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Amazing that you think it's delusional that government intervention has transformed community and responsibility to it. I would argue that your viewpoint is part of the problem and is leading the charge for why the problem has grown larger under the Feds watch.

It's popular to blame everything the government does as wrong or inept. I think that's an over-reaction coming from conservatives mostly. But the point is that communities have just gone through a bad Recession and many families are suffering and out of work for years now. Where are the communities creating jobs or feeding those in need? There are none. They just are not capable, at least right now of doing such things. A local church has a table, once a week. I applaud them for that. But, that is once a week!
12.8 million people. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
So, who is going to feed people or create jobs? It falls on our Congress, our elected officials, our elected government, to do such things when necessary.
 
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It's popular to blame everything the government does as wrong or inept. I think that's an over-reaction coming from conservatives mostly. But the point is that communities have just gone through a bad Recession and many families are suffering and out of work for years now. Where are the communities creating jobs or feeding those in need? There are none. They just are not capable, at least right now of doing such things. A local church has a table, once a week. I applaud them for that. But, that is once a week!
12.5 million people.

How little you understand the churches and communities in this country.

So, who is going to feed people or create jobs? It falls on our Congress, our elected officials, our elected government, to do such things when necessary.

You're thinking that if we throw enough money at programs that have failed for 50 years will fix something. You're absolutely, totally, irrevocably wrong. And yes, short of killing people and breaking things in battle, our government is hilariously inept at EVERYTHING it does.

EDIT: I'll predict the response: Evil Republicans, racist conservatives, vote in the same corrupt bastards that are already there just change the names, blah blah blah.
 
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It's popular to blame everything the government does as wrong or inept. I think that's an over-reaction coming from conservatives mostly.
Another adorable broad sweeping stereotype that you clutch to while complaining about hard-line conservatives being closed minded about the other side of the aisle. It also pretends that the country - democratic, republican and the ignored moderates - isn't absolutely fed up with the government and has no faith in its ability to do basic things let alone very difficult tasks like welfare and healthcare.
But the point is that communities have just gone through a bad Recession and many families are suffering and out of work for years now. Where are the communities creating jobs or feeding those in need? There are none. They just are not capable, at least right now of doing such things. A local church has a table, once a week. I applaud them for that. But, that is once a week!
12.8 million people. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
So, who is going to feed people or create jobs? It falls on our Congress, our elected officials, our elected government, to do such things when necessary.
Not when Congress' goal is to preserve Congress at the expense of true democracy and a healthy country.

It's fun that when the government fails miserably to support the poor and needy (both in addressing the need and helping them to pull themselves up), it doesn't point to the ineffectiveness of the government, it just means they need a different approach. (and anyone arguing otherwise is likely a misguided conservative)
 
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So, who is going to feed people or create jobs? It falls on our Congress, our elected officials, our elected government, to do such things when necessary.
It's not the government's job to feed people or to create jobs. Our society is capitalistic, i.e., it relies on business production, not government handouts.
 
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It's popular to blame everything the government does as wrong or inept. I think that's an over-reaction coming from conservatives mostly. But the point is that communities have just gone through a bad Recession and many families are suffering and out of work for years now. Where are the communities creating jobs or feeding those in need? There are none. They just are not capable, at least right now of doing such things. A local church has a table, once a week. I applaud them for that. But, that is once a week!
12.8 million people. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
So, who is going to feed people or create jobs? It falls on our Congress, our elected officials, our elected government, to do such things when necessary.
Neither community nor govt creates jobs. People and companies do.

You keep saying that people have all these problems these days and how bad it is right now, yet you fail to acknowledge that the Feds have been involved for 50 years now. Odd that you state that the govt must be involved when they HAVE been involved and the situation, in your mind, is dire.

FWIW, most people do not consider me conservative. But thanks for the label.
 
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If the people are told to conform or else and they don't conform, will they go homeless and hungry? If so this does nothing to solve the homeless and hunger problem. And what if they have kids? Do we let them go hungry and homeless on account of their no good shiftless parents?
 
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Neither community nor govt creates jobs. People and companies do.

You keep saying that people have all these problems these days and how bad it is right now, yet you fail to acknowledge that the Feds have been involved for 50 years now. Odd that you state that the govt must be involved when they HAVE been involved and the situation, in your mind, is dire.

FWIW, most people do not consider me conservative. But thanks for the label.

It's ok - you don't have to be a conservative to abhor and oppose Taos' proposed welfare totalitarianism.
 
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Believing that in todays world of racial hatreds and conservative ideologies

That is such a fantastically broad generalization, compounded with a frighteningly small world view, that your entire post should be discounted as, certainly biased, if not completely derelict. I dare you to put me in to a religious, or racial ideologue catergory. I double dog dare you. I will eat your lunch. Having said that, there is equal racial hatred and ideologues on all sides.

that it's the governments fault, that the government removed the "urgency and tradition of the community to step in" is delusional and part of the problem.

So, what nefarious faction IS responsible for the breakdown? Hmmmmm?

There is such diversity in churches and their thinking that I don't see how they could ever agree on a plan to help millions.

Even as an Atheist, I can agree that the one fundamental function that A church provides is charity. I have seen it in action at local levels, only to be stymied at state levels and forced to divert resources to fundametally "righteous" causes IN OTHER COUNTRIES. It is actually easier to send missionaries in to foreign countries than it is to allow a church to bring charity to its own state, and sometimes, town.

But, you have your opinion and I have mind on the causes.
Ah. The "Lets agree to disagree argument." Here's the thing. Fundamentally, using actual logic, there is a right and wrong answer. If it is so hard to defend your answer, then you might be on the wrong side.

How do we fix that? How do we get past the "blame game" and help people in real need?

Allow society to function how it should and allow people to decide, on their own, what is profitable for them. Let them negotiate their own market value rather than be forced to live up to a skill set that they are not only not prepared to perform, but also one that is going to make emloyers increasingly more critical of who they hire. Irregardless of the law, employers are still going to hire whom they deem most fit for the position. In terms of everyone else. Phase out nationally subsidized public assistance programs, not just money to states, but also medicare, medicaid, social security, federal unemployment assistance, everything. When people realize there is no safety net, they turn to the free market. Is it chaotic at the onset, well, yeah, but no more so than than the stock market, which is, fundamentally IMAGINARY. You eliminate the barriers to free trade, with REAL, goods and services, and the government holdings might collapse, but the market won't. Actually, it cant. Somebody is always going to have something that someone else wants. Fundamentally, this isn't Re-growng society. It's not a fix, its a Do-over.

I think we tell our government what we want them to do as a plan.

Do you really get the impression that anyone in the governement is listening to you?

We make them more accountable to the people, not corporations and millionaires. There is a process in place for that. It's the voting booth.

Wrong. It's in your every day life. It is what you watch, what you listen to, what you buy, what you shove in your hippie face and what you smell and decide to rebel against (which I sort of agree with, but, if you don't like the smell of fermenting wood pulp, don't move to a town with a paper mill, OR suck it up and quit being a whiny bitch.) At the end of the day though, your $$$ is worth 1000x your vote. If you can turn your local gov't against your local paper mill, good for you, BUT, don't bitch when unemployment hits 20% or higher in your town. At the end of the day, it's ALWAYS easier for people who don't have a dog in the fight to speculate what is a good idea. And you know what? It's usually a shitty idea. i.e. voting = responsibility.

We have to believe in the process and get out and vote.

Yeah, we do. But it matters what we're voting on. AND people can't take an ambivilant attitue towards local elections. Honestly, that is where policy is made. It's not grass roots. It's just normal. Local policy is what shapes a region and what shapes a nation. If only we could repeal the 17th amendment, we'd be on the road to realistic representaion at the national level. Meaning, even if your state didn't agree with some nationalistic idea that you didn't agree with, you could actually choose to live in a state that truly represented your ideals, and have a realistic shot of actually electing representatives that refleted your ideals, instead of having a nationalized political cartel tell you what you should and shouldn't believe on every subjuct and make you feel pigeon-holed in to voting for the lesser of two evils.
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I realize that I am talking to a lost cause, but in the spirit of equality, I offer this: Don't Take my word. Venture out of your comfort zone, truly study philosophy and find the actual truth. I assure you, it is there. Logic and reason are not very hard to find, as long as you are willing to do some introspective, critical thinking. You will find the answers to human nature, but more importantly, truth. Here's a hint, it's not nearly as fantastic as you imagine.
 
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It's not the government's job to feed people or to create jobs. Our society is capitalistic, i.e., it relies on business production, not government handouts.

You're right. The government shouldn't have to be involved in creating jobs or feeding people.
But who has created jobs since the recession? Not Business.
Who is feeding people 7 days a week? Not any church I know of. If you know of one please tell us who it is.
I'm not being sarcastic, Mili. I just want to know if any church is doing that right now.
 
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In a perfect world the government wouldn't have to be involved in job creation. But as a matter of conscious they must right now.
In a perfect world the government would not have to feed people. We are struggling to escape a Recession and everyone including churches has suffered.
So, logically, the government needs to create jobs until the economy is back on it's feet.
Logically and morally, the government has an obligation to those it put in office, to help those in need including vets, until the economy gets better.
After we reach better economic times the government ideally would step aside. It may not choose to but logically it certainly could.
 
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You're right. The government shouldn't have to be involved in creating jobs or feeding people.
But who has created jobs since the recession? Not Business.
Who is feeding people 7 days a week? Not any church I know of. If you know of one please tell us who it is.
I'm not being sarcastic, Mili. I just want to know if any church is doing that right now.


What are you doing Taos? If you're so concerned, how many people did you feed this week? How many jobs did you create for people? How many people are being sheltered in your Ivory Tower? That's always the issue. YOU should help these people, because I think the way they live is abhorrent, but not me. It should be "society's responsibility." You're a fucking hypocrite. Quit fucking posting, and go make a real difference.
 
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If the people are told to conform or else and they don't conform, will they go homeless and hungry? If so this does nothing to solve the homeless and hunger problem. And what if they have kids? Do we let them go hungry and homeless on account of their no good shiftless parents?

People taking things they don't deserve is called fraud. That is a crime as far as I know. People must be accountable for their actions. How that is handled by the law is open to what their situation is and who the judge is.
 
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You're right. The government shouldn't have to be involved in creating jobs or feeding people.
But who has created jobs since the recession? Not Business.
Who is feeding people 7 days a week? Not any church I know of. If you know of one please tell us who it is.
I'm not being sarcastic, Mili. I just want to know if any church is doing that right now.
Actually business HAS created thousands of jobs. If you've been paying attention, that's what has happened. And feeding people, I personally am a member of a church with 3 outreach missions providing 6 meals a week. And that's just my church. The homeless in our community are provided with 2 meals every single day by a church congregation. And that's just the little bit that I actually know about. Of course there are dozens of other churches doing it too and I don't even know them. The fact that you claim not to know of a single one screams of an incredible lack of awareness of your surroundings or an unwillingness to acknowledge it. Beyond that, it also suggests you're not part of the solution, because if you were, you'd know about some of these people and organizations. You simply couldn't help knowing about SOME of the outreach if you were part of the solution.
 
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