.

With Browning/Hines.......both total studs, and the position is less full in this class than DBs are but probably even with the DB overall team depth, so not a major need. But, if Browning and Okudah are a package deal of sorts that might be a difference maker.

So, in the end I guess I would have a harder time saying no to Akers and en elite DT because of the impact those positions have in the game and viewed against current depth and role within the '17 class.

(Just hearing how spoiled I sound at this rationale is comical but......blame Urban)
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With 5 spots left: Okudah, Grimes and Lindsey DEFINITELY IN
Remaining 2: Tufele and Browning/Hines

Defense wins championships. Akers could be a very good-great RB, but so can Dobbins. And in our offense, a RB/HB like McCall can also be very productive in this offense. With Wilson graduating after this season, and if he breaks out Samuel going to the NFL, I could still see opportunities for McCall and Campbell in spurts at RB to go with Weber, Williams and Dobbins. And don't forget that the QB will also get some carries as well. And bubble screens are also variations in the run game but utilizing the WR. I'd prefer that the team was solid in the middle with Tufele and had constant LB depth with big, athletic LBs. I agree that DB isn't a need anymore with the amount of DBs in the 2017 class now, but if say Holmes were to commit before any of the other 2, TAKE HIM, and don't look back.
 
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Meyer mentioned that they've already had to say no to 4 and 5 star guys who are good kids. He also said that they've been very upfront with kids, telling them that "If player X goes pro, then we'll have room for you." The good thing about this is the staff will have a month after the season concludes to get the numbers lined up. On the flip side, in a few years, we're going to have a couple massive recruiting classes.
 
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Take out the guys out of eligibility and we have 6 spots.

Out of the junior eligibility, we'll see probably 4-5 declare and 4-5 graduate and not be renewed, call it 9. Not guessing names, just looking position by position and we have a ton of freshman and sophomores that have the potential to overtake some of our juniors or already have. If you're graduating and wouldn't start in your 5th year then it's better for everyone involved to play where you can start. The coaches probably have a good idea who out of the RSJr/Jr class won't be back and a recruiting their replacements.

Out of our sophomore eligibility most of them will be 3 years removed, I'll bet 2-3 declare. 2 of the WR could go (no idea who just the bulk of our WR corps are RS SOs, and I'd bet that at least 1 will be ready to declare). Hubbard was our #3 DE last year and really impressed when he was in, and there are a few other guys that COULD make a huge step and be ready. This won't be known until the last few games of the season.
That's a class of 17-18 that can be pretty well predicted.

Then we have a HUGE freshman and RS freshman class. A ton are out of state and someone might realize they don't like being far away from home. We realistically always will have kids that break team rules and there are injuries. There are always young guys that expected to see the field as freshman and sophomores and don't so they transfer. Those aren't typically kids that the coaches as to leave as they could take the next step, but choose to leave. Not crazy to see 4-5 spots open up out of the freshman class. The coaches probably just have a guess as to how many won't be back, but it will clear up as the season moves on.

It's not hard to get to 21, but that IS expecting 6-8 declare early. I don't like to see kids not asked back, but I don't think we do that to kids that haven't graduated, and don't have any of that included in my 21. After signing day we'll probably have something like 87, and then we'll see some summer stupidity.
 
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TampaBuckeyes said:
It's not hard to get to 21, but that IS expecting 6-8 declare early.
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It seems like a lot of people are expecting to see 6+ NFL early entries. OSU has had 3 or more leave early only 3 times in school history and that seems to happen only once a decade (3 in '95 & '06; 9 in '15).

For the record, I'd love to see 6 guys play well enough this year that they have to leave. Would I bet on it? Nope.
 
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bucknut11 said:
It seems like a lot of people are expecting to see 6+ NFL early entries. OSU has had 3 or more leave early only 3 times in school history and that seems to happen only once a decade (3 in '95 & '06; 9 in '15).

For the record, I'd love to see 6 guys play well enough this year that they have to leave. Would I bet on it? Nope.
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What happened even 10 years ago is irrelevant. The landscape has changed. Early entries have increased drastically over the years. It's no longer just projected 1st rounders going early. It's players unlikely to improve their stock with another year who are willing to go.
 
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OregonBuckeye said:
What happened even 10 years ago is irrelevant. The landscape has changed. Early entries have increased drastically over the years. It's no longer just projected 1st rounders going early. It's players unlikely to improve their stock with another year who are willing to go.
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Ok, here are the modern Meyer-era numbers:
2012: 0
2013: 1
2014: 2
2015: 9

Time and change will surely show if 6-9 is the new norm or if last year's historic class was an outlier.
 
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These are players who look to play a significant role this year who can possibly turn pro next year.

Barrett
Baugh
Booker
Campbell
N. Brown
Conley
M. Hill
Holmes
Hooker
Hubbard
J. Jones
Lattimore
Lewis
McLaurin
McMillan
Price
Samuel
E. Smith
Sprinkle
Webb
Worley

All of them aren't leaving, of course, but you can definitely make a case for 6-8 of those guys leaving.
 
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