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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

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When I count our rivalries, I count Michigan, USC, and Michigan State as our primaries, I can't put either one of those ahead of the other for various reasons. USC probably has a slight edge, but it's tough considering the Michigan/Michigan State rivalries go back so far, the history involved, and the heat between the teams.

Boston College is up there too after the various poor performances since the '93 game, but they're more of a thorn in our side than a heated rival. Purdue is listed as a rival, but tbh even in the last decade they haven't played us very well or gotten fired up when we've played, and it's been a bad decade for us. Navy is listed as a rival as well, but until the last 5 or 6 years the series hasn't really been interesting. Miami is not a rival, although the games did produce some big hype as "Catholics vs. Convicts" in the 80s.

Theres various teams like Northwestern that we used to play fairly frequently, and they're probably listing Northwestern as renewed rivalry because of that history and the close proximity of the two schools, but in all fairness I can barely remember the last time both schools played. I think I was in Junior High. Aside from our primary rivals and maybe BC, I wouldn't consider any of the other teams we play as really a rival.

This was the wiki I pulled the info from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football_rivalries

Interesting thing that they listed the Nebraska series in there. They played way back in the day, and then had a series from 2000-01. The 2000 game was something else, Nebraska came to South Bend as #1. Notre Dame's QB Arnaz Battle was dueling Eric Crouch with a sprained wrist. Came down to overtime, Bob Davies sat on the ball in regulation rather than trying to take a shot for the win. Crouch ended up sealing the win, but one hell of a game to attend. The Husker fans were some of the coolest visitors I've seen on campus.
 
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The Spring game is being broadcast on Versus tomorrow I think at 2pm est. It's supposed to be on UND.com as well. The two starting QBs from last year, Crist and Rees, won't get a majority of the reps as Kelly said he wants to see what the other two can do. Andrew Hendrix and Everett Golson will get about 75% of the reps as they're both the prototypical Spread QBs. They will also not have red jersies on as they'll be live and able to be hit. RBs will be sparse for this game though as they only have 3 on scholarship until the other Freshmen arrive and the 3rd string guy is out. Manti Teo also will be out at LB, although he practiced most of this week. I don't think there are any other major absenses aside from Floyd.
 
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ulukinatme;1907245; said:
Congrats
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A rivalry doesn't depend upon only the amount of times and/or the recency you've played. As beard-boy pointed out, we've played NW over 70 times (74, to be exact)...we're 33-2 against them over the last 35 games, so although we play them about 8 or evey 10 years they are hardly one of our rivals.
 
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I'm just quoting the Wiki here, as I've mentioned I only count USC, Michigan, and MSU as rivals for us. We haven't played Northwestern in over 15 years, and to be honest I don't even remember any heat between the two teams when they did play.
 
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ulukinatme;1907557; said:
I'm just quoting the Wiki here, as I've mentioned I only count USC, Michigan, and MSU as rivals for us. We haven't played Northwestern in over 15 years, and to be honest I don't even remember any heat between the two teams when they did play.
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This is not directed at your claim of these three "rivalry" games.

Fans claim a growing number of rivalries as their competitiveness declines. Notre Dame football has been out of things so long now, it's not surprising that Notre Dame fans claim just about anyone they play. How else will they have a chance to win a rivalry game?
 
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Steve19;1907561; said:
This is not directed at your claim of these three "rivalry" games.

Fans claim a growing number of rivalries as their competitiveness declines. Notre Dame football has been out of things so long now, it's not surprising that Notre Dame fans claim just about anyone they play. How else will they have a chance to win a rivalry game?
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I agree. ND has been out of things over almost two decades at this point, and if you forget the late 80s to early 90s run you have to go back even farther when ND was a powerhouse. It makes me grimmace when I hear teams like Tulsa come in, beat us in ND stadium (Which will rarely get loud and intimadating these days for most games), and then claim "This was the biggest win in our school's history." Their coach said it last fall after the game, others have said the same. Its not like James Madison toppling Virginia Tech. Maybe if things build up over the coming years ND will have some respect again, but it's got a lot of embarrassments to erase first.
 
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They had "old weather information"? That sounds like a lame excuse to avoid blaming Kelly and/or Swarbrick (the AD). Even using the 'old' information of gusts up to 30 mph, the equipment's manufacturer had stated that the lifts aren't safe in those conditions. So their "unwriitten' policy of using that lift up to 35 mph was improper, and that's on the AD, who should have had an official policy in writing that was within the specifications of the manufacturer.

They're saying it was nobody's fault, that no one had the responsibility to make the decision on whether the lift should have been used. Well it's the responsibility of the AD and/or the head coach to make sure that somebody was in the position of having to make a proper decision. So if it's not the fault of anybody on their staff, then it's the fault of one or both of them.

I hope the family got a nice settlement in order to not sue or bad-mouth ND. Nothing will bring their son back, but that's true whether they get cash from the University or not.
 
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seehearspeakandadmitnoevil1.jpg
colobuck79;1908419; said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6382097

What a surprise. Nobody at fault in kid's death. :shake:
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ulukinatme;1907557; said:
I'm just quoting the Wiki here, as I've mentioned I only count USC, Michigan, and MSU as rivals for us. We haven't played Northwestern in over 15 years, and to be honest I don't even remember any heat between the two teams when they did play.
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Wouldn't you say USC is your #1 rival? I know Michigan and ND haven't played much throughout history but it is intense. The 80s and the early 90s is when Michigan/ND had some epic battles. I know some fans on my side that hate ND more than our other rivals.

Just from the outside looking in....I never considered Purdue/ND a big rivalry. I compare it to the Michigan/Minnesota rivalry. We play for the little brown jug but it just doesn't have the same feeling when we play ND, State, or OSU.
 
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The CFN guys weigh in.

Fiutak

More than anything else, what Notre Dame continues to spin with its public relations machine is really, really sad. That nothing happened after the unforgivably unconscionable handling of the Elizabeth Seeberg situation was bad enough, and now the school, a supposed paragon of virtue, has taken another turn into the abyss.

Remember, this is a university that didn?t hire George O?Leary because he fudged a little on a r?sum?. Many who thought Notre Dame was being too snooty and harsh conceded a level of respect for the O'Leary decision, but now, after two students are dead, the same university is lawyering up and trying to do whatever it can to ? forgive the poor choice of references ? weather the storm.

For the love of God, literally, Notre Dame, what are you doing?

No one - NO ONE - is getting fired? No one - NO ONE - is getting punished or suspended? No one - NO ONE - is accepting any real responsibility or acknowledging that the football program is such a monster that it?s able to steamroll over two tragedies as if Seeberg and Sullivan were merely losses to Navy and Tulsa?!

No, don?t you dare suggest that Notre Dame president, Reverend John Jenkins, is taking any real responsibility for Sullivan?s death simply by suggesting he is. To cut through the spin control, what he?s doing is dispersing the blame by saying that ?many individuals and departments? were to blame for the tragedy.

Fine, so then why is Jenkins and everyone who admits to wrongdoing still employed by the University of Notre Dame? If there isn?t just ?one shoulder to blame,? as an independent reviewer wrote in his report, then why isn?t there any punishment for all the shoulders?

The Indiana Occupational Health and Safety Administration found that ?Notre Dame did not establish and maintain conditions of work that were reasonably safe for its employees that were free from recognized hazards that caused or were likely to cause death or serious injury.? Translated by Jenkins, ?it?s a collective responsibility.? Translated by head coach Brian Kelly, everyone at Notre Dame is ?collectively focused on making sure something like this never happens again.?

DECLAN SULLIVAN IS DEAD. YOU DO NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE AT THIS.

According to the IOSHA report, the National Weather Service had issued a wind advisory for the day as ?the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrated that the university made a decision to utilize its scissor lifts in known adverse weather conditions.? The conditions weren?t ?unremarkable,? as athletic director Jack Swarbrick unfortunately quipped, and yet Notre Dame is trying to weasel its way out of applying any real blame by suggesting it was a university-wide breakdown. No, someone checked the weather at 1:54 instead of at 3:45, when practice started and winds were gusting at close to 40 miles per hour, and no one checked it at 4:53, or asked for it to be checked, just a minute before Sullivan?s accident.

And no, simply feeling bad about what happened isn?t enough. How dare you, Notre Dame? How dare you say how sorry and upset you are in one breath, with Jenkins quipping that you were going to ?take the actions necessary to protect the ongoing safety of (your) students and staff,? and then a month later have the temerity, the unmitigated gall, to appeal the record-setting $77,500 in fines levied on you for your negligence?

And where?s the outrage from more of the Notre Dame alumni and fans?

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Cirminiello

A young man is dead, his life cut short by tragedy. A family will never be the same. That?s the chapter and verse of the Declan Sullivan story, yet it?s hard not to feel a little perplexed and agitated by Notre Dame?s findings about last October?s fatal accident. A football videographer is dead, and yet no individual is responsible for it? How exactly does that happen?

The suggestion from the university?s internal report is that no person, not head coach Brian Kelly nor any of the coaches or administrators, intentionally put Sullivan in harm?s way. Okay, but did anyone in a position of leadership do anything on that windy day to protect him before he climbed up a hydraulic lift? If the answer is no, then there must be some culpability for his accident.

I?m not looking for a pound of flesh at this stage of the process. What?s the point? The sad fact is that it won?t bring the student back to his university, his friends, or his family. That said, someone needs to be held responsible and at least publicly cited for a brazen lack of common sense.

No, it can?t bring one life back, but it might help prevent another one from being senselessly damaged. If I have a hollow feeling after reading the school?s report following a six-month investigation, I can?t imagine what the Sullivans are thinking on this day.
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Zemek

Fine - no student worker or position coach - or even Kelly himself - should have been punished just for the sake of punishment. It?s not right or fair to punish 'somebody' just to create the appearance of action or satisfy the larger public-relations outcry which followed Sullivan?s death. That doesn't do anyone any good, and it doesn't reflect an ability to learn from mistakes in this or any similar instance. Notre Dame's report does not reflect a rash statement, and it does not manifest a severe overreaction to the situation. Fair enough.

Here's where the school and president John Jenkins fall short, however: If no underlings or football-only people should have been expected to know exactly what to do with the hydraulic lifts, there's one person who damn well needed to be on top of the case, but wasn't: Jack Swarbrick.

It's an athletic director's job description to direct, to oversee, to supervise, the operations of an athletic program. It?s Swarbrick who was supposed to know the ins and outs of hydraulic lifts and implement policies for the safe use of such machines. It?s Swarbrick who should have had guidelines at the ready. It?s Swarbrick who should have created clear lines of communication and prevented Kelly from having anything to do with such a decision. Swarbrick failed on all counts, and counter to Father Jenkins' noble-sounding and partially-true words in the Notre Dame report, there WAS one person who bears responsibility for Sullivan?s death: the director of the athletic department and, by extension, the football program, which is - of course - the biggest athletic endeavor Notre Dame will ever undertake.

The fact that Swarbrick is not unemployed today is just one more manifestation of the disease ravaging America, to this nation?s great detriment: As on Wall Street (as Notre Dame plays according to that free market gospel), bad behavior and performance do not get punished. It?s ironic that during Holy Week, Notre Dame ? while reasonably and justifiably retaining underlings and football-only people ? wouldn?t figure out how to punish itself, thereby placing political expediency over the right thing to do.

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