WaitingforKickoff
Legend
It seems to me that the money trail is pretty evident in this case. It's easy to smear a player, a coach, an university. It's not easy to smear a signature.
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- Thread starter CleveBucks
- Start date
Oh8ch;607309; said:
That is a possibility, the NCAA and/or Pac-10 could make them forfeit games and take away the Pac-10 championship.
But imagine if USC had won the BCS Championship this year, and the NCAA ends up making them forfeit games Bush played in last season, but has no power to take away the BCS Championship, since it's not bestowed by the NCAA. What a mess that could have been!
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
Another minor question.
An Agent can be a booster right??
So this guy being at practices, taking in games wearing Reggie's jerseys classifes him as a booster???
As for the mood on SC it seems that calm folks seem that this is rehased news and people are just trying to smeer SC. Much like alot of us felt when Espin' tryed to run with the MoC story.
I think this one could take a while to sort out....
An Agent can be a booster right??
So this guy being at practices, taking in games wearing Reggie's jerseys classifes him as a booster???
As for the mood on SC it seems that calm folks seem that this is rehased news and people are just trying to smeer SC. Much like alot of us felt when Espin' tryed to run with the MoC story.
I think this one could take a while to sort out....
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You are considered a booster if you:
? are or have been a member of any organization promoting The University Athletics Departments.
? have ever made a donation to the Athletics Departments, to a men?s or women?s athletic program, or to any booster organization.
? Have ever assisted in evaluating or recruiting prospects.
? Have ever helped to arrange or have provided employment to enrolled student-athletes, prospects, or a prospect?s parents or relatives.
? Have promoted the University?s athletics programs.
Good Call. The arranging employment clause might bite them on this one.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
Yeah that first post, that guy is posting in every single thread!!!!
I still like how they say the NCAA is the villian b/c they don't pay these kids. They give them a freakin' full schollie.:!
I still like how they say the NCAA is the villian b/c they don't pay these kids. They give them a freakin' full schollie.:!
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scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
Dwayne Jarret: Dude, offer to throw a few bucks at charity. It worked for me.
Reggie Bush: Good idea. I'll just forward my next $200,000 paycheck to an orphanage. I can live off my signing bonus for years.
Dwayne Jarret: Really? Hook a brotha up?
Reggie Bush: Good idea. I'll just forward my next $200,000 paycheck to an orphanage. I can live off my signing bonus for years.
Dwayne Jarret: Really? Hook a brotha up?
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
Oh8ch;607146; said:
By and large, USC fans are in a perpetual state of denial when it comes to the multiple problems with their program. It seems that their answer to every allegation is, "No story here." We'll see.
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Mandel's article on the latest Bush allegations is worth reading.
si.com
Tainted legacy
IfYahoo! report is true, Bush, USC will pay hefty price
Posted: Friday September 15, 2006 12:45PM; Updated: Friday September 15, 2006 2:05PM
For three years, we watched with awe and appreciation as Reggie Bush electrified college football like few before him. We got to know, through countless interviews and press conferences, a seemingly humble, pleasant kid from San Diego whose introverted demeanor contrasted that of his Hollywood party-boy teammate, Matt Leinart. And we couldn't help but admire the way coach Pete Carroll built USC into a dominant program while maintaining a uniquely fun and relaxed atmosphere unparalleled among its counterparts.
All of it is now irreparably tainted.
The Yahoo! Sports report that Heisman Trophy winner Bush and his family accepted money and benefits worth more than $100,000 while he was still a player at USC is a stunning revelation that could lead to Bush being stripped of his Heisman, the Trojans' 2005 season being erased from the record books and the NCAA hitting the program with major sanctions.
What makes the Yahoo! article so damning is the extent of the documented evidence the Web site says it has obtained. For instance, in March 2005 Bush allegedly signed a $623.63 bill to the credit card of wannabe marketer Michael Michaels for a stay at the Venetian hotel in Las Vegas. Michaels himself signed another document authorizing the hotel to accept the charges. Based on NCAA case history, this transgression alone would be enough to render Bush ineligible last season if NCAA investigators obtain the same documents.
But Yahoo! has much more. An employee of Bush's marketing representative, Mike Ornstein, allegedly paid for plane tickets and a limousine ride for Bush's family to a USC-Cal game. The Web site has a copy of the credit-card bill. Ornstein, either oblivious or defiant of NCAA bylaws, defended the arrangement as a "loan." That's illegal. So, too, was negotiating endorsement deals on Bush's behalf before he signed with Ornstein -- another of Ornstein's admissions.
And that's just the stuff that's been proven or admitted to. Other allegations in the article, attributed to various sources, include Michaels' short-lived company, New Era Sports, buying Bush a car and paying to deck it out; Ornstein giving regular cash payouts to Bush's parents and brother; and the family living rent-free in a posh San Diego house owned by Michaels (originally alleged last spring).
The NCAA and Pac-10 are investigating the alleged extra benefits Bush might have received. Both organizations will now be under significant pressure to corroborate Yahoo!'s allegations, particularly the ones involving documented examples of Bush jeopardizing his eligibility. While the NCAA cannot strip USC of any titles because it doesn't administer college football's postseason, it can levy any number of other sanctions, such as a bowl ban and scholarship reductions.
When Yahoo!'s original report about Bush's family and Michaels' house was published last April, it was easy for Trojans coach Pete Carroll to downplay the connection to his former star. "Think back to when you were in school," Carroll told the Los Angeles Times last spring. "Did you know how your parents paid the mortgage?" Only the most blindly loyal USC fan, however, could read this most recent report and still consider the Saints rookie to have been an innocent bystander.
And while Carroll has insisted on numerous occasions that he and his staff educate their players as best they can about the various rules regarding agents, according to Yahoo!, New Era representatives were allowed to visit the Trojans' locker room and Ornstein and other agents watched games from the sideline. While it's impossible to police all contact between players and agents, it's sure possible to police your own locker room and sideline. If investigators find proof that coaches or staff members at USC failed to exercise "institutional control" in these areas, it would significantly increase the possibility of repercussions against the school.
Bush is a dazzling talent and as dangerous a playmaker as we've seen. At USC he was known for staying after practice to sign autographs for children. Since arriving in New Orleans, he has engaged in multiple philanthropic ventures in support of his new town, still reeling from Hurricane Katrina.
Now his reputation is taking a serious blow. On one hand, it appears that Bush and his family were manipulated by some insidious people. Ornstein, his marketing rep, was once convicted of trying to defraud the NFL. But Bush is a bright kid. He had to know exactly what he was doing when he signed that hotel bill. Surely he knew how his family was able to ride in a limo.
Both of those things are against NCAA rules. And if the allegations are true, Bush and USC will pay dearly for it.
si.com
Tainted legacy
IfYahoo! report is true, Bush, USC will pay hefty price
Posted: Friday September 15, 2006 12:45PM; Updated: Friday September 15, 2006 2:05PM
For three years, we watched with awe and appreciation as Reggie Bush electrified college football like few before him. We got to know, through countless interviews and press conferences, a seemingly humble, pleasant kid from San Diego whose introverted demeanor contrasted that of his Hollywood party-boy teammate, Matt Leinart. And we couldn't help but admire the way coach Pete Carroll built USC into a dominant program while maintaining a uniquely fun and relaxed atmosphere unparalleled among its counterparts.
All of it is now irreparably tainted.
The Yahoo! Sports report that Heisman Trophy winner Bush and his family accepted money and benefits worth more than $100,000 while he was still a player at USC is a stunning revelation that could lead to Bush being stripped of his Heisman, the Trojans' 2005 season being erased from the record books and the NCAA hitting the program with major sanctions.
What makes the Yahoo! article so damning is the extent of the documented evidence the Web site says it has obtained. For instance, in March 2005 Bush allegedly signed a $623.63 bill to the credit card of wannabe marketer Michael Michaels for a stay at the Venetian hotel in Las Vegas. Michaels himself signed another document authorizing the hotel to accept the charges. Based on NCAA case history, this transgression alone would be enough to render Bush ineligible last season if NCAA investigators obtain the same documents.
But Yahoo! has much more. An employee of Bush's marketing representative, Mike Ornstein, allegedly paid for plane tickets and a limousine ride for Bush's family to a USC-Cal game. The Web site has a copy of the credit-card bill. Ornstein, either oblivious or defiant of NCAA bylaws, defended the arrangement as a "loan." That's illegal. So, too, was negotiating endorsement deals on Bush's behalf before he signed with Ornstein -- another of Ornstein's admissions.
And that's just the stuff that's been proven or admitted to. Other allegations in the article, attributed to various sources, include Michaels' short-lived company, New Era Sports, buying Bush a car and paying to deck it out; Ornstein giving regular cash payouts to Bush's parents and brother; and the family living rent-free in a posh San Diego house owned by Michaels (originally alleged last spring).
The NCAA and Pac-10 are investigating the alleged extra benefits Bush might have received. Both organizations will now be under significant pressure to corroborate Yahoo!'s allegations, particularly the ones involving documented examples of Bush jeopardizing his eligibility. While the NCAA cannot strip USC of any titles because it doesn't administer college football's postseason, it can levy any number of other sanctions, such as a bowl ban and scholarship reductions.
When Yahoo!'s original report about Bush's family and Michaels' house was published last April, it was easy for Trojans coach Pete Carroll to downplay the connection to his former star. "Think back to when you were in school," Carroll told the Los Angeles Times last spring. "Did you know how your parents paid the mortgage?" Only the most blindly loyal USC fan, however, could read this most recent report and still consider the Saints rookie to have been an innocent bystander.
And while Carroll has insisted on numerous occasions that he and his staff educate their players as best they can about the various rules regarding agents, according to Yahoo!, New Era representatives were allowed to visit the Trojans' locker room and Ornstein and other agents watched games from the sideline. While it's impossible to police all contact between players and agents, it's sure possible to police your own locker room and sideline. If investigators find proof that coaches or staff members at USC failed to exercise "institutional control" in these areas, it would significantly increase the possibility of repercussions against the school.
Bush is a dazzling talent and as dangerous a playmaker as we've seen. At USC he was known for staying after practice to sign autographs for children. Since arriving in New Orleans, he has engaged in multiple philanthropic ventures in support of his new town, still reeling from Hurricane Katrina.
Now his reputation is taking a serious blow. On one hand, it appears that Bush and his family were manipulated by some insidious people. Ornstein, his marketing rep, was once convicted of trying to defraud the NFL. But Bush is a bright kid. He had to know exactly what he was doing when he signed that hotel bill. Surely he knew how his family was able to ride in a limo.
Both of those things are against NCAA rules. And if the allegations are true, Bush and USC will pay dearly for it.
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Dodd's view talks about the BCS and the NCAA's limited abilities in such situations.
sportsline
Strip Reggie, USC? It's not that simple
BCS commissioners will wait for the completion of ongoing investigations before even considering vacating Southern California's 2004 BCS title.
Former USC running back Reggie Bush accepted thousands of dollars in benefits from agents while playing for the Trojans, according to an Internet report. In question is whether Bush competed while ineligible and whether
USC knew or should have known about the extra benefits.
Bush has left school and is not subject to NCAA penalties and cannot be compelled to testify by the association. Both the NCAA and Pac-10 are investigating.
BCS coordinator Mike Slive intimated in April that BCS commissioners might one day have to consider the validity of USC's title. BCS administrator Bill Hancock confirmed to SportsLine.com on Friday that issue was formally discussed during meetings five months ago in Phoenix.
"They did talk about it," Hancock said. "They're going to wait and see if the NCAA or the conference takes action. If that would affect the BCS, they're going to discuss it."
The commissioners are treading lightly because the issues are complex. The commissioners don't want to be perceived as too powerful -- stepping on the toes of the NCAA -- or powerless -- ignoring cheating in their sport. However, a source close to the situation said the commissioners would not hesitate to act if the situation is heinous enough.
The NCAA is essentially powerless to take a national championship away from a school. Division I-A football is the only NCAA sport in which the association does not sponsor a championship. As far as the Division I-A postseason is concerned, the NCAA essentially certifies bowls and sets qualification standards.
Before the BCS, the championships were "mythical," or awarded by wire services.
The "responsibility" in this case would fall on the BCS commissioners to address the validity of a title. The BCS was formed in 1998 and is essentially a series of agreements between the major conferences, major bowls and television contracts binding them together.
Whatever information uncovered by the NCAA and Pac-10 investigations might not be serious enough for the commissioners to step in. If the commissioners do step in does Oklahoma, which lost 55-19 in the 2005 Orange Bowl, then automatically assume the national championship that year?
No one affiliated with the BCS is ready to answer that question.
Another uncomfortable situation: If a BCS title was taken away, the commissioners would essentially be penalizing one of their own (Pac-10).
Currently, the Pac-10 is the only conference with an enforcement arm that investigates its member schools. Other conferences defer solely to the NCAA.
Student-athletes are considered having turned professional if they take money or other benefits from agents. While the Internet report is extensive, the NCAA cannot use that information solely to penalize a school. It must develop its own information. That might be difficult with Bush, his family and marketing agent Mike Ornstein unlikely to cooperate.
The NCAA could find USC lacked institutional control in monitoring its program. SportsLine.com reported earlier this year of the football staff's attempts to keep agents away from their players.
Offensive line coach Pat Ruel angrily cleared Heritage Hall of agents and runners in January on the day Bush declared for the NFL. Carroll warned agents about contacting his players during a pro day for NFL coaches and pro personnel.
Ornstein has denied any wrongdoing. Bush downplayed the situation when interviewed after Friday's practice with the Saints. USC issued a statement Friday saying it was cooperating with investigations. The Heisman Trust Foundation, which might consider taking Bush's 2005 trophy, had no comment.
sportsline
Strip Reggie, USC? It's not that simple
BCS commissioners will wait for the completion of ongoing investigations before even considering vacating Southern California's 2004 BCS title.
Former USC running back Reggie Bush accepted thousands of dollars in benefits from agents while playing for the Trojans, according to an Internet report. In question is whether Bush competed while ineligible and whether
USC knew or should have known about the extra benefits.
Bush has left school and is not subject to NCAA penalties and cannot be compelled to testify by the association. Both the NCAA and Pac-10 are investigating.
BCS coordinator Mike Slive intimated in April that BCS commissioners might one day have to consider the validity of USC's title. BCS administrator Bill Hancock confirmed to SportsLine.com on Friday that issue was formally discussed during meetings five months ago in Phoenix.
"They did talk about it," Hancock said. "They're going to wait and see if the NCAA or the conference takes action. If that would affect the BCS, they're going to discuss it."
The commissioners are treading lightly because the issues are complex. The commissioners don't want to be perceived as too powerful -- stepping on the toes of the NCAA -- or powerless -- ignoring cheating in their sport. However, a source close to the situation said the commissioners would not hesitate to act if the situation is heinous enough.
The NCAA is essentially powerless to take a national championship away from a school. Division I-A football is the only NCAA sport in which the association does not sponsor a championship. As far as the Division I-A postseason is concerned, the NCAA essentially certifies bowls and sets qualification standards.
Before the BCS, the championships were "mythical," or awarded by wire services.
The "responsibility" in this case would fall on the BCS commissioners to address the validity of a title. The BCS was formed in 1998 and is essentially a series of agreements between the major conferences, major bowls and television contracts binding them together.
Whatever information uncovered by the NCAA and Pac-10 investigations might not be serious enough for the commissioners to step in. If the commissioners do step in does Oklahoma, which lost 55-19 in the 2005 Orange Bowl, then automatically assume the national championship that year?
No one affiliated with the BCS is ready to answer that question.
Another uncomfortable situation: If a BCS title was taken away, the commissioners would essentially be penalizing one of their own (Pac-10).
Currently, the Pac-10 is the only conference with an enforcement arm that investigates its member schools. Other conferences defer solely to the NCAA.
Student-athletes are considered having turned professional if they take money or other benefits from agents. While the Internet report is extensive, the NCAA cannot use that information solely to penalize a school. It must develop its own information. That might be difficult with Bush, his family and marketing agent Mike Ornstein unlikely to cooperate.
The NCAA could find USC lacked institutional control in monitoring its program. SportsLine.com reported earlier this year of the football staff's attempts to keep agents away from their players.
Offensive line coach Pat Ruel angrily cleared Heritage Hall of agents and runners in January on the day Bush declared for the NFL. Carroll warned agents about contacting his players during a pro day for NFL coaches and pro personnel.
Ornstein has denied any wrongdoing. Bush downplayed the situation when interviewed after Friday's practice with the Saints. USC issued a statement Friday saying it was cooperating with investigations. The Heisman Trust Foundation, which might consider taking Bush's 2005 trophy, had no comment.
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Heard about this on the radio this AM on my way to a seminar. Mike and Mike show. What struck me was how Mike and Mike were insistent that "You can't blame USC for this, if it's as "bad" as Yahoo! says it is." "There's no way a program or a coach can micromanage everything one of their player's may be doing" type stuff. "Strip Bush of the Heisman? Bah. We all know he was the best player in 05." "Strip them of the title? Doesn't change the fact that we all know they won it." 
Not that I want USC to endure the firestorm OSU recieved by "the network" (not that I'd lose sleep if they did get the treatment) I just found it remarkable that the same network that was so quick to crucify OSU for 500 bucks, doesn't want to blame the institution for $100,000 (not even includnig the benefits Jarrett recieved. (and a nice plane ride
)). I guess we can take from this 1 of 2 things, at least. 1 - ESPN "learned it's lesson" as it were in "making the story" or, 2- they actually "had it in" for OSU.
Funny that the USC boards seem to think it's "west coast bias."
Not that I want USC to endure the firestorm OSU recieved by "the network" (not that I'd lose sleep if they did get the treatment) I just found it remarkable that the same network that was so quick to crucify OSU for 500 bucks, doesn't want to blame the institution for $100,000 (not even includnig the benefits Jarrett recieved. (and a nice plane ride
)). I guess we can take from this 1 of 2 things, at least. 1 - ESPN "learned it's lesson" as it were in "making the story" or, 2- they actually "had it in" for OSU. Funny that the USC boards seem to think it's "west coast bias."
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