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Penn State Aftermath

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BUCKYLE;1310851; said:
Any answer besides "insufficient beardage", and I put you on ignore.
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Considering the source, I think it may have something to do with the number of points scored relative to the number of points allowed.

Just a hunch.


[old guy]
and how about the '74 MSU game?

or how about tossing eleventy interceptions vs. scum in '69?

or how about blowing it against FUCKING STANFORD in the rose bowl? :smash:
[/old guy]
 
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DaddyBigBucks;1310891; said:
Considering the source, I think it may have something to do with the number of points scored relative to the number of points allowed.

Just a hunch.
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Oh, I know. I'm going with the theory that poins for/against is directly related to beardage for/against. Any attempt to shift focus to points is, in fact, shifting focus away from the real problem.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1310323; said:
I never said that I was "embarrassed" by the loss, just "disappointed". In fact, I never get embarrassed when the Buckeyes lose, because, quite frankly, I didn't do (or not do) anything to contribute to the defeat ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team. On the other hand, I never feel "proud" or gloat when the Buckeyes win, because I didn't do anything to contribute to the victory ... I just watched the game and rooted for my team.
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Fine, substitute 'very upset' for 'embarrassed'.
Okay, then name some others ... in situations that mattered.
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Troy Smith 05 INT? Rob Reynolds choke? The Roy Hall suggestion was spot on as well.

I have a hard time finding Pryor bouncing a stuffed run to be more "foolish" than these, all from veterans.
Consistently letting Penn State players get three to five yards after contact isn't exactly evidence of a defense playing "charged up" football. They played a fine game, but Penn State clearly had more drive, energy, and desire on both sides of the ball.
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I just re-watched the game and simply cannot understand calling the entire team flat for most of the game. The defense was fired up and punishing ball carriers.

If you want to say down the stretch, they needed to play better, fine. But MOST OF THAT GAME they were as charged up as I've seen in awhile in a big game.
One sack, no forced fumbles, no interceptions, three 15-yard penalties....

Getting pressure is great, but when the QB consistently escapes that pressure to make positive or "neutral" plays, then I'd have to say, "so what...?"
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So when Hines smokes Clark and Freeman drops the near pick, that's just chalked up to "so what" for you?

When OSU consistently reaches Clark with pressure, forcing him to throw it poorly or away, that's a 'so what' achievement?

Pretty unfair, imo. If they reach Clark, but he somehow gets off a pass that goes for a first, I understand that. But when they end and disrupt plays with consistency, that's not a 'so what' achievement to me, especially on 3rd downs (which happened frequently).
Okay, I'll make one final attempt to explain myself here. Throw out what happened during the first 50 minutes of the game ...
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I realize you're addressing just this span of time (given my quote), but in general, your analysis seems to treat those 50 minutes as irrelevant.
Sorry, but that's not championship-caliber play from a defense ... and I really don't care what they did during the first fifty minutes, because in crunch time, they couldn't get the job done.
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Is this the context for your analysis? That it's 2002-esque immovable force or bust? Obviously that's their goal, but there's plenty of praise to be given for units who play hard but below that extremely lofty standard.

How many players would you say underachieved on saturday night? Contrast that with how many excelled or overachieved, and you'll get to why I take issue with your broad-sweeping declaration of flat play.
Is my assessment entirely fair? Is it how I "really" feel about the defense's performance? It doesn't matter, because Tresselball essentially requires the defense to play like champions regardless of how poorly the offense plays ... and regardless of what field position they are stuck with.
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It absolutely does matter, and this duality is a bit frustrating, LJB. You're pretty obviously unhappy with the current system (as seen by certain jabs, like the 9-3 thing), but then use it as a cover at other times.

Do you or do you not like OSU to try and win 9-3? And if not, then stop falling back on it. I understand you're trying to establish the framework in which Pryor must operate, but it would be helpful if you'd do more than imply your frustration, especially when that frustration is with something you base other arguments upon.
Tresselball is the mindset, and the team (and the fans) should probably get used to that. That mindset might change some day, but until then, it doesn't make a lot of sense for an individual player (or a group of players) to challenege that mindset on the field during a crucial moment of an important game.
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So was it foolish for Troy to risk a fumble on his heisman moment vs Penn State in 06?

If Pryor picks up a first down or moreso, a long gain there, is it still foolish?
So? If it fails, it fails ... and then you go back to the sidelines and watch your punter do his job and your defense do their jobs. The failure to pick up the necessary yardage can be blamed on several factors - the lack of blocking, a bad read by the QB, a predictable play call, or simply superior play by the opponent.
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and would that outcome have upset you or not?
The fumble can only be blamed on Pryor's freelancing and trying to be a hero (he saw the endzone) when all he needed to do was be a good soldier and run the play as it was called.
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So then are we hoping Pryor is trained out of his freelancing?

I hope he is taught to understand the situation, and settle at times (perhaps there and drive thru the defender), but the last thing I want Pryor losing is his freelancing.
Which they had anyway ... except that after the fumble, they had the ball at Ohio State's 38-yard line, and after a punt they would have had the ball - at best - at their own 20-yard line. That (at least) 42-yard differential in field position (4+ first downs) is absolutely huge ... not to mention the tremendous shift in momentum that Penn State received after the fumble that they would not have had after a punt.
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It seems to me that that shift in momentum (which could have been stolen back if Freeman stuffs Royster in the backfield like he was ready to do) was more to blame than any personal attitude regarding 'charged/flat' play.
And Tressel was trying to WIN by calling a safe play. If the play fails to gain the necessary 18 inches, then we can all blame him for "conservative" play calling. Yes, we want our team to have aggression and a killer instinct ... but within the team structure ... and in accordance with the coaching staff's game plan. I can accept failure under those circumstances, because then it would be a team failure ... but I cannot accept failure when an individual freelances, because in that case he is not performing within the team concept.
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Pryor left the team concept when he did not protect the football. If he holds onto the ball there but falls short, is he really that off-base? Not that much imo, and certainly not enough to be hailed as the most foolish play of all time by a buckeye.
 
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Both LJB and jwins have valid points. But to me, the defense played well above what I expected. I had hoped to hold PSU under 20. If you would have told me that PSU would have only 3 points entering the fourth quarter I would have been doing backflips down my cul-du-sac. The problem is that the offense played even farther below what I expected, with most of that being on the OL, and some on our lack of a passing threat. Six freaking points. True freshman QB or not, that's not acceptable. Beanie was completely neutralized. Pryor missed (as in failed to find) more than a few open receivers, and also short-hopped that pass to a wide-open Robo that cost us a drive.

We are going to see the exact same shit from opposing defenses the rest of the season until Pryor starts finding his second and third reads and starts consistently hitting open receivers. The zone-read option won't fucking work with 8-9 defenders within three yards of the LOS. We need to use the TE more in pass routes (had Pryor hit a wide-open Ballard streaking down the middle, not only would we have a huge TD, it would've put an instantaneous end to PSU stacking the LOS). Opponents have zero fear of our passing attack. While Pryor needs to learn to find WRs quicker and go through his progressions, he can do that only when the OL gives him time to do so.
 
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jimotis4heisman;1310842; said:
or the slip against purdue when they hit the long pass down the sideline for the rosebowl. or one of the two slips in the 90s against um. or the 98 msu game in the redzone.

i could go on for awhile...
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:pissed::pissed::pissed::pissed::pissed::pissed: MSU game and shit.


The only reason that's not at the top of the list is that there were about 20 plays in that one. BUT...

Let me toss this out there, since it's a bye week and I might as well stir something up. I view that game, based on talent differential, location, what it cost us, and a variety of other factors as the most painful (if not the worst) loss in OSU history. However, Cooper and the team were up 24-9, as I recall, in the 3rd quarter. He then started calling all running plays, relying on the OL, the running game, the defense, and the special teams to kill the clock with a 2nd half lead on a .500 team at home.

Wasn't Cooper playing Tresselball?
 
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It needs to be noted that the tOSU defense limited the 3 senior WRs for PSU (Williams, Butler, and Norwood) to a combined total of 6 catches and 28 receiving yards.

The fumble can only be blamed on Pryor's freelancing and trying to be a hero (he saw the endzone) when all he needed to do was be a good soldier and run the play as it was called.
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That's perhaps not the only may to look at the fumble. It could be viewed as a good read and inadequate ball security. This is Jim Cordle after the game:

"That's the right read when they have four guys in two A-gaps," said Cordle. "Then there's a gap outside of that. It was the right read.The guy made a great play."
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I actually find it absurd that someone would suggest that we either live up to the 2002 defense or it's not championship quality. That's nonsense. We didn't score enough...it wasn't a defensive problem.

I could understand frustration with the offense as it has appeared to be a weaker link on our teams for almost every year other than 2006. And many are now wondering why our O-lines, in spite of what we always seem to think are stellar linemen, do not seem to win the battle enough. That line of questioning, I can understand. But the defense...I don't get it..especially in relation to the PSU game.
 
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