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Thad Matta (OSU's All Time Winningest Coach & 3x B1G COY, Butler HC)

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Steve19 said:
So, you get a third party story and we're supposed to believe that you have a unique insight. How do you know that AuTX Buckeye and Thad Matta are not close friends? How do you know that they do not chat weekly? Seriously, lighten up, this isn't like you at all and you are way offsides in these comments.
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So I guess I am just not supposed to post about how I feel about Matta and I would believe my "third-party" on just about anything he told me about almost anything. Just because I am not as passionate about football as about everyone else on this site does not mean that I should not be passionate about the basketball program.

How many people do you see posting in the Basketball Recruiting forum compared to the similar Football forum:huh: Just an example of all many people really care about the state of the Ohio State basketball program.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I just do not think that you can tell how a high school basketball player is going to do in college with regard to energy. Some guys do not put forth much effort but just get away with it because they are just better talent. I also do not think that it is a "culture". One of the basketball trainers from a few years ago told me about Matta and you would be shocked to know the real Thad Matta.
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You're right I know nothing about Thad. I do however know about managing people and perceptions. Perception is reality. I know these are probably good kids, but the perception is that the program is in a death spiral. If it was just Loving or maybe Lyle and the effort they gave folks might write this off but this has gone on for a while. Amir being the first I can think of.

What is your perception of the team and Thad? I've given mine, will also add if they aren't interviewing these kids before accepting commits, that's a major problem. You can glean a lot of information even with a phone interview if the right questions are asked.

I love your passion for Buckeye Basketball and take no offense to your defense of Thad. Like I said I am grateful that we have Thad as a coach but after a while sometimes its time to move on.
 
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Jake said:
Why do some insist on referring to "a bad season", as if the Bucks were rolling into 2016? If it was just "a bad season" I don't imagine anyone, outside of a few idiots who want to fire the coach after every loss, would be questioning whether Thad should be retained after this season. It's not "a bad season", but rather a downward spiral over several years culminated by 30 losses the last two seasons.

Will I be surprised if he's still our coach next season? No. Will I be confident when the games start? No. The trust that he'll put together a good squad is gone now.
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I got into a back-and-forth with some guy in the comments section after the game on Facebook yesterday. Basically, a lot of unhappy people were saying it was time to move on from Matta. This one guy comes on and starts calling everyone "spoiled" and that we have "unreasonable expectations." He says we'll never find a coach that will win 75% of his games to replace him. He says we're all dumb for wanting to replace him after one bad season. I point out it's a six year slide. He posts "75%." I post one tournament win in four years. He posts something blaming the recent struggles on the '15 class washing out. I ask who recruited them? And point out Matta has put exactly ONE player in the NBA in his last five recruiting classes. He again says "75%." I say, okay, you want numbers? Here's numbers...64%, 54%, 5th-6th-7th-11th...That is his overall win %, B1G win %, and B1G finishes the last four seasons. Those are the numbers that I'm concerned with, and that are relevant to the current state of the program. He never responds.

My point is, Matta has his supporters, and I can understand that. However, it gets me when they call folks questioning whether it's time to move on "spoiled", as if it's a little one year anomaly, I get irritated. Especially when their entire defense is basically what he did 5+ years ago.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
I do however know about managing people and perceptions.
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Oh, I could tell that from just reading the majority of your posts because you have always been very respectful of other people.
AuTX Buckeye said:
What is your perception of the team and Thad?
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Regarding Thad, I just have the utmost respect for how he has run the program since he has been here. Do not get me wrong I would like to see the basketball program to be more successful but I just do not know if changing coaches is going to get the job done. Look at how many national football championships we have one over the past 50 years. I just do not think that the basketball program will ever be as successful as the football program. At least not at Ohio State. I just do not know if getting rid of Matta is the answer.
 
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LitlBuck said:
So I guess I am just not supposed to post about how I feel about Matta and I would believe my "third-party" on just about anything he told me about almost anything. Just because I am not as passionate about football as about everyone else on this site does not mean that I should not be passionate about the basketball program.

How many people do you see posting in the Basketball Recruiting forum compared to the similar Football forum:huh: Just an example of all many people really care about the state of the Ohio State basketball program.
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I grew up with a passion first for basketball and I played at least 4 hours a day from the age of 6.

Fred Taylor was a family friend and I still have pictures I shot of him and the team warming up in St. John Arena as an eight year old. I suppose the family relationship is why I got invited to his Bellefontaine summer camp as a high school player, because puberty came late and I was already falling behind in size. I could recite the stats for every Buckeye starter in the 1960's. Anyone remember Ron Sepic? 15pts a game, 9th round to the Royals? I had scrap books of every game for 15 years. As a forty year old, I played weekly with 7 guys who played in the previous Olympics for Yugoslavia and I could still dunk even though I'm only 6'1"...that enough passion for basketball?

As I have said repeatedly, I sincerely respect Coach Matta. I think his physical challenges limited what he might have accomplished.

I'm not there and I only met him once but I've watched this team play with dismay. They are lackadaisical and defense is not in their vocabulary. Defense and hustle were hallmarks of his team before his physical challenges.

They have often stood glued to the floor this year. Then, you see a game like Wisconsin, where the coaches have come with a gameplan and you get a glimpse of their potential.

Recall last year's angry statement that he'd had enough of the low effort and was going back to his original coaching style. Recall that he was very optimistic about this team before the season. It suggests to me that he is out of touch with them and that he may not be connecting with them well enough to lead them to an Above the Line worldview. Whatever the reason, they don't have it. If the problem really is selection, well, that is squarely in his court as well.

So, I'm not busting your chops, but I don't let anyone bust mine either. As Urban Meyer said, the players' attitude on the court is the responsibility of the coaches. It is their primary job. And that was my point.
 
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I
LitlBuck said:
@Steve19 you forgot Robin Freeman:wink:

I wonder if Coach Taylor quoted Woody. It always goes back to football :)
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Can tell you this, he died a bit that night in Minneapolis. He couldn't believe the pathetic response of the B1G or Ohio State's Athletic Department. No matter what he did after that, he wasn't himself and he said as much publicly. He was the best coach in the country or maybe just behind Rupp. His style was very different to Woody but his personal 1 on 1 coaching at those summer camps sounded a lot like Urban Meyer.
 
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I 100% blame effort level on the coach. The coach controls effort level, period. It is the culture. I have coached high school kids. You constantly talk about effort level and demand it at practice. You play like you practice. I have said before I would hate to see what practice must look like. If you give poor effort during a game, what must the effort be like in practice. The coach controls practice. The coach also controls minutes played. If the effort is poor, the player goes to the bench. When said player asks me why he is on the bench, said player gets an explanation of how poor his effort level is and that if he wants to see game minutes he is going to have to give 100% effort. It is easy really. You either hustle or sit. End of story. Same thing in practice where EVERYTHING starts. You hustle or you sit on the sideline and watch practice.

One of my childhood buddies coaches varsity basketball and his team won tonight at the convo. The first thing me and the 4 guys that I went to the game with commented on after the game was how hard my buddy has his team playing. Effort belongs to the coach.

Amir Williams would have never seen the floor if I was a coach. If he did, his effort level would have been much higher.

I also think this is one reason our players are not in tip-top physical shape. Guys on here have referred to the players as "skinny-fat". Several of our players are carrying too much weight for D1 basketball. That is a reflection of practices and I would argue effort level at practice.
 
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I guess I get a little confused when people talk about this season being an outlier of Thad's career, therefore he deserves more rope.

This program has been on a decline the last 4 years, at a Nike school that gets more athletic department support than any other school in the nation. Yes, OSU basketball isn't as high on the priority list as say Kentucky or Arizona, but then again.....the expectation for OSU basketball isn't a borderline NIT program.

The recruiting has dipped considerably...why? The play on the court has dipped considerably...why? Retention of players within the program has been very low the last 2 years...why?

OSU isn't a top 10 college basketball job in the country, but it's certainly within the top 15. When Thad came in he was the perfect hire....hungry dude from Butler who had proven his coaching chops and had established relationships throughout the Midwest. I don't think through any fault of his own necessarily, but he's not the commodity he once was.

IMO it's time for a change.....especially when a fantastic hire is right down the road in Dayton. I get the sense Archie Miller will be our coach next year.... I do know Thad is grossly underperforming with the resources he has at his finger-tips.

Again, this isn't a one year slip....we are working on the fourth straight year of slippage...

2013 - 25-10
2014 - 24-11
2015 - 21-14
2016 - 14-10

These winning percentages just aren't acceptable at a school with the richest Nike contract in the country. And based on the roster and incoming talent I'm not sure anyone can say this is absolutely going to turn itself around immediately....

I'd love to see Archie get his hands on this program, and get the opportunity to turn us back into the program Thad had us at when he took over back in 2004.
 
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Systems_id said:
Including 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 is odd unless you were being sarcastic. That's like saying Urban Meyer has been slipping because he went 12-1 and 11-2 after winning the Natty in 2014 lol.
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No it's like saying he went 12-1, 11-2, 8-5, 7-6, 6-7, 5-8. The point is steady decline over an extended number of years, some people call it a trend. Nobody is disputing the starting point is/was high nor is it where we constantly need to reach. If urban were to run those last 4 year type numbers he'd be gone.
 
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greyscarlet said:
No it's like saying he went 12-1, 11-2, 8-5, 7-6, 6-7, 5-8. The point is steady decline over an extended number of years, some people call it a trend. Nobody is disputing the starting point is/was high nor is it where we constantly need to reach. If urban were to run those last 4 year type numbers he'd be gone.
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But again, those two years you just mentioned aren't really what I would consider a decline. I mean technically it would be but then technically not winning a NC every year after winning one would be a decline. Basically I'm saying that his starting point is faulty, not that there isn't a decline.
 
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Systems_id said:
But again, those two years you just mentioned aren't really what I would consider a decline. I mean technically it would be but then technically not winning a NC every year after winning one would be a decline. Basically I'm saying that his starting point is faulty, not that there isn't a decline.
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It's a trend. That's the point I was making. Yes, it did start very high, and yes, it's mainly the last four years. Four mediocre years, the last two pretty bad. This year in the worst B1G field in probably a decade.
 
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The criticism was overstated in 2012-13 & 13-14 (especially since there was too much in 11-12 too) but sadly Thad did not have his usual recruiting to transform the roster.
 
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