Game Thread Ohio State vs Oklahoma, 09/09/17 @ 7:30 ET (ABC)

[bukIpower]

Well I love your enthusiasm for your team as well as your analysis of the Buckeyes' rushing attack, but I must respectfully disagree with you overall.

First off, I love how you're writing off Westbrook's departure as a major "hindrance" to OU's offense. We've added Badet and a bevy of talented receivers in our 2017 recruiting class and Andrews is the best tight end in college football, bar none. It remains to be seen about our running backs, but our receiving corps faces no dropoff. If you think OSU will outscore OU by more points than last year in Norman, well I must say you sound just like me when I was over here sunshine-pumping the Sooners before our game last year when I predicted the Sooners would score 57.

In all honesty, I think Mayfield and Andrews will exploit OSU's greatest weakness this year which is their entirely new secondary after losing Lattimore, Hooker and Conley to the draft. You may have some talent there right now, but it is still raw and Indiana was able to carve them up before the Buckeyes woke up in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

This analysis from Eleven Warriors gives the perfect explanation of the Sooners' attack and what the Buckeyes must do to stop it. Hope you enjoy this:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...eg-schiano-and-the-ohio-state-defense-against

If you're telling me a Kentucky transfer in Badet and a bunch of freshman are better then the best WR in football last year, Geno the PSU transfer and Miller the kid who got hurt then I'm even more confident. Your QB made them look good against a bad Utep team last week.

These DBs practice against better WRS everyday in practice that we have. Not because the potential isn't there for your guys because I'm sure they'll be good by the time they graduate. It's because at least our guys arent so young.

I'll full on give you Andrews. He's a nightmare for our secondary and as I said last weekend we have no excuses to allow Andrews time and space to make catches. He's your only proven threat and if it's me I double him.

Again though if you're relying on freshman at WR or non contributors for their careers like Mead then not sure how you expect crazy success. What we faced last weekend in Bloomington will be 3x the challenge that your WRs will bring.

I think as I said OU will have success against our defense because of Mayfield but I think we improved on offense which your Sooners didn't have an answer for.

 

[scarletngray]

Honestly that's all we have to do IMO... stop Andrews, and yes it's that simple. If we let Andrews go off that's just not smart football on our end and for the record I bet we let Andrews go for around 100 (which will be unacceptable).

We need to run the ball and keep them off the field because we did it last year and defensively they're about the same as last year on skill. No excuses if we lose this game and although the spread is 7 points in my eyes we should win this by 17+ (No offense RC).

Roughly the same teams for both sides but where it gets rough for OU is although we lost Samuel we added Dobbins. Where as OU did not replace Westbrook, Geno, Perine or Mixon. Not to mention they lose Miller to Injury and now lost their depth at corner.

I will not be surprised to see this game be close early and hell wouldn't be shocked to see OU up 17-14 at the half. When it comes the 4th quarter though how OU is able to handle our depth up front will decide this game. Not to mention 2 backs that will keep each other fresh by the time the 4th comes around.

If OU had trouble with a tired Weber last year in the 4th quarter what will happen with a fresh Weber in the 4th?

You add all that with having an extra 3 days of time to rest and prepare and I think OSU covers...

OSU-49 OU- 27

3 extra days of prep is huge
Home field advantage also adds another edge
We have the better coaching staff
We have the speed advantage on both sides of the ball
We do well at night under the lights
We have an excellent running game. This is huge and will be the difference maker
The talent and depth along the D line will be to much over 4 quarters

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Well I love your enthusiasm for your team as well as your analysis of the Buckeyes' rushing attack, but I must respectfully disagree with you overall.

First off, I love how you're writing off Westbrook's departure as a major "hindrance" to OU's offense. We've added Badet and a bevy of talented receivers in our 2017 recruiting class and Andrews is the best tight end in college football, bar none. It remains to be seen about our running backs, but our receiving corps faces no dropoff. If you think OSU will outscore OU by more points than last year in Norman, well I must say you sound just like me when I was over here sunshine-pumping the Sooners before our game last year when I predicted the Sooners would score 57.

In all honesty, I think Mayfield and Andrews will exploit OSU's greatest weakness this year which is their entirely new secondary after losing Lattimore, Hooker and Conley to the draft. You may have some talent there right now, but it is still raw and Indiana was able to carve them up before the Buckeyes woke up in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

This analysis from Eleven Warriors gives the perfect explanation of the Sooners' attack and what the Buckeyes must do to stop it. Hope you enjoy this:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...eg-schiano-and-the-ohio-state-defense-against

Just because I'm a glutton for punishment......can you explain the differences between you losing Westbrook and being fine because you got a transfer you've never seen play vs OSU losing Lattimore, Hooker, and Conley? Did we apparently not replace them with anybody? Are we running 8 guys out there on defense?

 

[jwinslow]

First off, I love how you're writing off Westbrook's departure as a major "hindrance" to OU's offense.

1500 yds and 17 TDs will do that.

We've added Badet

He hasn't cracked 31 catches in 3 years of regular PT. I tend to think he will given the opposing defenses he'll face, but until he actually does it, selling him as an easy replacement for the nation's best WR is pretty rich.

and a bevy of talented receivers in our 2017 recruiting class

That's debatable, but OSU did too. OSU fans aren't listing a single one of them as a key to the game, nor would they be touting them as clear replacements for stud NFL departures. Last year Noah Brown was viewed as a good player but not within miles of Michael Thomas (except when he played OU, of course).

and Andrews is the best tight end in college football, bar none. It remains to be seen about our running backs, but our receiving corps faces no dropoff.

Zero dropoff. Ok.

If you think OSU will outscore OU by more points than last year in Norman, well I must say you sound just like me when I was over here sunshine-pumping the Sooners before our game last year when I predicted the Sooners would score 57.

I don't think that, but then I've actually admitted there are weaknesses on my favorite team's roster.

In all honesty, I think Mayfield and Andrews will exploit OSU's greatest weakness this year which is their entirely new secondary after losing Lattimore, Hooker and Conley to the draft. You may have some talent there right now, but it is still raw and Indiana was able to carve them up before the Buckeyes woke up in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

OSU has 2 new guys in Sheffield and Smith (or Fuller). Webb started and Ward was a starter in the nickel. The other guy is Arnette who played a lot and has moved up from the dime corner last year.

This analysis from Eleven Warriors gives the perfect explanation of the Sooners' attack and what the Buckeyes must do to stop it. Hope you enjoy this:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...eg-schiano-and-the-ohio-state-defense-against

Could you kindly link to some similar critiques of your team, since you obviously don't possess them?

 

[jwinslow]

Before we get into it, I'd like to point out that not only were these numbers against hapless UTEP, but OU was throwing early and often with a 4-6 TD lead.

With a 35-7 lead, OU threw on 75% of their downs on one drive. They never faced a 3rd down. They only faced one 2nd down after their lone running play. Naturally, Jeff Badet was in the game catching passes with a giant lead despite the offense being filled with backups.

On their final drive, Oklahoma was still passing with their third QB. With a 56-7 lead, they threw on 5 out of 11 snaps, including all four second downs.

First off, I love how you're writing off Westbrook's departure as a major "hindrance" to OU's offense. We've added Badet and a bevy of talented receivers in our 2017 recruiting class

Let's breakdown this claim, specifically the recruiting comment.

Badet is a 3-star WR who has not cracked 31 catches in 3 years of trying. He played for a trash program, so perhaps he'll overcome that in a high octane offense facing little to no defense in conference play.

Let's examine the "bevy of talented WRs" comment, as it pertains to instant impact (a tall order for any recruit):

#14 WR 87 ovr 6'2" CeeDee Lamb - quality pickup. Comparable but better than OSU's second WR, 6'5" Jaylen Harris (#20 WR, 137 ovr).
#23 WR 171 ovr 6'2" Rambo - quality player. Not a high 4/5 star guy but solid. The kind of WR that OSU landed before the last few classes.
not ranked WR 5'11" Marquise Brown - eh, notably different than high 3-star Elijah Gardner? Probably not.
OSU's best pickup was #9 WR Trevon Grimes, who was a 5-star heading into his senior year (limited camping and an ACL injury hurt his rating)

Definitely a good class. Not a rare one by any stretch, but solid.

Even Mike Farrell, who recently talked about Lamb becoming a DeDe type, provided context and said he could definitely see him becoming that down the road.

So how'd they do?

Jeff Badet 4 rec 91 yds - two which came after 35-7 and the insertion of backups
CeeDee Lamb 3 rec 21 yds 1 td.
Rambo - no stats
Marquise Brown 3 rec 32 yds.

In case you're wondering how challenging the opposing defense was, RB Marcelias Sutton had 2 rec for 29 yds arguably outpaced both on 2 rec

Let's look how the overall greatness of the recruiting classes:

#1 Ohio State signed 4 ***** 14 **** 3 ***
#9 Oklahoma signed 1 ***** 9 **** 17 ***

% of class that was a 3*

14% OSU
61% OU

% of class that was a top-100 player
62% OSU
11% OU

The ratio of OU low-ranked signees is nearly identical to OSU's blue chip ratio.
As is the ratio of OSU's low-ranked signees to OU's blue chip ratio.

 

[Tanner]

Urban saying Dobbins will start the game is a little surprising unless Weber's hamstring is still barking

 

[AJHawkfan]

In all honesty, I think Mayfield and Andrews will exploit OSU's greatest weakness this year which is their entirely new secondary after losing Lattimore, Hooker and Conley to the draft. You may have some talent there right now, but it is still raw and Indiana was able to carve them up before the Buckeyes woke up in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

You might be correct, but before you automatically assume OSU's new secondary is a liability, perhaps consider that at this time last year Latimore, Hooker, Webb & Ward were all inexperienced & raw. The result? Mayfield 17/32 226 yds., 2 TD's, 2 Int's. Andrews 4 rec 57 yds 1 TD.......Just sayin...

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

In all honesty, I think Mayfield and Andrews will exploit OSU's greatest weakness this year which is their entirely new secondary after losing Lattimore, Hooker and Conley to the draft. You may have some talent there right now, but it is still raw and Indiana was able to carve them up before the Buckeyes woke up in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

As I posted here:

Lagow played in the first seven of their eight 2nd-half possessions. Here is the passing breakdown per possession and cumulative 2nd-half stats:

1 for 2, 0 yards
3 for 3, 6 yards
6 for 8, 61 yards, TD
0 for 2, 0 yards
1 for 2, 9 yards
1 for 2, 12 yards
4 for 8, 44 yards, INT

16-27-1 (59.3%), 1 TD, 132 yards (4.9 YPA)

We all but shut down a solid passing attack in the second half. Now that our young secondary has game under their belts as a unit, I doubt it will take them a full half to settle in. Keep in mind that IU's running game was held to negative yardage until late in the fourth, so IU had only the passing game.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

I believe I called for a 31-17 win a few pages back. Starting to get a tad nervous which is pretty typical for a Thursday ahead of a top 10 match up. Seems to me that OU actually matches up better with us this year than last year even though it is in the Shoe and we bring back more starters. Not gonna lie - the inexperienced secondary concerns me and Mayfield is a very good college QB who can just make things happen. Our strength at DLine matches up with their strength along the OLine. I'm not calling for a loss but this OU team is tricky to figure out. The interesting thing will be whether they can get any kind of run game going. If they don't at least have that threat then I don't think they have a shot. Our secondary will clearly be tested and won't win every battle but to me the LB play by the Buckeyes could be something to watch. I have confidence in Schiano scheme wise and Worley playing QB on the defense. Will one of the safeties step up? Big opportunity for them to make some plays. Any chance Okudah rotates in? Lots of things to look for defensively.

For some reason, despite the sluggish first half vs. IU the offensive game is less worrisome to me. Unless OU rolls out some stud I don't see coming the ground game will surely favor the Buckeyes. And, I wouldn't be surprised to see McCall getting some looks the coaches have been holding back; some misdirection or gadget plays if the 1-2 punch of Weber and Dobbins is rolling. I have a hard time seeing tOSU having trouble scoring but a shootout would worry me a bit. Regardless I don't see the Buckeyes scoring less than 35-38 but will it be enough?

Have to like our special teams play. Kick off coverage looked stellar against IU and is a vastly overlooked aspect of the game. Make Baker go 85-90 yds on each drive and I like our chances.

 

[jwinslow]

You might be correct, but before you automatically assume OSU's new secondary is a liability, perhaps consider that at this time last year Latimore, Hooker, Webb & Ward were all inexperienced & raw. The result? Mayfield 17/32 226 yds., 2 TD's, 2 Int's. Andrews 4 rec 57 yds 1 TD.......Just sayin...

Last year at this time, only Conley had any substantial experience. Hooker, Webb & Ward had only played in garbage time. Lattimore had played a little bit but fought injuries (about as much PT as Erick Smith).

Heading into this year:

CB1 Ward - starting nickel back last year in base D, lined up outside much of the time
CB2 Arnette - 4th corner (#6 DB) last year, played a lot early in games, trial by fire
S Webb - returning starter, switched spots
S Smith - #3 safety for a few years, played occasionally (either as 3rd safety or with injuries)
or
S Fuller - played a little bit, mostly in garbage time
CB3 Sheffield - juco last year

So you have two veterans, 1 2nd year guy who played a lot, 1 senior that played some and a new juco.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

Urban saying Dobbins will start the game is a little surprising unless Weber's hamstring is still barking

Well you know 181 yards and a post game "You haven't seen anything yet" from Urban doesn't exactly hurt JK's chances of getting the nod over Weber.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Some keys in my opinion for a tOSU win

Contain Baker Mayfield and prevent him from extending broken plays
Shut down the run game/Andrews early and force OU to be one dimensional on offense
Good ST's
3rd down defense as well as 3rd down efficiency on offense to extend drives and keep the defense rested.

just my 2 cents on what I think will be important Saturday.

Only key to victory is SCORE MORE POINTS.

GO BUCKS!

 

[RCSooner1974]

RC, did you predict the Sooners would beat the Buckeyes last year? Or more likely you were really, really, really hoping !!! Oklahoma would win.

Last year I was kind of hoping, but I figured your coaches would expose our new corners and Barrett and Noah Brown took advantage of that.

If you're telling me a Kentucky transfer in Badet and a bunch of freshman are better then the best WR in football last year, Geno the PSU transfer and Miller the kid who got hurt then I'm even more confident. Your QB made them look good against a bad Utep team last week.

These DBs practice against better WRS everyday in practice that we have. Not because the potential isn't there for your guys because I'm sure they'll be good by the time they graduate. It's because at least our guys arent so young.

I'll full on give you Andrews. He's a nightmare for our secondary and as I said last weekend we have no excuses to allow Andrews time and space to make catches. He's your only proven threat and if it's me I double him.

Again though if you're relying on freshman at WR or non contributors for their careers like Mead then not sure how you expect crazy success. What we faced last weekend in Bloomington will be 3x the challenge that your WRs will bring.

I think as I said OU will have success against our defense because of Mayfield but I think we improved on offense which your Sooners didn't have an answer for.

Jeff Badet was Kentucky's leading receiver for 3 straight years...with no quarterback. Team him with Baker, and he'll be lights out.

Just because I'm a glutton for punishment......can you explain the differences between you losing Westbrook and being fine because you got a transfer you've never seen play vs OSU losing Lattimore, Hooker, and Conley? Did we apparently not replace them with anybody? Are we running 8 guys out there on defense?

Badet played last week, versus UTEP. Care to re-word that?

1500 yds and 17 TDs will do that.He hasn't cracked 31 catches in 3 years of regular PT. I tend to think he will given the opposing defenses he'll face, but until he actually does it, selling him as an easy replacement for the nation's best WR is pretty rich.
That's debatable, but OSU did too. OSU fans aren't listing a single one of them as a key to the game, nor would they be touting them as clear replacements for stud NFL departures. Last year Noah Brown was viewed as a good player but not within miles of Michael Thomas (except when he played OU, of course).

Zero dropoff. Ok.
I don't think that, but then I've actually admitted there are weaknesses on my favorite team's roster.
OSU has 2 new guys in Sheffield and Smith (or Fuller). Webb started and Ward was a starter in the nickel. The other guy is Arnette who played a lot and has moved up from the dime corner last year.
Could you kindly link to some similar critiques of your team, since you obviously don't possess them?

Before we get into it, I'd like to point out that not only were these numbers against hapless UTEP, but OU was throwing early and often with a 4-6 TD lead.

With a 35-7 lead, OU threw on 75% of their downs on one drive. They never faced a 3rd down. They only faced one 2nd down after their lone running play. Naturally, Jeff Badet was in the game catching passes with a giant lead despite the offense being filled with backups.

On their final drive, Oklahoma was still passing with their third QB. With a 56-7 lead, they threw on 5 out of 11 snaps, including all four second downs.Let's breakdown this claim, specifically the recruiting comment.

Badet is a 3-star WR who has not cracked 31 catches in 3 years of trying. He played for a trash program, so perhaps he'll overcome that in a high octane offense facing little to no defense in conference play.

Let's examine the "bevy of talented WRs" comment, as it pertains to instant impact (a tall order for any recruit):

#14 WR 87 ovr 6'2" CeeDee Lamb - quality pickup. Comparable but better than OSU's second WR, 6'5" Jaylen Harris (#20 WR, 137 ovr).
#23 WR 171 ovr 6'2" Rambo - quality player. Not a high 4/5 star guy but solid. The kind of WR that OSU landed before the last few classes.
not ranked WR 5'11" Marquise Brown - eh, notably different than high 3-star Elijah Gardner? Probably not.
OSU's best pickup was #9 WR Trevon Grimes, who was a 5-star heading into his senior year (limited camping and an ACL injury hurt his rating)

Definitely a good class. Not a rare one by any stretch, but solid.

Even Mike Farrell, who recently talked about Lamb becoming a DeDe type, provided context and said he could definitely see him becoming that down the road.

So how'd they do?

Jeff Badet 4 rec 91 yds - two which came after 35-7 and the insertion of backups
CeeDee Lamb 3 rec 21 yds 1 td.
Rambo - no stats
Marquise Brown 3 rec 32 yds.

In case you're wondering how challenging the opposing defense was, RB Marcelias Sutton had 2 rec for 29 yds arguably outpaced both on 2 rec

Let's look how the overall greatness of the recruiting classes:

#1 Ohio State signed 4 ***** 14 **** 3 ***
#9 Oklahoma signed 1 ***** 9 **** 17 ***

% of class that was a 3*

14% OSU
61% OU

% of class that was a top-100 player
62% OSU
11% OU

The ratio of OU low-ranked signees is nearly identical to OSU's blue chip ratio.
As is the ratio of OSU's low-ranked signees to OU's blue chip ratio.

First off, where was that secondary versus Clemson last year, and then IU??? IU has a new coach and the same talent level as Iowa State in the Big XII, yet they put up more than 400 yards through the air. You don't think Baker Mayfield will have a similar looking performance???

And to be honest, those high school rankings are irrelevant now that those players are in college. OU and OSU have talent, no doubt. But it's still too early to count your chickens before they hatch. Right now, Lamb and Calcaterra look REALLY good for OU. Rambo is redshirting and Marquise Brown is a playmaking JUCO transfer in the mold of former OU WR Jalen Saunders. A.D. Miller was a non-contributor for much of last year, but he played well against OSU. He's now out with an injury, but OU's depth is perfectly fine at WR with Lee Morris and Mykel Jones.

OU will be a team to be reckoned with in 2018 with Kyler Murray at QB and an improved defense and 3 starters back on the offensive line. OU is really good this year, but next year will be scary! (For teams facing OU.)

You might be correct, but before you automatically assume OSU's new secondary is a liability, perhaps consider that at this time last year Latimore, Hooker, Webb & Ward were all inexperienced & raw. The result? Mayfield 17/32 226 yds., 2 TD's, 2 Int's. Andrews 4 rec 57 yds 1 TD.......Just sayin...

Lattimore was your best play making corner you've had in a long time and he reminds everyone of Antonio Cromartie. Hard to match the level of athleticism with Lattimore and Hooker. Denzel Ward I think is your best DB this season, who's in the mold of Conley and former OSU corner Bradley Roby, but OU should match up just fine with a taller receiver lined up against him. The rest of your DBs are still unproven.

As I posted here:


We all but shut down a solid passing attack in the second half. Now that our young secondary has game under their belts as a unit, I doubt it will take them a full half to settle in. Keep in mind that IU's running game was held to negative yardage until late in the fourth, so IU had only the passing game.

IU with a brand new coaching staff and a QB who would only be half-decent in the Big XII is less than 10% the offense OU has right now.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

Last year I was kind of hoping, but I figured your coaches would expose our new corners and Barrett and Noah Brown took advantage of that.

Jeff Badet was Kentucky's leading receiver for 3 straight years...with no quarterback. Team him with Baker, and he'll be lights out.

Badet played last week, versus UTEP. Care to re-word that?



First off, where was that secondary versus Clemson last year, and then IU??? IU has a new coach and the same talent level as Iowa State in the Big XII, yet they put up more than 400 yards through the air. You don't think Baker Mayfield will have a similar looking performance???

And to be honest, those high school rankings are irrelevant now that those players are in college. OU and OSU have talent, no doubt. But it's still too early to count your chickens before they hatch. Right now, Lamb and Calcaterra look REALLY good for OU. Rambo is redshirting and Marquise Brown is a playmaking JUCO transfer in the mold of former OU WR Jalen Saunders. A.D. Miller was a non-contributor for much of last year, but he played well against OSU. He's now out with an injury, but OU's depth is perfectly fine at WR with Lee Morris and Mykel Jones.

OU will be a team to be reckoned with in 2018 with Kyler Murray at QB and an improved defense and 3 starters back on the offensive line. OU is really good this year, but next year will be scary! (For teams facing OU.)

Lattimore was your best play making corner you've had in a long time and he reminds everyone of Antonio Cromartie. Hard to match the level of athleticism with Lattimore and Hooker. Denzel Ward I think is your best DB this season, who's in the mold of Conley and former OSU corner Bradley Roby, but OU should match up just fine with a taller receiver lined up against him. The rest of your DBs are still unproven.

IU with a brand new coaching staff and a QB who would only be half-decent in the Big XII is less than 10% the offense OU has right now.

How come your conference doesn't play defense? Just curious. Asking for a friend.

 

[RCSooner1974]

How come your conference doesn't play defense? Just curious. Asking for a friend.

Probably the same reason the Big Ten doesn't play offense? I don't know...does that answer your question?