Penn State Aftermath

[sparcboxbuck]

I see all sorts of descriptions of the problem with this team and the reason we lost to PSU. I see numerous suggestions on what must change. But the answer is really quite simple:

Somebody needs to FIX IT!

Somebody needs to look at what is wrong with this offense and FIX IT!

It Pryor is being misused somebody needs to FIX IT!

And when they fix that they need to find the next problem and FIX IT!

And the next time I log on it better be FIXED!

Repeat as necessary until it's FIXED!

[fix what?]

IT! FIX IT!

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Fix it! Fix it!
Fix it! Fix it!
Fix it! Fix it!
Fix it! Fix it!
Fix it! Fix it!

 

[jwinslow]

Scout.com: Afraid to ask this question...

Other posters have already touched on this, but the game plan was NOT conservative, at least not in the first half. Every time our offense fails to score points, everyone assumes that the playcalling was off or that the coaches were playing not to lose. Good offenses can have bad games. Good defenses can make good offenses look bad. It happens all the time.

Here's some facts about the Ohio State game for you:
-We ran more plays out of the shotgun in the first half than in the first half of any other game this season.
-We ran more 4+ wide formations in the first half than in the first half of any other game this season.
-We used more pre-snap motion in the first half than in the first half of any other game this season, except Illinois.

Now obviously, pre-snap formations and motion don't single-handedly define an open offense, but they are an indicator of one. All those signs of an non-conservative offense showed up in the first half, when we scored three points. All that got put away after Clark came out in the fourth quarter. We then scored ten points by handing the ball off 11 times, running three QB sneaks and passing once. Based on these results, I think the staff should stick to the more conservative offense.

Of course, every fan uses different criteria to define what constitutes good play-calling, which is why I prefer to focus on in-game execution. Here are some real, easily-proven, undeniable examples of why our offense didn't move the ball well against Ohio State:
-Clark faced pressure on 7 of his first 17 pass attempts (41%), much more than he's faced in any other game this season. That pressure caused 5 bad passes or throws into coverage. Another pass was batted at the line. A lot of these passes killed drives or put our offense in bad situations to sustain drives.
-Late in the first quarter, we're putting together a nice 8-play drive that started at our own 14-yard line. We had the ball on our own 48, facing a 3rd and 6. We came out 4-wide with Clark under center and Royster in the backfield. Ohio State , I believe, was in a nickel. At the snap, Clark takes a 5-step drop. The two slot receivers run short crossing routes, each guy pulling a linebacker along as they finish their routes going outside. Royster sneaks out of the backfield and is wide open in the middle of the field where the linebackers just got cleared out. Brilliant call, if you ask me. But what happens is, instead of stepping up in the pocket and delivering the ball, Clark feels the pass rush, tries to run outside and gets taken down for a 3-yard loss, ending our best drive of the game (at the time).
-Our next possession, we have a first down at our own 48 (basically where we left off previously). We come out in the shotgun, 4-wide, with Derrick Williams in the backfield. The play call is a screen to Williams in the left flat. Again, a great call, in my opinion. The safety's playing deep, leaving only one DB on that side, while we have two receivers available to block. The ball is snapped, the pass is made and Williams is tackled for a 3-yard loss. Why? Because both Graham Zug and Deon Butler, two of our better blocking receivers, both whiff while attempting to block the one cornerback. One guy should have been able to make the block! That put us down in a 2nd and 13 and we punted two plays later.
-Next possession, the one where we scored the field goal, we were moving the ball down the field (mostly thanks to the long completion to Zug) and had a first down on OSU's 19-yard line. Handoff to Royster, who doesn't see the huge hole on the right and tries to squeeze through blocks by Cadogen and Lucian. He could have had a huge gain, but only picked up a yard instead. On the next play, we called an inside route to Deon Butler near the endzone. Clark throws the ball right at Marcus Freeman. On the next play, we call a screen to Royster. After making the catch and needing to beat one guy, Royster inexplicably changes direction and runs laterally, where he is easily contained by Freeman. He then gets drilled from behind by an OSU lineman. Had he just cut up field and plowed ahead, he might have gotten the first down. Instead, we kicked a field goal.
-On the first possession of the second half, we start out with a 9-yard run to the left with Royster, a very conservative call out of our bread-and-butter offensive formation. The sad thing about this very simple play is that it could have gone for a much larger gain. Royster gets tackled by the right cornerback, and if you watch earlier in the play, Derrick Williams goes to block that guy and misses. Had he made the block, there's no telling how far Royster would have gone. Williams missed another block the next play that resulted in a 2-yard gain and first down, but could have gone much longer. It's also worth noting that we were lined up illegally on that play (only six men on the line) and were lucky to get away with one.

 

[Bleed S & G]

now if only i can convince jt...

Paging DrewZwick

 

[NastyDogg72]

Having let a few days pass I find myself agreeing even stronger with LJB on a few points.

1. The offensive line has been as major a disappointment as I can remember in a very long time. Going into the season the talk was about how this could be one of the best lines ever at tOSU. Unfortunatley it couldn't be further from it. The talent just isn't there, the basic techniques that even we armchair quarterbacks know are the foundation of a solid O-Line, are not present. When Beanie has to scream and yell at the O-Line on the sideline in the first quarter of a game this large you know there is a problem.

2. The defense played OK, but this is not one of the top 20 defenses to have ever played at tOSU. They play hard but there just doesn't seem to be the same intensity that the great ones always have. Don't get me wrong there are some great players on this defense, Malcolm for one, but as a unit they are not one of the best. That PSU team wouldn't have gained 5 yards on the '02 defense after the fumble.

3. Those were two slightly above average teams that played on Saturday night. Before the game many had said that if PSU won they would pull for them to win out and get to the NCG, this isn't sour grapes because we lost, but I have to hope that either PSU gets upset and loses a game or that Texas and Alabama both win out. I really feel like our Conference needs a break from the NCG. If PSU wins out and goes to the NCG and faces Texas, USC, Oklahoma or a very scary looking Florida team they will get their doors blown off. The Big Ten can't handle another blowout loss on the biggest stage and if Saturday night is any indication of how good the best team in the Big Ten is, that is exactly what will happen. I don't say that as someone who is buying into the media hype, I say it as someone who has been watching College Football as long as I can remember. If you look at the play on the field in the Conference right now and you are 100% honest you would agree that our best is just not up to par with the best in other conferences around the country. All things are cylical and our time will come again soon, but right now it is someone elses turn.

This is still a quality team that has the talent to play in a New Years Day Bowl and great things are ahead. One thing that made me proud of my fellow Buckeyes was what I saw on Sunday. I am the manager of the golf department at a sporting goods store here in Columbus and my department is right by the tOSU section of the store. Even after the dissapointment of the night before I watched all day Sunday as people bought just as much tOSU gear as you would have expected had they won the night before.

Go Bucks, beat Northwestern.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

3. Those were two slightly above average teams that played on Saturday night.

Give me a break! Teams like Cal, Maryland, Michigan St., etc. are just above average. We're good and PSU is very good.

 

[NastyDogg72]

Give me a break! Teams like Cal, Maryland, Michigan St., etc. are just above average. We're good and PSU is very good.

No, Cal and Michigan St. are Average

Maryland is Below Average

Oklahoma, Florida, USC and Alabama are Good

Texas is Very Good

 

[SEREbuckeye]

A few seasons tend to have a quote they live by, 2002 was "Holy Buckeye!"
Given the dissapointing (by the hype coming into 08) season we are having, we could easily sum this season up with:

"Yeah...well, at least we aren't Michigan!"

 

[jwinslow]

No, Cal and Michigan St. are Average

So the majority of d1 football is below average? That doesn't compute.

 

[martinss01]

So the majority of d1 football is significantly below average? That doesn't compute.

fify

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I understand the frustration and letdown after being so close, but I was not embarrassed by that team's performance. I was simply disappointed in how it turned out. I cannot say that about the Florida or USC game.

I never said that I was "embarrassed" by the loss, just "disappointed". In fact, I never get embarrassed when the Buckeyes lose, because, quite frankly, I didn't do (or not do) anything to contribute to the defeat ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team. On the other hand, I never feel "proud" or gloat when the Buckeyes win, because I didn't do anything to contribute to the victory ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team.

This is a mountain of hyperbole imo... and absolutely does not deserve to be called the most crushing nor the most foolish (even with a synonym) mistake in history.

Okay, then name some others ... in situations that mattered.

I've yet to figure out how the defense gets rolled up into so many of the 'flat' comments.

Consistently letting Penn State players get three to five yards after contact isn't exactly evidence of a defense playing "charged up" football. They played a fine game, but Penn State clearly had more drive, energy, and desire on both sides of the ball.

No big plays? Clark wasn't getting pressured all night?

One sack, no forced fumbles, no interceptions, three 15-yard penalties....

Getting pressure is great, but when the QB consistently escapes that pressure to make positive or "neutral" plays, then I'd have to say, "so what...?"

They held Penn State to a field goal on their final drive. I'd say they gave their offense a chance there.

Okay, I'll make one final attempt to explain myself here. Throw out what happened during the first 50 minutes of the game ... forget the score, the yards gained, the individual plays, etc. The fact remains that, when Penn State got the ball with approximately ten minutes left in the game, the Buckeyes had a three point lead. If the defense could have held Penn State scoreless the rest of the way, then it's a win for the good guys. But they didn't ... and instead they gave up 52 yards rushing, 30 yards in penalties, 6 first downs, tackled poorly, got beat in the trenches, and gave up ten points. Sorry, but that's not championship-caliber play from a defense ... and I really don't care what they did during the first fifty minutes, because in crunch time, they couldn't get the job done.

And I don't really care what the offense did in the first fifty minutes, either. Am I satisfied with the fact that the offense manged only 6 points through the first 50 minutes? Hell no ... but those measly, paltry 6 points were still good enough to give the Buckeyes the lead with 10 minutes left to play.

Is my assessment entirely fair? Is it how I "really" feel about the defense's performance? It doesn't matter, because Tresselball essentially requires the defense to play like champions regardless of how poorly the offense plays ... and regardless of what field position they are stuck with.

It seems to me he was breaking free from the tresselball mindset....

Tresselball is the mindset, and the team (and the fans) should probably get used to that. That mindset might change some day, but until then, it doesn't make a lot of sense for an individual player (or a group of players) to challenege that mindset on the field during a crucial moment of an important game.

....which would have failed otherwise...

So? If it fails, it fails ... and then you go back to the sidelines and watch your punter do his job and your defense do their jobs. The failure to pick up the necessary yardage can be blamed on several factors - the lack of blocking, a bad read by the QB, a predictable play call, or simply superior play by the opponent. The fumble can only be blamed on Pryor's freelancing and trying to be a hero (he saw the endzone) when all he needed to do was be a good soldier and run the play as it was called.

...and given Penn State a full quarter to pick up one field goal.

Which they had anyway ... except that after the fumble, they had the ball at Ohio State's 38-yard line, and after a punt they would have had the ball - at best - at their own 20-yard line. That (at least) 42-yard differential in field position (4+ first downs) is absolutely huge ... not to mention the tremendous shift in momentum that Penn State received after the fumble that they would not have had after a punt.

He was trying to WIN, not hold on. Perhaps he should take better care of the ball, or drive through the defender given his location... but that decision seems to be the exact kind of aggression and killer instinct we crave. Accepting failure because it's safe seems to be exactly what you're preaching against.

And Tressel was trying to WIN by calling a safe play. If the play fails to gain the necessary 18 inches, then we can all blame him for "conservative" play calling. Yes, we want our team to have aggression and a killer instinct ... but within the team structure ... and in accordance with the coaching staff's game plan. I can accept failure under those circumstances, because then it would be a team failure ... but I cannot accept failure when an individual freelances, because in that case he is not performing within the team concept.

All Pisarcek had to do was take a knee and the game was over. It was a completely different story for Pryor. Perhaps Earnest Byner would be a better comparison.

Don't remind me....

to shut down the 95th ranked offense in the country, that doesnt take a great defense...

True. I really wasn't impressed with Penn State, but they did win, and that's really all that counts.

the play was not lost or won on one play. sure it hurt but pryor had chances to make other plays he didnt. nearly every player had the oppurtunity to make one play or another they didnt. to me it is a lot like a late free throw. sure you missed one late but how many people on the team missed a layup, a jumpshot, a three pointer, gave up an easy basket on defense, gave up a rebound that resulted in a basket by the other team, or a rebound that could have contiued the offensive possession? while some plays are more magnified, it does not mean that one play actually had a bigger outcome than any other in the game...

Again, true. But certain plays are definitely "tipping points", and Pryor's fumble was a highly-magnified tipping point from which the Buckeyes were never able to recover the momentum, and after which they lost the lead and ultimately the game. As I stated above, the defense certainly had the opportunity to save the day for the offense in general and for Pryor in particular, but their level of play declined in the final ten minutes when the team needed it to be elevated even further.

the arrogance occasionally displayed by ohio state fans sickens me and i haven't seen arrogance to this degree around here since the month leading up to the 06 nc game.

"we're ohio state, we don't have moral victories"

"we're ohio state, we don't have good losses"

If you're into "good losses" and "moral victories", then there are plenty of programs out there for you.

"we lost a game, the season is over"

You might want to consider my statement in its proper context:

After the USC game, I said that the Buckeyes' season was officially "over", and that Tressel should start Terrelle Pryor for the remainder of the year so that he could gain valuable experience for the 2009 season. It worked. Now I'm saying that the Big Ten season is officially "over", and that Tressel should open up the offensive play book so that Pryor can gain valuable experience for the 2009 season. Please listen....

With the Buckeyes basically out of the Big Ten title hunt, I was simply hoping that the coaching staff would allow the offense to play with more "aggression" and a "killer instinct", to use JWinslow's words.

"we're ohio state, we should win 80 to 90% of our games every year"

And we shouldn't? What makes a season "special" is not beating up on non-conference patsies and Big Ten pushovers, but winning big games against quality teams like USC, LSU, Florida, Texas, Penn State, and (formerly) Michigan. Ohio State should get ten or eleven wins almost every season just based on their schedule ... so why get all excited about that? But there haven't been too many "big" wins lately....

can anyone tell me what the win/loss % is on an 11-2 season?

Yeah, it's .846 ... now see above.

oh and just for the record, if the season is over... stop watching the fucking games. don't watch them on tv, don't go to the stadium. if you have tickets, feel free to sell them to someone who seems to be under the misguided delusion that there are still a few more games left on the schedule.

Thanks for the advice.

i realize your contribution and impact to the team is absolutely vital and all. but i suspect that pryor and the boys won't even realize your gone.

Thanks for the rant ... now I'll re-state what I wrote above, just in case you missed it the first time:

I never said that I was "embarrassed" by the loss, just "disappointed". In fact, I never get embarrassed when the Buckeyes lose, because, quite frankly, I didn't do (or not do) anything to contribute to the defeat ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team. On the other hand, I never feel "proud" or gloat when the Buckeyes win, because I didn't do anything to contribute to the victory ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Okay, then name some others ... in situations that mattered.

Foolish?

Roy Hall attacking Teddy Ginn '06 Nat Champ. game

 

[Zander42]

3. Those were two slightly above average teams that played on Saturday night. Before the game many had said that if PSU won they would pull for them to win out and get to the NCG, this isn't sour grapes because we lost, but I have to hope that either PSU gets upset and loses a game or that Texas and Alabama both win out. I really feel like our Conference needs a break from the NCG. If PSU wins out and goes to the NCG and faces Texas, USC, Oklahoma or a very scary looking Florida team they will get their doors blown off. The Big Ten can't handle another blowout loss on the biggest stage and if Saturday night is any indication of how good the best team in the Big Ten is, that is exactly what will happen. I don't say that as someone who is buying into the media hype, I say it as someone who has been watching College Football as long as I can remember. If you look at the play on the field in the Conference right now and you are 100% honest you would agree that our best is just not up to par with the best in other conferences around the country. All things are cylical and our time will come again soon, but right now it is someone elses turn.

I don't agree but I understand the thought. I think that there is a natural tendency to take a more critical view of college sports as you get older. When you view these games as a kid, you see these guys as heros, I worshipped Keith Byers, I was also 10 when he played. Years later, the players look more like nehpews or younger brothers, and after watching so many games, it's easier to see the flaws in nearly every play.

I also think it's natural to be more critical of current teams as opposed to past teams. The 02' season lives only in highlight reels and our ever more fuzzy memories. Hell, last years team lives only in highlights as well. Highlight viedoes only show the best plays and it's very common to only remember the good times of the past (i.e. the good ole' days).

Finally, I think it is media hype that is portraying Big Ten play as being poor. Don't buy into that. I have watched a lot of other conferences play this year and I don't see much difference, overall. I see Big 12 teams racking a lot of points on each other, but I don't see much good defense at all. The SEC is still good, probably better than the Big Ten, but not my much. I can't imagine how anyone would think that the Pac 10, ACC or Big East were any better. I would love to see a Texas/PSU NCG. There is no reason to believe it wouldn't be a tough, close game, I think we'll get to find out.

 

[BB73]

4) The fumble was definitely Terrelle Pryor's "Joe Pisarcik Moment"

I agree that the fumble was the result of Pryor trying to do too much and not protecting the ball adequately, but I think that comparing it to the total ineptitude of what Joe Pisarcik did in 1978 is hyperbole, and I'm astonished that you would make the comparison.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzUHvg6QbaU"]YouTube - MMI[/ame]

 

[3yardsandacloud]

Okay, then name some others ... in situations that mattered.

I'll take a crack.

October 11, 2003

Night kickoff. National TV audience. 80,000 at Camp Randell

Ohio State, defending National Champs, ranked #3, 5-0, 1-0 in conference and on a 19 game winning streak.

Wisconsin, ranked #23, 6-1, 2-0 in conference. The loss? A 23-5 home loss to UNLV. Wisconsin was playing without star tailback Anthony Davis (ankle). Soon they would be playing without starting QB Jim Sorgi thanks to OSU LB Robert Reynolds. The next play they kick a field goal. Wisky up 10-3 with 5:09 in the 3rd quarter.

OSU ties the game with a 75 yard, 7 play drive with 6:09 left in the game.

Here's the play. I'm sure you've figured it out by now. And no, it wasn't Robert Reynolds horrific choke move earlier in the game.

On second down, WR Lee Evans runs an out-and-up route. And future first round draft pick, OSU CB Chris Gamble bites on the "out". No help as Dustin Fox was blitzing on the play. Evans is WIDE open for a TD pass from Matt Schabert. Remember him? Yeah, not many do. 5:20 remain.

Bucks never get back in the game. The next drive stalls and we punt with 3:27 to go. Matt Schabert converts 2 more first downs. Ballgame.

Wisconsin goes on to: lose 5 of their next 6 games.



Was TP's fumble a game changer? Yeah. Was it the biggest momentum killer in OSU history? Nah. There are huge plays like this in every game, every season, for every school. Heck, there are probably quite a few that only the coaches know about and we the fans never even realize. Maybe the story I relayed doesn't seem to resonate with Buck fans. I know that personally, I was so disgusted after seeing the Reynolds choke on replay that I didn't care one bit if OSU lost that game. Maybe that takes the "sting" off Gambles gaff. Maybe it eases the pain of seeing an unknown 2nd string QB (who transferred to Eastern Illinois the next year) beat us for the winning score, then seal the deal with 2 first down runs. Heck, we were defending champs, in the top 5. That loss should have been much worse than PSU. We still had everything in font of us. Not so this season.

I guess all things mellow with age. I would hazard a guess that TP's fumble won't be such a horrific play when viewed through the lens of time.