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Talking Religion...

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muffler dragon;1706542; said:
May I ask why you included Einstein in a discussion primarily Christian in background?
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My point in including him was to show that even the person probably considered the greatest scientific thinker of modern times still believed in God (although, I think he was more deist? Albeit Jewish? But he didn't think that God answered our prayers or anything, correct?), and certainly didn't adopt Jake's stance of, "Oh, if only everyone could understand what I do, they would understand that this is nonsense..."; instead, he understood the complexity of the problem, and AFAIK had a few writings on the matter in which he investigated it more thoroughly. I have never read them personally, and I don't even know exactly what Einstein thought, so maybe I should have left him out. Feel free to replace his name with someone else, my point is the same :P
 
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xcrunner;1706632; said:
My point in including him was to show that even the person probably considered the greatest scientific thinker of modern times still believed in God (although, I think he was more deist? Albeit Jewish? But he didn't think that God answered our prayers or anything, correct?), and certainly didn't adopt Jake's stance of, "Oh, if only everyone could understand what I do, they would understand that this is nonsense..."; instead, he understood the complexity of the problem, and AFAIK had a few writings on the matter in which he investigated it more thoroughly. I have never read them personally, and I don't even know exactly what Einstein thought, so maybe I should have left him out. Feel free to replace his name with someone else, my point is the same :P
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Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if you were claiming some sort of Christian belief structure or not. As for Einstein, he said that he wasn't an atheist nor a pantheist. Beyond that, I can't say.
 
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eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent don't 'come from' anywhere. they ARE. God exists outside of the boundaries of our universe, both conceptually and figuratively.

like this. according to Einstein, the faster something goes, the slower time goes. so to a photon of light traveling at light speed, time is infinite. the light is therefore everywhere at once. which means that it exists outside the boundaries of our universe. it is omnipresent. hence, light is Godly.
 
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lvbuckeye;1706790; said:
eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent don't 'come from' anywhere. they ARE. God exists outside of the boundaries of our universe, both conceptually and figuratively.
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You say this like it's easily acceptable.
like this. according to Einstein, the faster something goes, the slower time goes. so to a photon of light traveling at light speed, time is infinite. the light is therefore everywhere at once. which means that it exists outside the boundaries of our universe. it is omnipresent. hence, light is Godly.
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Short answer (no offense, I just don't really feel like having an optics debate right now): photons don't experience or perceive time. Google 'Lorentz interval.'
let me know when you can explain where light comes from.
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Moving electrons? Not really sure what you're looking for.
 
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The speed of light is not infinite, therefore the speed at which our perceptive photon perceives time would likewise not be infinite. It is also not in all places at once.

The Hawking Youtube vid doesn't work, and I thought he was a clear and vocal member of the atheist camp. Did he change his mind on that?
EDIT: Tried again, it did work. It's pretty clear that the creator of that vid included his own reasoning as "Hawkings." I actually tend to agree with the point being made by it (except for the assertion that the appearance of order in this universe implies G-d - it doesn't. It sounds nice... it looks tidy... but the conclusion simply doesn't follow from the premise. To say nothing of the fact that this tired "proof" has been modified over and over again once needing a universe where stars were fixed in the sky, revolving in a magic sphere around our Earth... "prefection" and "order" have changed, making the "proof" subjective and useless.), but I doubt very seriously it is Hawking's work but rather this person's interpretation of it.
 
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Hawking hasn't had (AFAIK) what you or i would call a born-again experience, but he has indicated on more than one occasion that there must be a God.

and i didn't say that light speed was infinite. light goes light speed, in a vacuum of course. oh yeah, forgot to mention that photons have no mass, therefore they do not exist within the boundaries of the physical universe.
 
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lvbuckeye;1706946; said:
Hawking hasn't had (AFAIK) what you or i would call a born-again experience, but he has indicated on more than one occasion that there must be a God.
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I don't doubt that, I just wasn't aware. The last thing I remember from Hawking of which I paid attention was that the universe could have indeed sprung from nothing - See, e.g. Link If you click through, there's this quip:

"If one believed that the universe had a beginning, the obvious question was, what happened before the beginning,' Hawking said. 'What was God doing before He made the world? Was He preparing hell for people who asked such questions?" Link

Which I suppose could be taken as him asserting G-d was there before the beginning, or we could take as him being a smart ass. In that the remark apparently drew laughs, it seems the assumption of the attendees was that it was intended as comedic rather than an assertion of G-d's actual presence. But, that said... it's hard to divine Hawking's views from such an article. Just sayin.

and i didn't say that light speed was infinite. light goes light speed, in a vacuum of course.
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you said:

... so to a photon of light traveling at light speed, time is infinite. the light is therefore everywhere at once....

I was merely correcting the part about time being infinite to a thing, your photon, traveling at something less than infinite speed and the conclusion that it is therefore everywhere at once.
 
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