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Mike Leach (HC Mississippi State, a National Treasure, R.I.P.)

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But, they're not his players anymore, are they? They're left behind with an interim coach who "put his arm around" Adam the Kid, and they've gotta try to survive there. On the flip side, ESPIN aired the same statement from one TT player over & over. If there were many player statements heavily against Leach, I missed them.

No flawless angels on any side here, but the one who's gonna have the most lasting negative effect, imo, is James. Leach gets to keep his Big 12 Coach of the Year award. What title is Adam James carrying away? None that you'd want to repeat in Sunday School, anyway.

BTW, it was refreshing this morning on their ESPIN show, to hear Mike Golic's take on the situation. He said he asked his two kids on the ND roster, and they both said if it was them, they wouldn't want him to do anything. They'd handle it for themselves. (novel concept) If it came to Mike handling it, he would have had a meeting privately. He also said that any players he knew, given the choice between 5 AM work-out-til-you-puke discipline or go-stand-in-the-shed, would have been setting record speeds sprinting for the shed & gleefully happy to do it.
 
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CalvinistBuck;1634453; said:
Winning typically covers a multitude of sins. But in the case of Leach, there were issues clearly bigger than the Adam James affair. Evidence in print media suggests university officials were looking for a reason to get rid of Leach. And, it appears that Leach was stubborn as well. In the article that grad posted, a reasonable assertion is made that "where Leach deserves to be criticized is for giving the school any kind of opening to whack him...unless he saw it coming all along and didn't really care."

The observation that has compelled me to post an opinion is that many college football fans are expressing their support of Leach without considering the opinions of the people closest to the situation. Most coaches who are doing a good job of coaching young men continue to have the respect of their players even when a mistake in judgment is made. (Longtime fans of Buckeye football know this well.) In this instance, Leach does not appear to have widespread support from his players. Frankly, I am surprised that players are not lining up to support their coach.

I am not saying that some quotes by a few disgruntled players is enough evidence to dismiss a coach's ability to properly coach, but it does raise questions. I suppose we will learn more as this case unfolds. But until then, reserving judgment is sensible.
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Can't speak for anyone else on BP, but for myself, personally, I'm placing my support behind Leach under the presumption that while he may be a bit eccentric, he's not a moron. He does have a law degree. Leach has ten years service as the HC at TT, a year at Oklahoma installing the offense when Stoops took over that gig, plus his time running Hal Mumme's Air Raid at Kentucky when Tim Couch was setting records -- so 15 years in a high profile position at three different BCS schools. Not one single current or former player has come forward to say Leach made them do Junction Boys shit for showing up injured too.

ESPN's treatment of this incident would suggest Leach ordered James into a utility shed because he had a concussion, which is obviously ridiculous.

Whether Leach instructed a GA to accompany James to a big building, a small building, standing, sitting, or whatever, I think it's pretty clear that at no point was James's health in danger. If it were, there were plenty of people around who could have intervened and taken a stand. Now, I don't know how many interviews you've heard Leach give, but he tends to ramble and is clearly a smart-ass. For all I know maybe he did tell a GA to take James to an electrical closet and have him stand for 3 hours, just being a sarcastic SoB as he sometimes is. But from what I've seen/heard/read thus far, nobody actually enforced James stand in one room for 3 hours.

We have, after all, Adam James's own video of the horrific torture he was forced to endure. James had his cell phone. He was in an air conditioned building. There was an ice machine in the room. It was illuminated well enough for him to shoot video with his cell phone.

Sounds rough.
 
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BB73;1634466; said:
Last week, I suspected that the quotes from players were in response to leading questions from ESPN reporters trying hard to get some words that would make Leach look bad.

I believe that the team was instructed to not talk about the situation in the few days before the bowl, so I am definitely reserving judgment on how most of the players felt toward Leach.
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That's a reasonable assumption.

I was just surprised by the lack of support by players. I acknowledged that the quotes might not be representative. I just thought that reserving judgment might be the best course given the lack of support.
 
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I don't know. That's why I posed it as a question.
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Calvinist, have you read the content posted in this thread in Leach's favor, almost all of it ignored by ESPN? The scathing emails leaked from the TxTech administrators who were looking for a way to fire/release him before last year's contract extension? The numerous quotes exposing James' insubordination and refusal to listen to coaching, punishment and other coaching efforts?

If you're going by what ESPN reported on sportscenter & the Alamo Bowl, you're getting a very one-sided and shaped version of the story.
I was just surprised by the lack of support by players. I acknowledged that the quotes might not be representative. I just thought that reserving judgment might be the best course given the lack of support.
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There was plenty of support from past players, like Graham Harrell, his QB from last year.
 
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I think Leach's own sense of irony did him in here. He took "I'm sensitive to light and a priss" from the kid and said "fine, go stand in a dark room, but get off my practice field". If he'd just yanked the scholarship on the spot for insubordination, he'd have to endure the "you cut a kid for having a concussion" spin from the James family, but he would have a crowd of people who could corroborate that this kid was frequently mouthy, insubordinate, and put in half-assed efforts. If TT fired him after that, they've look like even bigger jackasses then they already do; Leach would likely still have his job, and no Adam/Craig James constantly trying to piss in his cheerios.

Sometimes, you can be too smart for your own good.
 
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Dryden;1634487; said:
Can't speak for anyone else on BP, but for myself, personally, I'm placing my support behind Leach under the presumption that while he may be a bit eccentric, he's not a moron. He does have a law degree. Leach has ten years service as the HC at TT, a year at Oklahoma installing the offense when Stoops took over that gig, plus his time running Hal Mumme's Air Raid at Kentucky when Tim Couch was setting records -- so 15 years in a high profile position at three different BCS schools. Not one single current or former player has come forward to say Leach made them do Junction Boys [censored] for showing up injured too.

ESPN's treatment of this incident would suggest Leach ordered James into a utility shed because he had a concussion, which is obviously ridiculous.

Whether Leach instructed a GA to accompany James to a big building, a small building, standing, sitting, or whatever, I think it's pretty clear that at no point was James's health in danger. If it were, there were plenty of people around who could have intervened and taken a stand. Now, I don't know how many interviews you've heard Leach give, but he tends to ramble and is clearly a smart-ass. For all I know maybe he did tell a GA to take James to an electrical closet and have him stand for 3 hours, just being a sarcastic SoB as he sometimes is. But from what I've seen/heard/read thus far, nobody actually enforced James stand in one room for 3 hours.

We have, after all, Adam James's own video of the horrific torture he was forced to endure. James had his cell phone. He was in an air conditioned building. There was an ice machine in the room. It was illuminated well enough for him to shoot video with his cell phone.

Sounds rough.
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I agree that the Adam James incident alone doesn't seem like reasonable grounds for dismissal.

I am only making the assumption that there may be other reasons why the administration wants Leach gone. That was the impression I got from one of the student-athlete quotes.

In any event, having scanned the emails that grad linked, there appears to be great bitterness generated during the previous contract negotiations.

I didn't imagine that making a statement like reserving judgment until there is more evidence was so controversial.
 
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jwinslow;1634515; said:
Calvinist, have you read the content posted in this thread in Leach's favor, almost all of it ignored by ESPN? The scathing emails leaked from the TxTech administrators who were looking for a way to fire/release him before last year's contract extension? The numerous quotes exposing James' insubordination and refusal to listen to coaching, punishment and other coaching efforts?
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Scathing, perhaps. Unfortunately, million-dollar contract negotiations can be brutal. Leach wanted Stoops/Brown money and the administration didn't buy it. How big is TT's stadium and what kind of revenue do they produce? I'm not trying to defend the TT admin. Rather, I simply wondered (out loud) if we were going to learn that Leach is a douchebag and brought this on himself.

jwinslow;1634515; said:
If you're going by what ESPN reported on sportscenter & the Alamo Bowl, you're getting a very one-sided and shaped version of the story.There was plenty of support from past players, like Graham Harrell, his QB from last year.
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Mostly internet sources (not a big ESPN fan).

Actually, I'm not that interested in the Adam James angle. I'm more interested in the real reason Leach got fired.
 
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Thanks for the responses, Calvinist. I'm not convinced that Leach is blameless in this longstanding dispute, moreso that this thing stinks to high heaven. The character assassination in the media, the immediate dismissal, the very tame punishment (albeit unfriendly)b eing sold as wicked mistreatment, etc.

They wanted him out and thought they had a beautiful loophole with a "concussion punishment" especially with ESPN & daddy in their corner. The sad thing is half of america probably doesn't even understand there's another side to this story.
 
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jwinslow;1634538; said:
The character assassination in the media, the immediate dismissal, the very tame punishment (albeit unfriendly) being sold as wicked mistreatment, etc.
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This is certainly truth that we don't have to wait on the evidence for.

jwinslow;1634538; said:
They wanted him out and thought they had a beautiful loophole with a "concussion punishment" especially with ESPN & daddy in their corner. The sad thing is half of america probably doesn't even understand there's another side to this story.
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Indeed. I was simply looking for all the sides.
 
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CentralMOBuck;1634892; said:
Found this gem on another site from a Bama website.

Things tougher than Adam James. - Topic Powered by Social Strata
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:slappy:

trevin-n19226498_37774705_2328.jpg
 
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