BuckeyeSkins
Go Bucks/Hail to the Redskins!!
Not to mention his sudden attack of fumbleitis. Not good.slobberknocker said:
Upvote
0
-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter HineyBuck
- Start date
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
This is gonna be a long winded response, fellas, so bear with me:
bucknuts44820: "1. Ross is average at best...yes or no?"
In the context of Ohio State, the school with 6 Heisman RBs, Woody Hayes, etc. Lydell Ross isn't even average. To me, an 'average' OSU back is a Pepe Pearson or a Jon Wells. And those guys were able to get theirs (Pepe ran for 173 yards & 2 TDs in the '96 ND game, and Wells had a very solid Senior season). Maybe at WVU or Fresno State, Lydell would be average, but not here.
"2. If Ross is average at best, why not go running back by commitee?"
To answer Questions 2 & 3 simultaneously, OSU has no other viable options at this time. Pittman has shown flashes, but he's 190 lbs. There's no way he can take the pounding of a Big Ten schedule as the feature back and be able to give us quality yards at the end of the season. And we all know what Game happens at the end of the season. For now, Tress has to limit Pittman's carries and hope that the 3 headed monster can pull us through. Remember, Lydell busted through with a couple of big games in his freshman season (the same as Pittman is showing) and wasn't a factor by the time the scUM game came around that year. And Hall is the same as Ross.
Nutty: "Ross has terrible vision, average speed and doesn't break tackles. Like DiHard said on another thread, he's a great kid but he's just not a great player."
First off, let me say that you nailed it right on the head. However, if I am going to break down all those weaknesses and say which one is most prevalent, I'd say its the 'breaking tackles' component. He never ever makes the first guy miss. As soon as the initial contact is made, he's down. That's his biggest problem. Look at how many yards McLendon gained after the first hit in this game. Its like watching "night and day" RBs simultaneously. If we had McLendon or a back like him, you could start pre-ordering your '2004 National Champions' T-Shirts right now.
Secondly, with all his weaknesses on the field, I will say this: Lydell loves the Buckeyes and embodies the spirit of the University MORE than any player on that team. He idolizes Eddie George, he was an out-of-stater who loved the Bucks from afar, he's a great kid, a great citizen, works hard, and he could've bailed on his commitment to us during his recruitment (had a great built-in excuse) but hung with Tress and the Buckeyes.
Thirdly, I will say this for Lydell this year: he's improved on his durability problems, if not his running game. My Dad nicknamed him "Band-Aid" because he used to get injured on every play. Now he looks like he's moving the pile and can stay on the field.
Fourth: Heribie said this last year, and he was 100% correct. Ohio State should be able to go to any HS RB in the Nation and get them to commit here. Having problems in the running game is inexcusable. Tress should be able to pick the plums off the recruiting tree to get an instant impact freshman (Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, etc.). The fact that we don't have that guy, and Peterson got away is completely indefensible. Ohio State should NEVER have this problem.
Fifth: Getting back to an earlier point, be careful what you wish for with Pittman. We are going to need this kid against scUM. You can't have this kid carry the ball for 100 yards against Whisky, Iowa, etc. and leave him as a non-factor on November 20th.
bucknuts44820: "1. Ross is average at best...yes or no?"
In the context of Ohio State, the school with 6 Heisman RBs, Woody Hayes, etc. Lydell Ross isn't even average. To me, an 'average' OSU back is a Pepe Pearson or a Jon Wells. And those guys were able to get theirs (Pepe ran for 173 yards & 2 TDs in the '96 ND game, and Wells had a very solid Senior season). Maybe at WVU or Fresno State, Lydell would be average, but not here.
"2. If Ross is average at best, why not go running back by commitee?"
To answer Questions 2 & 3 simultaneously, OSU has no other viable options at this time. Pittman has shown flashes, but he's 190 lbs. There's no way he can take the pounding of a Big Ten schedule as the feature back and be able to give us quality yards at the end of the season. And we all know what Game happens at the end of the season. For now, Tress has to limit Pittman's carries and hope that the 3 headed monster can pull us through. Remember, Lydell busted through with a couple of big games in his freshman season (the same as Pittman is showing) and wasn't a factor by the time the scUM game came around that year. And Hall is the same as Ross.
Nutty: "Ross has terrible vision, average speed and doesn't break tackles. Like DiHard said on another thread, he's a great kid but he's just not a great player."
First off, let me say that you nailed it right on the head. However, if I am going to break down all those weaknesses and say which one is most prevalent, I'd say its the 'breaking tackles' component. He never ever makes the first guy miss. As soon as the initial contact is made, he's down. That's his biggest problem. Look at how many yards McLendon gained after the first hit in this game. Its like watching "night and day" RBs simultaneously. If we had McLendon or a back like him, you could start pre-ordering your '2004 National Champions' T-Shirts right now.
Secondly, with all his weaknesses on the field, I will say this: Lydell loves the Buckeyes and embodies the spirit of the University MORE than any player on that team. He idolizes Eddie George, he was an out-of-stater who loved the Bucks from afar, he's a great kid, a great citizen, works hard, and he could've bailed on his commitment to us during his recruitment (had a great built-in excuse) but hung with Tress and the Buckeyes.
Thirdly, I will say this for Lydell this year: he's improved on his durability problems, if not his running game. My Dad nicknamed him "Band-Aid" because he used to get injured on every play. Now he looks like he's moving the pile and can stay on the field.
Fourth: Heribie said this last year, and he was 100% correct. Ohio State should be able to go to any HS RB in the Nation and get them to commit here. Having problems in the running game is inexcusable. Tress should be able to pick the plums off the recruiting tree to get an instant impact freshman (Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, etc.). The fact that we don't have that guy, and Peterson got away is completely indefensible. Ohio State should NEVER have this problem.
Fifth: Getting back to an earlier point, be careful what you wish for with Pittman. We are going to need this kid against scUM. You can't have this kid carry the ball for 100 yards against Whisky, Iowa, etc. and leave him as a non-factor on November 20th.
Upvote
0
slobberknocker
All-American
DiHard said:
heck dihard you're giving him alot of credit for being physical special team player at the most.
Upvote
0
jimotis4heisman
Banned
oo i dunno i think you guys are being to hard on him, he had a GREAT game 25 carries and 51 yards thats an astrnomical 2.04 yards per carry
i hate to say it but along with that a late fumble (again) hes got three and all three have been costly
i hate to say it but along with that a late fumble (again) hes got three and all three have been costly
Upvote
0
Jeezopete
Senior
I do not buy the "he's only 190 lb" argument.Quinten Griffen Carried OU quite well. And he's doing fine in Denver as well.
Size in a back is overated. There have been way too many quaility small backs to say that 190 lbs would be a problem in the Big Ten.
It's not even a problem in the NFL. I'd say the defenders in that league hit just a bit harder than the defenders in the Big Ten do.
Sloop
Are you saying Ross is a better back than Wells? No way. Wells is simply more athletic than Ross.
Size in a back is overated. There have been way too many quaility small backs to say that 190 lbs would be a problem in the Big Ten.
It's not even a problem in the NFL. I'd say the defenders in that league hit just a bit harder than the defenders in the Big Ten do.
Sloop
Are you saying Ross is a better back than Wells? No way. Wells is simply more athletic than Ross.
Upvote
0
I gotta defend my man (to the extent I can) -
1. I saw Ross run from the Power-I only once today and he carried half the D into the end zone.
2. He is handed the ball deep in the backfield on every first down in a predictable offense and asked to go where there is no hole. (I recall one play were he lost 4-5 yards but there were 3 defenders within a step when he took the hand off.) He is not a good back to use in an offense that is not designed to, uh, well - be effective I guess. Sorry, I just don't get our offense sometimes ("Mistake free and Opportunistic" is still a bit over my head) and it is not the fault of Lydell. He is not the type of runner Pittman is. He would be great running the I behind Jamar Martin.
All that said, I am becoming a very big Pittman fan. He did get his carries against a very tired NC St D, but he can cut and run. He will play. But he needs to know the blocking assignments et al - and only the coaches know when that will be the case.
When I start seeing evidence that Lydell isn't giving it everythign he has I will get on his case. He is a class Senior and I will have mixed emotions when Pittman takes the job away from him. - but that looks like it could happen.
1. I saw Ross run from the Power-I only once today and he carried half the D into the end zone.
2. He is handed the ball deep in the backfield on every first down in a predictable offense and asked to go where there is no hole. (I recall one play were he lost 4-5 yards but there were 3 defenders within a step when he took the hand off.) He is not a good back to use in an offense that is not designed to, uh, well - be effective I guess. Sorry, I just don't get our offense sometimes ("Mistake free and Opportunistic" is still a bit over my head) and it is not the fault of Lydell. He is not the type of runner Pittman is. He would be great running the I behind Jamar Martin.
All that said, I am becoming a very big Pittman fan. He did get his carries against a very tired NC St D, but he can cut and run. He will play. But he needs to know the blocking assignments et al - and only the coaches know when that will be the case.
When I start seeing evidence that Lydell isn't giving it everythign he has I will get on his case. He is a class Senior and I will have mixed emotions when Pittman takes the job away from him. - but that looks like it could happen.
Upvote
0
I don't think Woody would be sick to his stomach, I think he would have Pittman get more touches each game and would also see if Haw could do the job. The more horses that are in the stable makes for fresher legs come November.
Upvote
0
BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
so is it fourth or fifth string on minnesota behind maroney and barber and any warm body, or are there two warm bodies?
Upvote
0
Amen....that's why so many of us hate to criticize the kid...we all love him as a Buckeye. However, he needs to step it up...and that window of opportunity is closing
Not having a good fullback is hurting also...I saw at least three plays where Schnittker was laid out flat and the LB made the play in the backfield. That is unacceptable
Upvote
0
HiFiver25
Rookie
I'm not going to say "I told you so". I said on this board and (on many ocassions) on Bucknuts that Lydell is a sub-par back for which I got plenty of grief! That he is a senior at the TB position who can't break a freakin' tackle! But deep down, I hoped that he would prove me wrong by finally having a good game against somebody other than Cincy or Indiana (last year's PSU doesn't count either)!
But he did not. The fact that he doesn't have break-out speed or initial burst after attacking the hole is not nearly as disturbing as his utter inability to break tackles even after bulking up to 225 lbs. and going through the same calf-strengthening exercise as Eddie George (according to the ABC commentators during the Cincy game). But then again he is what he is. And for a TB like him, it would be next to impossible to succeed against a decent opponent especially when our OL does not exactly beat the snot out of the opposing defense.
If you look around, PSU, which is not a good team by any stretch of imagination, has two sophomores at TB (Austin Scott and Tony Hunt), both of who hit the hole much harder and break tackles left and right.
I think Pittman and Branden Joe (whatever happenned to him?) should be the primary ball carriers. Ross should be given the ball only in garbage time (with Ross as starter OSU will never see garbage time!).
But he did not. The fact that he doesn't have break-out speed or initial burst after attacking the hole is not nearly as disturbing as his utter inability to break tackles even after bulking up to 225 lbs. and going through the same calf-strengthening exercise as Eddie George (according to the ABC commentators during the Cincy game). But then again he is what he is. And for a TB like him, it would be next to impossible to succeed against a decent opponent especially when our OL does not exactly beat the snot out of the opposing defense.
If you look around, PSU, which is not a good team by any stretch of imagination, has two sophomores at TB (Austin Scott and Tony Hunt), both of who hit the hole much harder and break tackles left and right.
I think Pittman and Branden Joe (whatever happenned to him?) should be the primary ball carriers. Ross should be given the ball only in garbage time (with Ross as starter OSU will never see garbage time!).
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Jeezopete: "I do not buy the "he's only 190 lb" argument.Quinten Griffen Carried OU quite well."
Whoa, hang on. Griffin was a Senior! Pittman is a freshman. There's a big difference between 190 lbs. as an 18 year old and 190 lbs. as a 22 year old.
"Size in a back is overated. There have been way too many quaility small backs to say that 190 lbs would be a problem in the Big Ten."
Huh? How many 190 lb backs are there in the NFL today? Are they feature backs? No. There's a Warrick Dunn or a Travis Minor, but they're 3rd Down backs, not feature backs like you want Pittman to be.
And if you want my "190 lb Freshman" argument, look no further than Lydell Ross. We're in agreement that his Freshman season was his most impressive season, right? By the time he got to the scUM game in '01, he was a complete non-factor. In mid-season, he ran well enough to win the 1st string TB from a healthy Jon Wells, but by the time the scUM game came around he was a liability. I think he had like 2 carries for negative yards and he played the entire 2nd half of that game.
We are going to need Pittman for dUMb. You heard it here first: even with scUM's problems, no team wins "The Game" with 3 YPC. No one.
And I wasn't saying that Ross is better than Wells. Go back and re-read: I said that Peason and Wells were 'average' OSU backs, but both were much better than Ross.
Whoa, hang on. Griffin was a Senior! Pittman is a freshman. There's a big difference between 190 lbs. as an 18 year old and 190 lbs. as a 22 year old.
"Size in a back is overated. There have been way too many quaility small backs to say that 190 lbs would be a problem in the Big Ten."
Huh? How many 190 lb backs are there in the NFL today? Are they feature backs? No. There's a Warrick Dunn or a Travis Minor, but they're 3rd Down backs, not feature backs like you want Pittman to be.
And if you want my "190 lb Freshman" argument, look no further than Lydell Ross. We're in agreement that his Freshman season was his most impressive season, right? By the time he got to the scUM game in '01, he was a complete non-factor. In mid-season, he ran well enough to win the 1st string TB from a healthy Jon Wells, but by the time the scUM game came around he was a liability. I think he had like 2 carries for negative yards and he played the entire 2nd half of that game.
We are going to need Pittman for dUMb. You heard it here first: even with scUM's problems, no team wins "The Game" with 3 YPC. No one.
And I wasn't saying that Ross is better than Wells. Go back and re-read: I said that Peason and Wells were 'average' OSU backs, but both were much better than Ross.
Upvote
0