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Game Thread Ohio State vs Oklahoma, 09/09/17 @ 7:30 ET (ABC)

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Dryden said:
Just imagine how great trials would be if judges announced their decisions by putting on a big paper mache head of either the prosecuting attorney or defense attorney.
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Does the fake out move... gets the defense headgear ready and then goes "forget about it! He gets the chair" then throws on a headgear like the electric chair has.. so much more fun.

Btw he always picks the buckeyes.. and has a damn good record doing it so that argument fails
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
And now for a word on talent disparity....

I decided to go ahead and take a peek at the talent on each of Ohio State's and Oklahoma's rosters, as kept by 247. First, I fully acknowledge 247s numbers aren't without their own problems, but at least they are a metric. Likewise, these numbers don't necessarily capture "coaching up" a player - as both Baker Mayfield (.8384) and Orlando Brown (.8731) are surprisingly low on the lists. Similarly, All Big Ten D-Lineman Tyquan Lewis is relatively low at .8978 It should be also noted, a high rating does not necessarily mean a player should be starting for his team - for example, the Buckeyes boast a highly rated freshman class, but Baron Browning (.9940) shouldn't necessarily be the starting MLB over Chris Worley (.8675) Those caveats aside, and recognizing that overall talent does, in fact, exist here's some things that stood out....

Oklahoma's highest rated player is Kyler Murray at 0.9853. Ohio State has SIX players rated higher; Nick Bosa .9965, Chase Young .9957, Jeffrey Okudah .9955, Baron Browning .9940, Shaun Wade .9904 and Wyatt Davis .9876. Reserve Linebacker Justin Hilliard comes in at .9849

Roster-wide, the average Oklahoma player rated .879575 - or the equivalent of Ohio State's Gavin Cupp. The Average Ohio State Player is rated: .923423 - and that's when you include Long Snapper Liam McCullough (.7828) Remove him and the average player is: .92511. To put that into perspective, Ohio State's average player would be 18th best player on Oklahoma's roster. Or, if you prefer, OU's Jordan Parker would be Ohio State's 44th most talent player on the roster.

Oklahoma has 27 players rated .9007 or higher. Ohio State has 55.

Ohio State's worst rated player is, again, LS Liam McCullough at .7828 - OU has 4 players rated lower than him. In fact, removing specialists Sean Nurenberger (.8321) and Blake Haubeil (.8296) as Ohio State next two lowest, and we find Davon Hamilton rated .8457 - which would be slightly behind OU's Dimitri Flowers (.8487). In other words, 17 Oklahoma Players are rated behind Davon Hamilton... For those keeping score at home, that's a lot.

Here's a chart showing the disparity as a graph:

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I next looked at the two deep for each team, on both sides of the ball. The site I used is linked HERE for OU, and so as to be consistent, HERE for OSU.

Oklahoma's highest rated starter is Mark Andrews .9387. Ohio State Starts the following, all of who are rated as high or higher than Andrews: Mike Weber .9604 or JK Dobbins .9791, Austin Mack .9614 or Bin Victor .9500, Johnnie Dixon .9639, Jamarco Jones .9696, Michael Jorden .9387, Isiah Prince .9496 and Marcus Baugh .9598

Ohio State's lowest rated starter on Offense is Branden Bowen at .8666. Oklahoma will start three/four players rated lower - Center Eric Wren (NR), Baker Mayfield .8384, FB Dimitri Flowers .8487, Ben Powers .8647

The average OU Offensive starter is rated .8158 - Ohio State average is .9414 OU starts 8 players who rate less than a .9 Ohio State starts 1 In fact, if we include Ohio State's entire two deep, the Buckeyes have only 5 players rated lower than .9. Oklahoma? 17 Again, this is somewhat misleading, as Baker Mayfield starts in front of Kyler Murray, despite Murray being rated .9853 and Mayfield at .8384. Still, when considered on the whole, the talent disparity shines through quite a bit.

Things don't get better for OU when we look at the Defense.
OU's top defender is Caleb Kelly at .9836 with Neville Gallimore number two at .9616. followed by Steven Parker at .9466. Everyone else is rated below .8771 (MLB Kenneth Murray) Ohio State, though hard to predict who will actually take the field for the first snap, starts as many as 6 players rated higher than Parker. In Ohio State's two deep, all but Tracy Sprinke (.8594), Tyquan Lewis (.8978), Damon Arnette (.8596) Robert Landers (.8719), Tuf Borland (.8933) and Malik Harrision (.8568) are rated .9032 or higher (Denzel Ward). In other words, OU's 4th rated defender, Kenneth Murray would be Ohio State's 18th rated defender. Stated a bit more directly, in this particular instance - OU's starting MLB would be competing for playing time at LB with reserve Malik Harrison.

The average OU starting defender is .8092 (It should be noted, the site I used has DJ Ward starting at DE, and he does not have a 247 rating) while Ohio State's is at a .9190 - tossing out the DJ Ward issue OU does rise to a .8901 average, though it's not known what the rating of the player they would start might be.

It's funny, as I joked last night about the familiar Big XII boast that the REAL talent is in the second unit... Ohio State's second unit (And this would also depend on which linemen get the actual start) has an average rating of .9425 while OU's 2nd unit averages .8867.

Again, there is a lot more to football than 247 player ratings. They are good to get a feel for the relative talent taking the field on any given game day, but they surely are not indicative of what the result will be. There are obvious limitations to taking the rankings too seriously - Baker Mayfield and Orlando Brown stand out as two fairly obvious examples of under rated guys coming out of HS compared to their actual on the field production in college. Still, the numbers aren't entirely worthless either. The Buckeyes will have far more talent at their disposal come Saturday. With a talent disparity like at issue here, depth seems to among the advantages Ohio State can be evidenced as holding coming into this weekend's game.
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BKB is LJB?
 
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So I haven't posted in here in a really long time, but I do read from time to time! We've just left our house in NC (my husband is an active duty marine) to head to Marietta to drop our kids off then to Cbus! This pic was 10 minutes into our trip and let me add we have a 3 month old back there somewhere I am pumped for this game. Our neighbors are Oklahoma fans and they are meeting us in cbus Friday. He's refrained from too much shit talking other than Oklahoma didn't struggle like the Buckeyes in their opener. I didn't even watch the Oklahoma game and asked who they played. He responded UTEP . Can't wait for Sat!
 

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mdash said:
So I haven't posted in here in a really long time, but I do read from time to time! We've just left our house in NC (my husband is an active duty marine) to head to Marietta to drop our kids off then to Cbus! This pic was 10 minutes into our trip and let me add we have a 3 month old back there somewhere I am pumped for this game. Our neighbors are Oklahoma fans and they are meeting us in cbus Friday. He's refrained from too much [Mark May] talking other than Oklahoma didn't struggle like the Buckeyes in their opener. I didn't even watch the Oklahoma game and asked who they played. He responded UTEP . Can't wait for Sat!
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Safe travels and I hope you're spared the wrath of Irma where you live.
 
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OU
jwinslow said:
Kirk (and many others) overreacted to the struggles of the corners. They were miles ahead of Gareon Conley, Eli Apple and Damon Arnette when they made their debuts, who looked like mid-major talents because they were wide-eyed, mentally slow and out of their depth as brand new guys.
- Ward is not new (OSU's base D is nickel and he often lined up outside) but he's no longer the #5 DB (and 4th best guy after 3 first rounders). He's now the man. He needs to get a little better fighting for the football but his technique, speed and coverage was about as good as last year. Mark Andrews probably still has nightmares about Ward's greeting last fall.
- Arnette was rough last year as a 6th DB in his debut year, much like the aforementioned debuts of Conley & Apple (eventual 1st round picks). He was pretty strong against IU.
- Sheffield was in his first college contest. His play was similar to Ward, he was right there athletically but was not physical or disruptive enough. Unlike Ward (who is a thin, long, ultra-fast cover guy), he is not lacking in physical strength, he just needs seasoning.

The safeties were a bigger concern to me. The first TD to the TE was on them I believe. Baker tried to cover their butts.

There were also a few blown coverages with gaping holes. That concerns me with a really polished offensive scheme. Also, I have a lot less confidence in Ward/Smith/Fuller in coverage against guys like Andrews and others lined up inside. Those guys are pure safeties and are not generational center-fielders like Malik Hooker.

OSU will need to maintain their savage pressure to help address that potential weakness. They also need to get home without much blitzing to eliminate hot reads inside behind the vacated blitzer. It will be interesting to see how they deploy the DEs.

Hubbard is a man against the run but is not as gifted as a pass rusher as others. Bosa has to be on the field, and it's not going to be in relief of the reigning B1G DL of the year in Tyquan Lewis (who is strong in all facets, just more of a top-2 round guy instead of a top-20 talent like Bosa). Jalyn Holmes is a really good senior specimen at 6'5" 270 lb who has been a fixture in the rotation for 3 years. Then you have the nation's best DE in Chase Young who is logging major minutes despite that log jam ahead of him.

OSU's DTs are very disruptive as well. Dre'Mont Jones is going to be a very high pick as a redshirt sophomore next april. Robert Landers (the fat man TD guy) is an undersized pass rushing DT, and Cornell made some big plays against Indiana's underwhelming OL.

I want to see how they do at the 1 tech spot. OSU has brought in loads of talented 3 tech guys, but their top 1 tech targets have largely landed elsewhere (Dexter Lawrence, Rashad Lawrence, Marvin Wilson, Christian Wilkins, Antwuan Jackson). Nose tackle and outside WR were the lone recruiting question marks until the last cycle or two. And to be clear, when I say that, I mean they weren't landing ludicrous talent at those spots like almost every other position.

It will be interesting to see how OSU holds up against a strong, physical OL. Chris Worley is a veteran at LB but had been playing OLB. He slid inside to replace starting Miami Dolphin LB Raekwon McMillan (injured). He's a really good LB, and the DTs in front of him are very disruptive, but how will the interior of that defense hold up in a street fight inside, especially if OU's wide open offense stretches the defense? How will the new second safety do in run support?

OSU will eat teams alive on 3rd and long. I want to see how they do on 3rd and short. They have the talent and disruption, but will they be able to hold up at the point of attack consistently?
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The OK OL is pretty much the same line as last year. So is our DL. I don't see OK controlling the line of scrimmage over the long haul. Add in some timely LB blitzes and I see another 5 sack day. I'm not concerned about OK running game. There is a drop off there with Mixon gone. Mayfield will probably be their leading rusher. My main concern is containing Andrew's. Hopefully he gets lit up again.

I agree that our DB's played excellent in the second half against IU. I think the silver bullets will be up to the task on Saturday night.

GO BUCKS!
 
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scarletngray said:
OU


The OK OL is pretty much the same line as last year. So is our DL. I don't see OK controlling the line of scrimmage over the long haul. Add in some timely LB blitzes and I see another 5 sack day. I'm not concerned about OK running game. There is a drop off there with Mixon gone. Mayfield will probably be their leading rusher. My main concern is containing Andrew's. Hopefully he gets lit up again.

I agree that our DB's played excellent in the second half against IU. I think the silver bullets will be up to the task on Saturday night.

GO BUCKS!
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Honestly that's all we have to do IMO... stop Andrews, and yes it's that simple. If we let Andrews go off that's just not smart football on our end and for the record I bet we let Andrews go for around 100 (which will be unacceptable).

We need to run the ball and keep them off the field because we did it last year and defensively they're about the same as last year on skill. No excuses if we lose this game and although the spread is 7 points in my eyes we should win this by 17+ (No offense RC).

Roughly the same teams for both sides but where it gets rough for OU is although we lost Samuel we added Dobbins. Where as OU did not replace Westbrook, Geno, Perine or Mixon. Not to mention they lose Miller to Injury and now lost their depth at corner.

I will not be surprised to see this game be close early and hell wouldn't be shocked to see OU up 17-14 at the half. When it comes the 4th quarter though how OU is able to handle our depth up front will decide this game. Not to mention 2 backs that will keep each other fresh by the time the 4th comes around.

If OU had trouble with a tired Weber last year in the 4th quarter what will happen with a fresh Weber in the 4th?

You add all that with having an extra 3 days of time to rest and prepare and I think OSU covers...

OSU-49 OU- 27
 
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