Penn State Aftermath

[jwinslow]

9) I don't care what anyone says, games like last night's hurt worse than the blow-out losses. Yeah, we can try to rationalize those games away with a bunch of "what ifs", but in reality we know that our team got beat from start to finish by the likes of Florida, LSU, and USC.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I could not disagree any more. OSU had the horses to compete with Florida, but showed up fat and uninspired. That was far more embarrassing for me. The worst part was watching JT abandon his roots of power football, when that was the one thing Florida struggled with in the game.

2006 OSU was a team worthy of praise and hype, against an inconsistent UF squad. They showed up unprepared & were completely housed and demoralized.
2007 LSU saw OSU overmatched. This would have been easier to take, but OSU fans endured a year of heartache and bashing over the Glendale meltdown & SEC speed.
2008 USC was embarrassing.
2008 PSU saw two pretty evenly matched squads duke it out, and one turnover make the difference... much like 2005's matchup.

I understand the frustration and letdown after being so close, but I was not embarrassed by that team's performance. I was simply disappointed in how it turned out. I cannot say that about the Florida or USC game.

Last night, however, we really should have won the game, and but for perhaps the single most ill-advised, momentum-killing play in the history of Buckeye football, we probably would have won the game. And that just plain sucks....

This is a mountain of hyperbole imo... and absolutely does not deserve to be called the most crushing nor the most foolish (even with a synonym) mistake in history.

10) Was it just me, or did the whole team seem flat for most of the game?

I've yet to figure out how the defense gets rolled up into so many of the 'flat' comments. There are some who are not always as physical as we'd like, but too often this year the offense has played uninspired football, and afterwards the passion is questioned for the whole team. Are we watching different football games?

The defense made no big plays (no turnovers, one sack), did nothing to change the momentum of the game, couldn't hold Penn State to a field goal after the Pryor fumble, and couldn't force the Lions to punt on their final drive.

No big plays? Clark wasn't getting pressured all night?

They held Penn State to a field goal on their final drive. I'd say they gave their offense a chance there.

It's really not fair to compare the two. Oklahoma doesn't ask their defense to play near-perfect games, because they ask the offense to score 50+ every time out. However, at Ohio State, Jim Tressel really thinks that he can regularly win games by a score of 9 to 3, so he asks for perfection from his defense and special teams, and ball control from his offense. Is Tresselball a sound philosophy? Well, that's a different (and very good) question for another day ... but Tresselball is reality in Columbus for the forseeable future.

OU also has a troy-esque offense. I'm not fond of some of the coaching tactics, but they tried to blow teams out of the water in 2006 (and to a fault vs UF, imo).

Maybe. But a quarterback sneak is hardly the time to free lance. If the play gets stuffed, then go back to sideline and tell the coach that the blocking just wasn't there. (Believe me, he watched the game and he'll understand). He'll punt, and Penn State will get the ball back at their own five-yard line ... and not your 38-yard line ... and maybe you end up eking out a 6-3 ball game.

It seems to me he was breaking free from the tresselball mindset, which would have failed otherwise... and given Penn State a full quarter to pick up one field goal.

He was trying to WIN, not hold on. Perhaps he should take better care of the ball, or drive through the defender given his location... but that decision seems to be the exact kind of aggression and killer instinct we crave. Accepting failure because it's safe seems to be exactly what you're preaching against.

 

[Apache]

The Difference

The difference was, Penn State made a key play (turnover) when they needed and then took control with a back up qb and went down and scored. Penn State had no penalties in the game (I think) and made fewer mistakes. When it was all said and done, Penn State outplayed the Bucks at the line of scrimmage, and gave up no scoring pass plays. Holding Beanie Wells to 55 yards rushing was a feat in and of itself. If Ohio State got the first down on the called sneak, what then? No one knows for sure. But the field position would have been dramatically against Penn State. Ohio State's defense was not up to the challange after the "sudden change".

An awful good game played by both teams. Be proud they left it on the field. Ohio State still has issues but they are our Bucks. If Ohio State has to lose a game like that, be glad it is to a team that has class on not some bogus Skunkerine team. :osu:

 

[xcrunner]

I'm a little late here but, in my inexpert opinion:

The positives (and yes I like to focus on the positives at least as much as the negatives...):

1) I thought we played with a hell of a lot of passion. Especially the defense. We were flying to the ball, we were aggressive, I liked it.

2) Hard to tell from TV, but the crowd seemed really into it. It sucks to lose at home... It really sucks... But if it had sounded quiet, I would have been [censored]ed.

3) Good receiver play. We've had a whole lot of drops recently.. Not so much at MSU but the games before that it seemed like we had the most inconsistent receivers ever, when their strength was supposed to be consistency. Well, Robo especially had some completely clutch catches. Sanz looks great, I'm getting really excited about him. Before the season, it seems like every post on this board regarding the WR's (my own posts included) were fears about them getting separation. They've been getting separation.

4) Did Pryor get sacked at all? I don't remember to be honest. I have a feeling there was one, but I don't really want to go back and check. Either way, ALREADY, a few games into the season, he's learning from some of his biggest mistakes. That's impressive, in my opinion.

5) Pryor is also looking like he's improving as a passer. Kind of hard to tell from TV.

6) I'm fine with his decision to take it to the outside. Granted, I'm not a football expert- quite the contrary- but in my opinion, that was just a great play by the safety. 99/100 times it doesn't result in a fumble. Most of those 99 result in a first down. A lot of the others might result in 6 points. It seems like we love to talk about how we shouldn't sit on a 3 point lead, and then when we don't, we criticize it...

7) Beanie looked about as good as he could given the OLine.

8) I liked the playcalling.
There, I said it. I liked the playcalling. Someone else said 12/25 first down plays were passes. It didn't seem like that to me, but either way, I didn't notice running plays on first down every single time like some people have said. Someone else said that Pryor passed to 8 different receivers. Again, it seems like it was a little less than that.. I can't think of all 8... But he definitely passed to quite a few.

Regarding the playcalling/those who think we should open it up more... Seriously? You think we should have Pryor try to do more? Again, not a football expert, but it seems to me like we're having Pryor do just the right amount. It also seems to me that throwing Pryor into a scenario where he might throw 4 picks in a game and ruin his confidence isn't the best idea.

9) Regarding the playcalling again, the TE's were open a few times... We've been (trying) to use them a lot more... Quite happy about that.. That's been my biggest beef with the playcalling (which is why it deserves its own number! :p).

10) DLine has been better than I thought it would. Not amazing or anything, but holding its own, and today we actually got a ton of pressure. Very pleased with the performance.

11) Our secondary... Wow. Aside from one blown coverage... Which hurt... very impressive. Penn St. has a great QB and 3 GREAT WR's, and we shut them down pretty darn effectively.

12) Hey, Brandon Saine got a nice catch. I like using him as a WR. He's got talent but it isn't really showing up on the football field. Using him the way we did today is, in my opinion, the best way to start at least. I continue to hope (with less confidence as the season goes on) that he can have a breakout game. I'm starting to think he's going to end up being the type of player that has 1 or 2 pretty good plays a game. I'd be fine with that.

Now the cons...

1) Pryor still has a lot of work to do as a passer. Underthrown passes, threw some late, and missing lots of open receivers. 100% expected as a freshman, and a lot better than I thought he'd be at this stage, though.

2) OLine. I don't know what the problem is exactly... But it's obvious there is one... Talent? Doesn't seem like it can be. Effort? Possibly. Lack of depth? Certainly doesn't help. Coaching? Again, possibly, I hope whatever it is, we can fix it, because... Wow. Pre-season, I was not expecting the line to be this bad.

3) Interior D-Line still getting beat badly a lot of the time.. That hurts. But was also expected pre-season. I think what hurts is that this seems like the best they can possibly do. Personally, I was hoping that nights like tonight would be their norm, and their best would be better...

4) I feel bad as hell for Pryor. I hope he doesn't beat himself up for this game. Hubris a problem? Maybe a little. Not too worried about it, but whenever you get a highschool phenom, I feel like you have to be worried that they'll consistently think that they can do anything. Hopefully he thinks he can do, well, about exactly what he actually can do .

5) ...O-Line needs to be mentioned again :/

6) Why, why did we have to lose to State Penn.. Oh well.. Good thing there aren't too many PSU fans down here in Florida.


That being said, it was a good game. I'm glad the nation got to see us in a game that was actually.. A game. If only it had gone the other way. If PSU makes it to the NCG, I hope they represent the B10 well.

Hopefully the Bucks don't take this loss the way a lot of the fans are. If they do, we lose next week... And probably every game after that to be honest. If they don't, I think we can win out, hopefully with a win over an SEC team in a bowl.


edit- Regarding the point that the defense played poorly because they allowed points at the end. This is an honest question- does this mean that you expect them to try harder when it's more important? That's what it comes across to me... In my opinion the D played just as well all day, the points just happened to be scored at the end. Maybe I'm wrong,

 

[Sportsbuck28]

While I do think our offensive line is weak and had a poor performance on Saturday, it goes much deeper than that. I don't care how good your line is, if they have 8-9 guys in the box on every play they are not going to run the ball on a consistent basis.

See: Beanie. 2007. scUM.

 

[scooter1369]

7) Beanie looked about as good as he could given the OLine.

5 OL < 8 man fronts.

I can't put a whole lot of crap on the line when three of them were expected to block 2 people. Penn State spent almost the entire game with 8 in the box, and like lemmings at a cliff, we kept running right for it.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

 

[OH10]

for perhaps the single most ill-advised, momentum-killing play in the history of Buckeye football

Stanley Jackson disagrees with you.

And more to the point, what did it cost Ohio State? A National Title? No. A Big Ten Championship? Probably. A trip to the Rose Bowl? Maybe not.

 

[Buckeneye]

And more to the point, what did it cost Ohio State? A National Title? No. A Big Ten Championship? Probably. A trip to the Rose Bowl? Maybe not.

It cost us a win, a probable BCS berth (rose or fiesta) a national spotlight win; and it reminds the country, Buckeye Nation, and some of the players that we still have what it takes to get it done.


So... yeah, it costs a little bit more every time.

 

[zincfinger]

A lot of the emotion on the board is coming from people having their bubble's burst. They had expectations that were frustrated last night.

What I'm having a hard time understanding is how those expectations survived this long into the season. I was at the OU game, and my expectations for this season ratched down a long way right then and there. It was clear to me then that this team was just not going to be what I thought they might be.

Personally, I was willing to optimistically believe the OU game was a product of i) OSU looking ahead, ii) missing their most potent offensive weapon, and iii) the opponent playing at above their normal level. Almost exactly like the '02 Cincinnati game. After the USC game, however, particularly the second half, I felt compelled to make the kind of reassessment you're referring to. And that reassement, including the following several games, was that this OSU team is capable of playing some very good football, and capable of playing some very mediocre football. Which makes them, on average, a pretty good football team. Unfortunately, that's less than we all expected at the start of the season.

But OSU had to play for 60 minutes like the very good team they ocassionally are, to beat this Penn State team, in my opinion. And they almost did it. They were one brutal mistake away. I agree with some of LordJeff's originating comments, but I disagree with his view that this game was more a story of 2-way offensive ineptitude than of 2-way defensive stoutness. The defense definitely exceeded my expectations of how it would probably play out. I certainly never like to see OSU lose, but this was probably the least demoralizing loss I've seen since Tressel's been the coach. There have probably been even a few ugly wins that I found more demoralizing. Overall, I like the direction this team is headed, particularly given where they were a month ago, and I think the remaining 4 games should be pretty fun. Not perfect, not what most expected, but fun nonetheless.

 

[zincfinger]

6) I'm fine with his decision to take it to the outside. Granted, I'm not a football expert- quite the contrary- but in my opinion, that was just a great play by the safety. 99/100 times it doesn't result in a fumble. Most of those 99 result in a first down. A lot of the others might result in 6 points. It seems like we love to talk about how we shouldn't sit on a 3 point lead, and then when we don't, we criticize it...

In my view, it was a good play by Rubin, but it was also Pryor swinging the ball away from his body while trying to elude a defender. I've noticed him doing that a few times previously this season, and each time I've thought, "I hope he gets that habit corrected before it burns him". Well, it burned him, and hopefully that will get it corrected.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

About the idea that we passed on first down a lot...
So 5 first down passes came on the last 5 first down plays on the last 2 drives with 6 something and 1 something left respectively when it was clear the Buckeyes had to score or lose. So for the first 54 minutes of the game the pass on first down ration was 7 / 20.

Doesn't look as hot now, does it?

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

About the idea that we passed on first down a lot...
So 5 first down passes came on the last 5 first down plays on the last 2 drives with 6 something and 1 something left respectively when it was clear the Buckeyes had to score or lose. So for the first 54 minutes of the game the pass on first down ration was 7 / 20.

Doesn't look as hot now, does it?

They weren't converting on the first down passes, which was a problem.

 

[RB07OSU]

But OSU had to play for 60 minutes like the very good team they ocassionally are, to beat this Penn State team, in my opinion. And they almost did it. They were one brutal mistake away. I agree with some of LordJeff's originating comments, but I disagree with his view that this game was more a story of 2-way offensive ineptitude than of 2-way defensive stoutness. The defense definitely exceeded my expectations of how it would probably play out. I certainly never like to see OSU lose, but this was probably the least demoralizing loss I've seen since Tressel's been the coach. There have probably been even a few ugly wins that I found more demoralizing. Overall, I like the direction this team is headed, particularly given where they were a month ago, and I think the remaining 4 games should be pretty fun. Not perfect, not what most expected, but fun nonetheless.

I agree with most of this. Really, we just saw two great defense spar. It was a really good game and the atmosphere made it exciting for me to watch. However, this game hurt me worse than any I can remember in awhile (maybe 1998 with MSU...I cried my 3rd grade eyes out). While I was embarassed at getting blown out in the NC games, it didn't really hurt because last year we had no business being there anyways, and the year before we deserved nothing with the attitude we had going into the game. What hurt me so bad is to see the passion out of the D and it just wasn't enough. It hurt to see Laurinaitis, Jenkins, and all the players I have grown so fond of come back and give it their all, yet still lose a close one on one mistake. On that note, hats off to Penn State. It seems like they literally didn't make a single mistake all game and how can you lose when you do that? Conversely, we almost had no mistakes but the only one we made cost us the game. A freshman will make mistakes but I hate to see it happen on such a big stage, especially with TP against his home state. In any event, I'm trying to say that this game demanded perfection from both sides of the ball and that's a lot to ask. We played very well, the defense played excellent, and TP played a good game...it just wasn't enough. Even though leaving it all on the field is always the right thing, it makes it even tougher to swallow a loss like this and that's why it hurts me, because I know this game had to hurt our guys way more than it did me. When you follow these players every move, on every thread, on every publication, it's almost as if you are part of the team and want them to succeed like nothing else. We pride ourselves on not being your average fair weathered Buckeye fans here, so that means our response to the losses are going to be a tad more emotional than your fair weathered Buckeye fans. Nevertheless, after the anger and disappointment fade, it is still a great day to be a Buckeye. :osu:

 

[Onebuckfan]

Whatever the problems with this years team they began before the PSU game and before the USC game. I assumed(ass out of you and me) that a team losing Grant, Gholston and Barton would continue to improve..and with the addition of Wilson and the freshmen tOSU would be better. But right out of the box there were warning signs that this team was not going to live up to probably over-hyped expectations. Well's injury the need to replace TB only exposed more problems. Again our D plays good but does not force the turnovers or make the key stops needed to be a NC defense(They don't respond well to adversity, if its an offensive turnover or of their own making(penalties,blown coverage, or missed tackles). The OL has the same problem playing well in spurts then having a false start or blown assignment. Our coaches have rotated players changed formations..but it never seems to jell. I'm sure by now everyone is frustrated players coaches and fans. There are 3 games against average teams how this season plays out will give us a hint on what we can expect next year..self-scouting and soul searching are needed..JT has a big job and many moves to make! Good luck and Go Bucks

 

[Brutus1]

All Pisarcek had to do was take a knee and the game was over. It was a completely different story for Pryor. Perhaps Earnest Byner would be a better comparison.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I agree with most of this. Really, we just saw two great defense spar. It was a really good game and the atmosphere made it exciting for me to watch. However, this game hurt me worse than any I can remember in awhile (maybe 1998 with MSU...I cried my 3rd grade eyes out). While I was embarassed at getting blown out in the NC games, it didn't really hurt because last year we had no business being there anyways, and the year before we deserved nothing with the attitude we had going into the game. What hurt me so bad is to see the passion out of the D and it just wasn't enough. It hurt to see Laurinaitis, Jenkins, and all the players I have grown so fond of come back and give it their all, yet still lose a close one on one mistake. On that note, hats off to Penn State. It seems like they literally didn't make a single mistake all game and how can you lose when you do that? Conversely, we almost had no mistakes but the only one we made cost us the game. A freshman will make mistakes but I hate to see it happen on such a big stage, especially with TP against his home state. In any event, I'm trying to say that this game demanded perfection from both sides of the ball and that's a lot to ask. We played very well, the defense played excellent, and TP played a good game...it just wasn't enough. Even though leaving it all on the field is always the right thing, it makes it even tougher to swallow a loss like this and that's why it hurts me, because I know this game had to hurt our guys way more than it did me. When you follow these players every move, on every thread, on every publication, it's almost as if you are part of the team and want them to succeed like nothing else. We pride ourselves on not being your average fair weathered Buckeye fans here, so that means our response to the losses are going to be a tad more emotional than your fair weathered Buckeye fans. Nevertheless, after the anger and disappointment fade, it is still a great day to be a Buckeye. :osu:

to shut down the 95th ranked offense in the country, that doesnt take a great defense...
the play was not lost or won on one play. sure it hurt but pryor had chances to make other plays he didnt. nearly every player had the oppurtunity to make one play or another they didnt. to me it is a lot like a late free throw. sure you missed one late but how many people on the team missed a layup, a jumpshot, a three pointer, gave up an easy basket on defense, gave up a rebound that resulted in a basket by the other team, or a rebound that could have contiued the offensive possession? while some plays are more magnified, it does not mean that one play actually had a bigger outcome than any other in the game...