Roger Clemens (Official Thread)

[DGADBTWSOM]

All I know is that when I heard his name was going to be on the list, I immediately thought of the commercial where his wife is trying to tell him not to come back while he's on the golf course.

All I thought was I should have known when I saw this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrQkgcty0I]YouTube - ESPN Sportscenter Commercial - Roger Clemens Fastball[/ame]

 

[OH10]

Maybe steroids helps his golf game.

Well, I think if you read her lips correctly, his wife is saying "NO. NO. NO. ROGER, REMEMBER YOU HAVEN'T SHOT UP ALL OFFSEASON. YOU CAN'T COME BACK. NO. NO. NO."

And, of course, anyone that watched him this season knows she was absolutely right.

 

[NFBuck]

Wanna come back for one more season asshole?

 

[jlb1705]

Apparently Dan Duquette was right about him being in the twilight of his (clean) career. Go figure.

 

[chuckddd]

Can you spot the steroid usage?

Roger Clemens since 1991:

1991, Age 28 18-10 record 2.62 ERA Cy Young Award
1992, 29 18-11
1993, 30 11-14
1994, 31 9-7
1995, 32 10-5
1996, 33 10-13
1997, 34 21-7 Cy Young Award
1998, 35 20-6 Cy Young Award
1999, 36 14-10
2000, 37 13-8
2001, 38 20-3 Cy Young Award
2002, 39 13-6
2003, 40 17-9
2004, 41 18-4 Cy Young Award
2005, 42 13-8 1.87 ERA
2006, 43 7-6 2.38 ERA
2007, 44 6-6

1996 was his last season in Boston, he leaves and suddenly he's pitching like he's 25 again. A 1.87 ERA from a 42 year old pitcher who misses training camp and only plays 2/3rd's of a season is just ridiculous. Most aging pitchers have to reinvent themselves to sustain their careers (i.e. depend on guile and breaking balls), not Clemens, he still throws 96mph.

In 05 and 06, he had horrendous run support, or his w/l ratio would have been much better.

He was named by Jose Canseco in his book and the media said NOTHING. Just let him pass with his 7 Cy Youngs, his not traveling with his team, his not showing up to games unless he's pitching, his not signing with a team until the season's half over and his $1,000,000 a start. Do I sound like a bitter Red Sox fan? I'm not. I grew up on Red's baseball and Buckeye football and I've thought Clemens was dirty from the time he left Boston and guess what?

Edit:OMG formatting.

 

[powerlifter]

Can you spot the steroid usage?

Roger Clemens since 1991:

1991, Age 28 18-10 record 2.62 ERA Cy Young Award
1992, 29 18-11
1993, 30 11-14
1994, 31 9-7
1995, 32 10-5
1996, 33 10-13
1997, 34 21-7 Cy Young Award
1998, 35 20-6 Cy Young Award
1999, 36 14-10
2000, 37 13-8
2001, 38 20-3 Cy Young Award
2002, 39 13-6
2003, 40 17-9
2004, 41 18-4 Cy Young Award
2005, 42 13-8 1.87 ERA
2006, 43 7-6 2.38 ERA
2007, 44 6-6

1996 was his last season in Boston, he leaves and suddenly he's pitching like he's 25 again. A 1.87 ERA from a 42 year old pitcher who misses training camp and only plays 2/3rd's of a season is just ridiculous. Most aging pitchers have to reinvent themselves to sustain their careers (i.e. depend on guile and breaking balls), not Clemens, he still throws 96mph.

In 05 and 06, he had horrendous run support, or his w/l ratio would have been much better.

He was named by Jose Canseco in his book and the media said NOTHING. Just let him pass with his 7 Cy Youngs, his not traveling with his team, his not showing up to games unless he's pitching, his not signing with a team until the season's half over and his $1,000,000 a start. Do I sound like a bitter Red Sox fan? I'm not. I grew up on Red's baseball and Buckeye football and I've thought Clemens was dirty from the time he left Boston and guess what?

Edit:OMG formatting.

What about Nolan Ryan? ....The odds of these guys taking enough IU's of GH to actually get the benefits,that people make them out to be are pretty low...Normal first time GH users aren't going to say hey doc I'll have ten iu's right now..daily...


Funny thing is...I've said this stuff for how long now? Want to venture into the NFL next? So the next "you don't know anything about anything post" think about this...I know nothing about cars... I wouldn't expect to walk into a mechanic and tell him where he's wrong,because I don't know shit about that...However,this is real,and has been a long time..There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the world of sports is engorged with HGH...I don't think it's "steroids" as much as it's HGH. The individual steroids tend to cause side effects and are much easier detected. It's funny when I hear people on ESPN...These REPORTERS who cannot even pronounce the compounds right they are talking about...and they are getting paid for it..

 

[chuckddd]

What about Nolan Ryan? ....The odds of these guys taking enough IU's of GH to actually get the benefits,that people make them out to be are pretty low...Normal first time GH users aren't going to say hey doc I'll have ten iu's right now..daily...


Funny thing is...I've said this stuff for how long now? Want to venture into the NFL next? So the next "you don't know anything about anything post" think about this...I know nothing about cars... I wouldn't expect to walk into a mechanic and tell him where he's wrong,because I don't know shit about that...However,this is real,and has been a long time..There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the world of sports is engorged with HGH...I don't think it's "steroids" as much as it's HGH. The individual steroids tend to cause side effects and are much easier detected. It's funny when I hear people on ESPN...These REPORTERS who cannot even pronounce the compounds right they are talking about...and they are getting paid for it..

Nolan Ryan kept his fastball and continued to be effective into his forties. The biggest difference is that his career didn't suddenly have a resurgence sometime in his 30's.

HGH and designer steroids are the way to go if you're going to do performance enhancing drugs because they aren't detectable. The only way to curtail their usage is to take multiple blood samples during drug tests and then keep them until an accurate test is developed. I believe that the IOC does this currently.

 

[OH10]

What about Nolan Ryan? ....The odds of these guys taking enough IU's of GH to actually get the benefits,that people make them out to be are pretty low...Normal first time GH users aren't going to say hey doc I'll have ten iu's right now..daily...


Funny thing is...I've said this stuff for how long now? Want to venture into the NFL next? So the next "you don't know anything about anything post" think about this...I know nothing about cars... I wouldn't expect to walk into a mechanic and tell him where he's wrong,because I don't know shit about that...However,this is real,and has been a long time..There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the world of sports is engorged with HGH...I don't think it's "steroids" as much as it's HGH. The individual steroids tend to cause side effects and are much easier detected. It's funny when I hear people on ESPN...These REPORTERS who cannot even pronounce the compounds right they are talking about...and they are getting paid for it..

So you're a steroid-user then, aren't you buddy?

Does that maybe... I don't know.... make you a little biased?

EDIT: By the way, this discussion just has not been the same without your pro-steroid posts. We missed you Greg Anderson.

 

[methomps]

Left Bed In Clemens, Pettitte's Shared Hotel Room Clearly Unused



link

Roid rape?

 

[powerlifter]

So you're a steroid-user then, aren't you buddy?

Does that maybe... I don't know.... make you a little biased?

EDIT: By the way, this discussion just has not been the same without your pro-steroid posts. We missed you Greg Anderson.

If that made me biased in my opinion...Wouldn't you not using make you biased in yours?

I mean god knows if you have ever done steroids you walk around and feed on small children for appetizers,and it kills all your brain cells...So basically you walk around and hit home runs all the time or do anything physically better then any other human alive....just because you use....the only people that are more athletically gifted if you use steroids are the ones that use more...The gauge is doses isn't it? Bonds must be the kingpin in MLB,since he has hit the most homeruns...Yea thats FANTASTIC logic..I've said it several times on here...It's invested the sport and will not be fixed...

It kind of reminds of me of people pirating windows or other software..They keep making it and saying this time there's no way to pirate it....Then it gets pirated and they try again...Get mad and talk,but it won't do any good to what sports has become.When I said it was WIDELY USED IN ALL SPORTS INCLUDING HIGH SCHOOL. People just act naive that respectable players would do it..People just wouldn't open their eyes EARLIER...Millions of dollars to be made,when your healing faster,stronger,confident....Individual people that use don't think it's wrong,when it's gauge in $$$$.They are supporting their families and lifestyles they will ALWAYS do it...

I know a lot of people that have used them in athletics who weren't getting paid though,and were using them against other people who were using to see who could push each other to the absolute maximum physically for not a single cent. There's a lot more to baseball then an injection,and swing. The people who pissed away all credibility are the ones that got caught. It's amazing to me there's still going to be guys getting TRT or HRT through docs,and playing pro sports and people not realize why...This is why....

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

espn.com

'Appropriate time' is now for Clemens to speak up

By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: December 18, 2007

Uh, Roger, Mitchell report got your tongue?
Remember that cell phone TV commercial you did about not being able to hear your wife on the other end of the line? Well, that's what it's like as we wait for you to do more than issue statements denying allegations by your former personal trainer that he injected you with steroids and human growth hormone.

Two paragraphs -- that's all we got Tuesday. And all 109 words were issued conveniently through one of your agents.
Most of the statement repeats what your recently hired Houston attorney, Rusty Hardin, said when your name bubbled to the top of the Mitchell report surface: deny, deny, deny.

The second part of the statement is the keeper, though. That's where you wonder why "25 years in public life" didn't earn you a Get Out Of Mitchell Report card, as if celebrity status exempted you from legitimate scrutiny. And then you said you planned to address questions "at the appropriate time in the appropriate way.

"I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."

Continued....

 

[OH10]

If that made me biased in my opinion...Wouldn't you not using make you biased in yours?

You're right. I don't use crack, crystal meth, or Viagra either. So I am biased against those drugs as well.

Get mad and talk,but it won't do any good to what sports has become.When I said it was WIDELY USED IN ALL SPORTS INCLUDING HIGH SCHOOL. People just act naive that respectable players would do it..People just wouldn't open their eyes EARLIER...Millions of dollars to be made,when your healing faster,stronger,confident....Individual people that use don't think it's wrong,when it's gauge in $$$$.They are supporting their families and lifestyles they will ALWAYS do it...

I've asked you this before, and I'll ask it again, still hoping for a response:

But, YES OR NO, are you saying Steroids are good? I'm not asking for a detailed avoidance to the question. Simply say "yes" or "no" and then give your explanation.

 

[tibor75]

Nice article... I'm amused by how he calls out the idiots in ESPN who continue to defend these guys (of course, no doubt Roger Clemens would look good sitting next to Harold Rey...er....Steve Phillips in the near future)

Denials by proxy only make Clemens look worse - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Denials by proxy only make Clemens look worse

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
December 18, 2007





George Mitchell essentially called the second half of Roger Clemens' career a steroid-fueled fraud Thursday, devastating his legacy, Hall of Fame credentials and personal reputation.

Rather than responding like the Rocket Roger we knew on the mound ? sending the figurative 95 mph retaliatory fastball at Mitchell's chin ? we've gotten days of silence, the only official word from Clemens' camp being a brief denial on the pitcher's behalf from his agent Tuesday and an earlier circular, emotion-based, fact-devoid denial from his lawyer.

The latest statement said: "I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life. Those substances represent a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take."

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

Nolan Ryan kept his fastball and continued to be effective into his forties. The biggest difference is that his career didn't suddenly have a resurgence sometime in his 30's.

HGH and designer steroids are the way to go if you're going to do performance enhancing drugs because they aren't detectable. The only way to curtail their usage is to take multiple blood samples during drug tests and then keep them until an accurate test is developed. I believe that the IOC does this currently.

Excellent post. Anybody that brings Ryan into this disaster is a fool. Nolan Ryan arrived in MLB in 1968 as a skrawny-ass kid with a 100 mph fastball.

Nolan Ryan's "weight-room" encounters are legendary. I've read stories where this "bald-headed old man" took young pitchers to a gym in Seattle many a moon ago to instruct them on proper lifting techniques. After a group of "local-yokals" in that gym were laughing at this old fucker ( and they had no idea who he was) trying to tell anybody about "body-building" Nolan promptly set 1,200 pounds on the leg presss and played with it like it was nothing, while none of the locals could even budge it.

 

[MaxBuck]

Bob Costas has it right. Treating any player as presumptively "clean" or "dirty" is foolish given the inability of testing to detect the designer steroids (or HGH), along with the highly selective interviewing process the Mitchell group used in discovering use of these compounds.

Remember that the goal of the Mitchell group was never to inventory all the steroid/HGH users in major league baseball; it was to identify whether a problem exists in MLB.

"I have asked Sen. Mitchell to attempt to determine, as a factual matter, whether any Major League players associated with BALCO or otherwise used steroids or other illegal performance-enhancing substances at any point after the substances were banned by the 2002-2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement," Selig said.

They've established pretty conclusively that such use occurred; now the thing is to do a better job of testing -- and probably to accept that the genie is out of the bottle and we will never really know whether a specific individual player has been pharmaceutically enhanced or not.