Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[BB73]

I haven't had the time to do a ton of research here at work, but has ND had any infractions due to improper benefits or other forms of cheating? I have a guy here at work acting as if NoD hasn't had issues like that.

They were put on probation in December, 1999 for a female booster who was giving some of the players impermissible benefits, sexual and otherwise.

Link

Notre Dame, which for generations has symbolized the glamour and glory of college football, was placed on probation yesterday for the first time. However, the penalties the South Bend, Ind., university received were minor.

The probationary term handed down by the National Collegiate Athletic Association resulted from an investigation of almost two years into two series of events. The main one involved the actions of a booster, Kimberly Dunbar, who lavished gifts on football players with money she later pleaded guilty to embezzling.

In the second series of events, a football player was accused of trying to sell tickets he received free to a game and of using tickets he received free for three games as repayment of a loan. The player was also said to have been romantically involved with a woman (not Dunbar), a part-time tutor at the university, who wrote a term paper for another player for a small fee and provided players with meals, lodging and gifts. The player was dismissed from the team.

Although the N.C.A.A. regarded the infractions as major and ''neither isolated nor inadvertent,'' the penalties handed down by the six members of its Division I committee on infractions were little more than a slap on the wrist. Notre Dame was placed on probation for two years and will lose one of its 85 football scholarships each year. The governing body did not impose restrictions on television appearances or bowl games. Notre Dame earns an estimated $8 million to $9 million a year from a television package with NBC, and in most years it earns a seven-figure payout from a bowl game.

Jack H. Friedenthal, a law professor at George Washington University and the chairman of the infractions committee, said: ''The penalty has to fit the crime, and although you find that a violation is major, there are different levels, obviously. These are not unusual penalties for this level of major infraction.''

Cont'd ...

ND.edu

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]The Kim Dunbar case[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]The first set of events considered in the case involved gifts given to football players by a Notre Dame booster, Kim Dunbar, between 1993 and 1998.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Dunbar was convicted of embezzling from her former employer $1.4 million, much of which she used to purchase lavish gifts and trips for various football players.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]"The violations were major because of the length of time over which they occurred," the committee report said, "The extravagant nature of gifts and benefits that were provided to the football student-athletes, the competitive advantage gained by the University in as much as the university continued to use student-athletes who were later declared ineligible, and the fact the violations were neither isolated nor inadvertent."[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]A complaint filed in superior court in South Bend by Dunbar's former employer, Jerry Dominiack, seeks repayment for the money or gifts received by the players from Dunbar, according to ESPN news services. The complaint lists eight players, including Jarvis Edison, whose gifts were permissible because he has a personal relationship and child with Dunbar.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]The penalties partly spawns reports that an assistant coach learned in 1996 that Dunbar had paid for a trip to Las Vegas for herself, Edison, another player and his girlfriend.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]The coach said he did not notify the NCAA because he believed the gifts were acceptable because of the romantic involvement between Dunbar and Edison, according to the NCAA report.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Cont'd ...
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[NateG]

Thanks. BB

 

[knapplc]

I haven't had the time to do a ton of research here at work, but has ND had any infractions due to improper benefits or other forms of cheating? I have a guy here at work acting as if NoD hasn't had issues like that.

Check out THIS SITE.

Looks like they were on probation in the 90s.

 

[ochre]

well. Lou Holtz did coach there...

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

well. Lou Holtsssshhhh did coach there...

fify

 

[Jaxbuck]

Thanks. BB

and don't forget Holtsch mysteriously walked away from a lifetime contract at the end of all that.

A lifetime contract.

Obviously the rumors were that it was part of a deal to keep the damage to a minimum.

 

[Saw31]

...a female booster who was giving some of the players impermissible benefits, sexual and otherwise.

Catholic girls start much too late...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJBoHa3GArA"]YouTube - ‪Billy Joel - Only The Good Die Young‬‏[/ame]


I was raised Catholic so I'm allowed to piss off Catholics! :p

 

[NateG]

and don't forget Holtsch mysteriously walked away from a lifetime contract at the end of all that.

A lifetime contract.

Obviously the rumors were that it was part of a deal to keep the damage to a minimum.

After I read all the responses and links I decided to look at Wikipedia for Lou. What a surprise.... I did see the part about a lifetime contract and then also read something very interesting (able to use as a rebuttal to the dick here at work) "Following an investigation in 1999, the NCAA placed Notre Dame on two-years probation for extra benefits provided by a representative of the university to football players and one instance of academic fraud. The NCAA found that Holtz and members of his staff learned of the violations but failed to make appropriate inquiry or to take prompt action, finding Holtz's efforts "inadequate."

Sound anything like what happened here NoD fan???

After which I read that he stated he wanted to leave "in the best interest of the team, it was the right thing to do"

 

[knapplc]

After I read all the responses and links I decided to look at Wikipedia for Lou. What a surprise.... I did see the part about a lifetime contract and then also read something very interesting (able to use as a rebuttal to the dick here at work) "Following an investigation in 1999, the NCAA placed Notre Dame on two-years probation for extra benefits provided by a representative of the university to football players and one instance of academic fraud. The NCAA found that Holtz and members of his staff learned of the violations but failed to make appropriate inquiry or to take prompt action, finding Holtz's efforts "inadequate."

Sound anything like what happened here NoD fan???

After which I read that he stated he wanted to leave "in the best interest of the team, it was the right thing to do"

You guys just had your trouble at the wrong time. The NCAA has been a joke for decades and now they're trying to "get tough."

We had violations at Nebraska in the 90s, which I'm sure you guys are well aware of, that weren't scrutinized like what you're going through. It was a different era back then.

 

[ulukinatme]

After I read all the responses and links I decided to look at Wikipedia for Lou. What a surprise.... I did see the part about a lifetime contract and then also read something very interesting (able to use as a rebuttal to the dick here at work) "Following an investigation in 1999, the NCAA placed Notre Dame on two-years probation for extra benefits provided by a representative of the university to football players and one instance of academic fraud. The NCAA found that Holtz and members of his staff learned of the violations but failed to make appropriate inquiry or to take prompt action, finding Holtz's efforts "inadequate."

Sound anything like what happened here NoD fan???

After which I read that he stated he wanted to leave "in the best interest of the team, it was the right thing to do"

I don't think the Kim Dubar fiasco was knowledge until after Lou left the university. If I recall Dunbar's employer found out about the embezzelment in '98 or '99, it became public knowledge then and the NCAA investigation came down in '99. Lou was in charge while it was going on, so he's as guilty as the next coach, but in the end I think the punishment should still reside with the students. Tressel shouldn't have taken the fall, just as Stoops didn't take the fall for the benefits Bomar received while a QB at Oklahoma.

Notre Dame definitely got away with less sanctions than other schools have received for similar scenario, however part of that may be because they self report the violation and the Infractions Committee was split on whether Dunbar was defined as a Booster. In '95 she paid $25 to be a part of the QB Club, which was a group of fans that met for a lunch before games and got to hear speeches from coaches and former players. It came down to the Infractions Committee overseer's vote, and he voted against Dunbar and Notre Dame. The club was disbanded when the allegations came up.

Some of the coaching staff definitely knew something fishy was going on with Dunbar, but they let it go on for some time because she was known to have romantic ties with at least a few of the players. She even had a child with one of the players that she was tied to. Scandalous! The whole situation was bad from top to bottom.

While Lou was in charge while the Dunbar situation was going on, I don't think that was the main reason he eventually resigned at the end of the '96 season. For one, the situation wouldn't become public knowledge until years later, and this was before the NCAA got strict with infractions. Due to the circumstances and the NCAA leniency, ND only ended up losing one scholarship each year for two years. Years after he left, Lou cited that he felt it was his time to go, that he wasn't wanted anymore by the administration. At the time of his resignation the feel good story was that he didn't want to surpass Rockne's number of wins, which was just fairy tale of course. I think that ultimately thats why he hung it up, he felt like the administration didn't have faith in his coaching ability. The team was slowly declining since the '93 season and there was a growing sentiment that Lou's time was done. Little would they know that the team would continue to decline years after his departure. While he may have known about the Dunbar situation in '96, I can't see him stepping down for that reason primarily considering the [Mark May] didn't hit the fan until '99.

 

[Jaxbuck]

While Lou was in charge while the Dunbar situation was going on, I don't think that was the main reason he eventually resigned at the end of the '96 season. For one, the situation wouldn't become public knowledge until years later, and this was before the NCAA got strict with infractions. Due to the circumstances and the NCAA leniency, ND only ended up losing one scholarship each year for two years. Years after he left, Lou cited that he felt it was his time to go, that he wasn't wanted anymore by the administration. At the time of his resignation the feel good story was that he didn't want to surpass Rockne's number of wins, which was just fairy tale of course. I think that ultimately thats why he hung it up, he felt like the administration didn't have faith in his coaching ability. The team was slowly declining since the '93 season and there was a growing sentiment that Lou's time was done. Little would they know that the team would continue to decline years after his departure. While he may have known about the Dunbar situation in '96, I can't see him stepping down for that reason primarily considering the [Mark May] didn't hit the fan until '99.

I remember talk at that time saying Lou looked around and realized 1/2 his '88 team wouldn't be able to get into school with the new admins policies in place and that kind of helped things along as well.

No idea if true or not but it seems plausible.

 

[ulukinatme]

I remember talk at that time saying Lou looked around and realized 1/2 his '88 team wouldn't be able to get into school with the new admins policies in place and that kind of helped things along as well.

No idea if true or not but it seems plausible.

I've heard the same, but I don't buy into the academic garbage holding them back anymore. Can't honestly say if Lou came to that conclusion and was quoted with that, or apologists were trying to broaden the range of athletes. Stanford was able to rise up and be dominant again, and their academic standards are similar. The schedules aren't too different this coming year either. Whether it's a true statement or not (Regarding 1/2 the 88' team not being eligible by today's standards), I don't think that should prevent the team from achieving success.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I haven't had the time to do a ton of research here at work, but has ND had any infractions due to improper benefits or other forms of cheating? I have a guy here at work acting as if NoD hasn't had issues like that.

Is there any other kind of domer?

Dec 17, 1999 University of Notre Dame Extra Benefits provided to football student-athletes in the form of gifts and trips by a representative of the instituion's athletics interests; an university employee provided extra benefits to student-athletes; a student-athlete paid a university employee to prepare an academic paper.

Aug 21, 1971 University of Notre Dame Improper administration of financial aid.

Jan 8, 1954 University of Notre Dame Improper tryouts.

Institution: University of Notre Dame
Date: December 17, 1999

Violation Sumary: Extra Benefits provided to football student-athletes in the form of gifts and trips by a representative of the instituion's athletics interests; an university employee provided extra benefits to student-athletes; a student-athlete paid a university employee to prepare an academic paper.

Penalty Summary: Public reprimand and censure; two years of probation; financial aid awards in football reduced by one during each academic year of 2000-01 and 2001-02; annual reports regarding compliance.


Reports


Public Report


Involved Sports:
Football

Involved Penalties:
Television: 0 yrs Reduction in Financial Aid: Yes
Postseason: 0 yrs Recruiting: No
Probation: 2 yrs Show Cause Action: No
Vacation of Record: No

References

Legislative References
Div. Number Title
I 16.02.3 Extra Benefit.
I 16.11.2.1 General Rule.
I 16.2.2.1 Sale of Complimentary Admissions.
I 16.12.1 Incidental to Participation.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

I've heard the same, but I don't buy into the academic garbage holding them back anymore. Can't honestly say if Lou came to that conclusion and was quoted with that, or apologists were trying to broaden the range of athletes. Stanford was able to rise up and be dominant again, and their academic standards are similar. The schedules aren't too different this coming year either. Whether it's a true statement or not (Regarding 1/2 the 88' team not being eligible by today's standards), I don't think that should prevent the team from achieving success.

i agree. i think notre dame using academics as an excuse is, by and large, a bunch of malarkey. my guess is that the players who find the field are marginally smarter (if they're smarter at all) than the average football player at a bunch of other major programs that have performed better than notre dame has over the last x amount of seasons. i wouldn't be surprised if the players who don't -- more appropriately: won't ever -- find the field are the ones who skew the average. in regards to the final point, i think it applies to ohio state and many others schools, too.

consider:

link

 

[bassbuckeye07]

i agree. i think notre dame using academics as an excuse is, by and large, a bunch of malarkey. my guess is that the players who find the field are marginally smarter (if they're smarter at all) than the average football player at a bunch of other major programs that have performed better than notre dame has over the last x amount of seasons. i wouldn't be surprised if the players who don't -- more appropriately: won't ever -- find the field are the ones who skew the average. in regards to the final point, i think it applies to ohio state and many others schools, too.

consider:

link

haha at one SEC school on the list