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OH OL Tommy Kraemer (Notre Dame Signee)

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Honor&Glory said:
I can't speak to schools outside of Cincinnati but in recent memory OSU has won its share against ND in recruiting the Catholic schools in Cincinnati. Hubbard and Hilliard come to mind in the last two years and Devier Posey from LaSalle in the last 7 years?. I'm just going off the top of my head so I'm sure I'm missing somebody that OSU lost out on. But I don't figure a kid like Hendrix or the St. X QB who was only offered by kelly to lure a lineman. Neither one of those kids had above MAC level talent. If OSU wants a kid out of X or Moeller or LaSalle they will always be in the hunt. Coombs has great relationships with those staffs. Elder is a different animal. Those particular west siders still hold the beliefs the Rudy just happened last year and ND is still relevant.
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I don't disagree, but I was talking about state-wide. Kids ND gets from Youngstown (Ursuline, Cardinal Mooney) choose ND mainly because it is a catholic university. If you look down the ND roster and note the Ohio kids, most are from Catholic schools. In fact, of the 106 players on the 2014 roster (http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/nd-m-footbl-mtt.html) only nine are from Ohio, and of those six are from Catholic schools. One of the three Ohio players from non-Catholic schools is from Elder Colerain. If ND was really so great, you'd figure they'd have more than 8% of their roster from its neighboring state which is one of the richest talent pools of high school players in the country. Also, look down the ND roster at all the other Catholic schools from a multitude of states. At a glance (I'm not going to parse all 106 players) it looks like a good half to two thirds of the players are from Catholic schools.

Ohio players on ND rosters:

From Catholic schools:

Byrne, Jimmy Offensive Line 6-4/295 FR Cleveland, OH/St. Ignatius
Fiessinger, Charlie Quarterback 6-1/194 SR Mason, OH/Moeller
Hounshell, Chase Defensive Line 6-4.5/275 SR Kirtland, OH/Lake Catholic
Kizer, DeShone Quarterback 6-4.5/220 FR Toledo, OH/Central Catholic
Matuska, Jacob Defensive Line 6-4.5/289 SO Columbus, OH/Bishop Hartley
Suttman, Ben Tight End 6-2/228 SO Kettering, OH/Archbishop Alter


From non-Catholic schools:

Grace, Jarrett Linebacker 6-2.5/253 SR Cincinnati, OH/Colerain
Hardy, Eilar Safety 5-11.5/202 SR Reynoldsburg, OH/Pickerington Central
Cage, Daniel Defensive Line 6-.5/325 FR Cincinnati, OH/Winton Woods
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Ohio players on ND rosters:

From Catholic schools:

Byrne, Jimmy Offensive Line 6-4/295 FR Cleveland, OH/St. Ignatius
Fiessinger, Charlie Quarterback 6-1/194 SR Mason, OH/Moeller
Hounshell, Chase Defensive Line 6-4.5/275 SR Kirtland, OH/Lake Catholic
Kizer, DeShone Quarterback 6-4.5/220 FR Toledo, OH/Central Catholic
Matuska, Jacob Defensive Line 6-4.5/289 SO Columbus, OH/Bishop Hartley
Suttman, Ben Tight End 6-2/228 SO Kettering, OH/Archbishop Alter


From non-Catholic schools:

Grace, Jarrett Linebacker 6-2.5/253 SR Cincinnati, OH/Colerain
Hardy, Eilar Safety 5-11.5/202 SR Reynoldsburg, OH/Pickerington Central
Cage, Daniel Defensive Line 6-.5/325 FR Cincinnati, OH/Winton Woods
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You missed Malik Zaire, Mili. He's from Kettering Alter also.
 
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You would think ND would look to talent-rich Ohio more often for recruits, but they typically do very poorly trying to pull any kids from the public school system. They rarely have more than 7-8 kids from Ohio on roster, and when they do have them they are typically Catholic school kids. In contrast, Michigan pulls 3 times as many recruits from the state of Ohio.
In recent years Notre Dame targeted a lot of California prospects, Florida, and Texas. 31 of the kids on roster came from those states last year. They'll pull from Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan as well, but not in the numbers you'd think given proximity. They only pulled 11 out of Illinois and 7 from their home state of Indiana, both smaller numbers than the kids they've taken out of CA. They've recently been trying to make inroads in Georgia and Louisiana, but it's tough sledding given SEC country.
 
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ulukinatme said:
You would think ND would look to talent-rich Ohio more often for recruits, but they typically do very poorly trying to pull any kids from the public school system. They rarely have more than 7-8 kids from Ohio on roster, and when they do have them they are typically Catholic school kids. In contrast, Michigan pulls 3 times as many recruits from the state of Ohio.
In recent years Notre Dame targeted a lot of California prospects, Florida, and Texas. 31 of the kids on roster came from those states last year. They'll pull from Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan as well, but not in the numbers you'd think given proximity. They only pulled 11 out of Illinois and 7 from their home state of Indiana, both smaller numbers than the kids they've taken out of CA. They've recently been trying to make inroads in Georgia and Louisiana, but it's tough sledding given SEC country.
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And the ND mystique doesn't exactly equate in SEC country either, most of the kids are SEC fans, and watching ND get bent over by Alabama a few years ago didn't help. Idk about the rest of Ohio but in Cincinnati, certain schools and neighborhoods worship ND, not so much at public schools.
 
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ulukinatme said:
You would think ND would look to talent-rich Ohio more often for recruits, but they typically do very poorly trying to pull any kids from the public school system. They rarely have more than 7-8 kids from Ohio on roster, and when they do have them they are typically Catholic school kids. In contrast, Michigan pulls 3 times as many recruits from the state of Ohio.
In recent years Notre Dame targeted a lot of California prospects, Florida, and Texas. 31 of the kids on roster came from those states last year. They'll pull from Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan as well, but not in the numbers you'd think given proximity. They only pulled 11 out of Illinois and 7 from their home state of Indiana, both smaller numbers than the kids they've taken out of CA. They've recently been trying to make inroads in Georgia and Louisiana, but it's tough sledding given SEC country.
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This probably needs to go in another thread, but I think the biggest problem is arrogance.

Notre Dame refuses to be a "regional power" due to their delusions of grandeur about still being the premiere national team/brand in college football.

So they will never, ever join the Big Ten and they will never focus their recruiting efforts in Chicago/Ohio/Michigan no matter how much sense it makes- because in their minds that would be admitting they are a Midwest power instead of a national one.

Compare that to Ohio State, who put up a fence around Ohio for a decade under Tressel, which allowed them to dominate the Big Ten for a decade, which now allows them to get their guys in Ohio at a very high rate but to also hit basically anywhere in the country (Florida/SEC, Texas, West Coast, and especially DC/Maryland/Virginia) and pull premiere kids with the best of them.

You need to walk before you can run, which means establishing a local base of solid recruiting and consistent success before you go national.

I, for one, am happy Notre Dame apparently can't figure that out.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
This probably needs to go in another thread, but I think the biggest problem is arrogance.

Notre Dame refuses to be a "regional power" due to their delusions of grandeur about still being the premiere national team/brand in college football.

So they will never, ever join the Big Ten and they will never focus their recruiting efforts in Chicago/Ohio/Michigan no matter how much sense it makes- because in their minds that would be admitting they are a Midwest power instead of a national one.

Compare that to Ohio State, who put up a fence around Ohio for a decade under Tressel, which allowed them to dominate the Big Ten for a decade, which now allows them to get their guys in Ohio at a very high rate but to also hit basically anywhere in the country (Florida/SEC, Texas, West Coast, and especially DC/Maryland/Virginia) and pull premiere kids with the best of them.

You need to walk before you can run, which means establishing a local base of solid recruiting and consistent success before you go national.

I, for one, am happy Notre Dame apparently can't figure that out.
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Funny thing is Kelly and their OC have deep roots in the Midwest and the Northeast but still choose to go up against the south and west. Urban has gotten a staff that has had success in the south which helps us immensely. Urban is still highly revered in FL, LJsr is beloved in the DMV, Coombs can walk on water in Cincy and is getting quite comfortable in _ichigan, and Beck has roots in Texas and the Southwest. Makes a difference. But it still baffles me that ND is so arrogant to ignore their large home base. They'd be a pretty solid team if they focused on IL, IN and parts of OH. To bring the convo back to Kraemer, his side of town worships ND like its the 60s or 70s and could get a large number of public school kids bit refuses. Like you said, arrogance is holding them back. And I don't see it changing any time soon. No problem to me, we'll show them how a team from the Midwest can actually win NCs and not fall on their face on the big stage
 
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Despite not focusing more exclusively in the Midwest for talent, they certainly haven't struck out with the recruits they've gone after. Over Kelly's tenure they haven't had a class ranked worse than 20th by Rivals (2012), and they're typically ranked right around 10th on average the other years (8th currently for 2015, 11th in 2014, 3rd in 2013, 10th in 2011, 14th in 2010). On the other hand, many of those classes haven't always held up long term, a number of talented players have transferred for various reasons (Academics, not seeing the field early enough or as often, typical reasons). There's been quite a bit of attrition, but that's nothing new at ND.

So, the talent is there, and the current coaches do a much better job than the previous administration at developing that talent based on recent drafts, but the Irish are stuck mostly at 8-5 and 9-4 type seasons most years for various other reasons. For the last few years it's been a multitude of defensive injuries, suspensions, and QB deficiencies, the later of which should be resolved pretty soon based on recruiting. Play calling has been a problem as well, there's been some boneheaded calls from the OC's over the years, Kelly included. They'll go pass crazy against a team that's weak against the run, then other times they'll put together a pretty decent plan like against LSU. The schedule on paper looks favorable this year, and they return 19 starters. If they can figure out what they're doing at QB and stay healthy, they're setup for a decent run this season. Those are big if's though, and methinks Kelly will want to throw the ball more than he should when they should be using their experienced line and backs to pound the ball.
 
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