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Michael Irvin (official thread)

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The case can be made either way for Irvin imo. I don't like the scumbag personally so I choose not to give a fuck.

I know this might piss some off but the only HOF I care about and want to see hold a certain standard is the MLB HOF.

I don't know if its just the idea that they let too many people in the NFL HOF or what but it just seems almost trivial to me compared to baseball's. I guess baseball just has such a longer history that it seems more hallowed. I mean if your in the same group with Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth it just seems more impressive than Bart Starr or Paul Hornug.

I don't know...just my .02 on HOF's.
 
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SATXBuck said:
Michael Irvin didn't make the HOF cut this year.
Click to expand...

Here's who did:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Aikman leads big Hall of Fame class; Irvin left out</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>By BARRY WILNER, AP Football Writer
February 4, 2006

DETROIT (AP) -- Troy Aikman made it into the Pro Football Hall of Fame's biggest class in years. The guy he threw to -- Michael Irvin -- will have to wait once again. Reggie White, Warren Moon, Harry Carson, John Madden and Rayfield Wright also were elected Saturday. Not since 2001 had the maximum number of candidates been chosen.
Emmitt Smith, who joined with Aikman and Irvin to win three Super Bowls for the Dallas Cowboys, had campaigned vigorously for his two former teammates. But Irvin, plagued by off-the-field troubles in recent years, was left out in his second try.

"I wouldn't want to get into why he didn't make it in," Aikman said. "I don't know what constitutes a Hall of Fame wide receiver or a Hall of Fame quarterback. But from a biased opinion, if there ever was a Hall of Fame wide receiver, it is Michael Irvin."
The late White, the NFL career sacks leader when he retired in 2000, and star quarterbacks Aikman and Moon made it in their first year of eligibility.
Moon became the first black quarterback in the Hall.
"To be the first African-American quarterback into the Hall of Fame, all African-American QBs who played before me should share in this," Moon said. "I don't want to make this a racial thing, but I think it is significant. It shows that we have arrived at the pinnacle of our sport."
Madden and Wright were seniors committee candidates and Carson was in his seventh year as a finalist.
The class of 2006 and will be inducted in Canton, Ohio, on the weekend of Aug. 5-6.
Smith, the NFL's career rushing leader and eligible for election in four years, pounded his finger on a table Friday as he argued for Irvin.
"This is the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the Life Hall of Fame. His stats are what they are. They are not going to change," Smith said.
But the Hall panel of 39 media members was not swayed.
The Hall's voting bylaws preclude consideration of non-football issues. Irvin's problems include pleading no contest to felony cocaine possession in exchange for four years of deferred probation, a $10,000 fine and dismissal of misdemeanor marijuana possession charges.
Aikman, the first overall pick in the 1989 draft, guided the Cowboys back to prominence after some lean seasons. He led Dallas to three Super Bowl titles in four seasons -- the Cowboys lost in the NFC championship game the other year -- and was among the most accurate passers in the league.
Aikman won 90 games in the 1990s, the most by any quarterback in any decade.
White, who died Dec. 26, 2004, was known as the "Minister of Defense" -- he was an ordained Baptist minister.
"I wish he was here, that is the only regret I have," said his wife, Sara. "But you know what, he is here. He is."
White had 198 sacks when he left the NFL after 15 seasons with Philadelphia, Green Bay and Carolina. One of the first major free-agent signings in 1993, his choice of Green Bay helped turn around that storied franchise. The Packers won the 1997 Super Bowl and lost it in 1998.
White began his career in the USFL, but by the time he was finished in the NFL, he'd gone to 13 straight Pro Bowls and been chosen for the league's 75th anniversary team.
Moon's transient career took him from the CFL, where he won five straight Grey Cups, to Houston as a free agent in 1984. He also played for Minnesota, Seattle and Kansas City and completed his career with 51,061 yards of total offense and 313 touchdowns.
There was some thought his lack of a Super Bowl ring would hurt his chances. It didn't.
Carson, a nine-time Pro Bowl linebacker who retired from the New York Giants in 1988, has been a frequent critic of the process, even saying he wanted off future ballots. This was his third time in the final six.
Wright was a lynchpin of the Cowboys' staunch offensive line of the 1970s after coach Tom Landry moved him from tight end to tackle.
"I told him I had never played the position and he said, "You'll make a great tackle. Now you just have to gain some weight,"' Wright recalled.
Wright made the final six as a regular candidate in 2004. He was put on seniors committee ballot this year in part because of his strong showing in previous votes.
Madden, best known for his television announcing and video game, has the winning percentage of any NFL coach with 100 victories (.759). He coached the Oakland Raiders for 10 years and won the 1977 Super Bowl.
"I'm not going to make a lot of sense and I don't care," Madden said after getting the news. "It comes from my heart. I am humbled and grateful and thankful. I just got to sit down. Thank you, thank you, thank you."
Running back Thurman Thomas, the 1991 league MVP and the catalyst of Buffalo's four straight AFC championships in the early 1990s, fell short in his first try.
Updated on Saturday, Feb 4, 2006 3:02 pm EST​
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-halloffame&prov=ap&type=lgns
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
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I like that Warren Moon got in. This would make him the first African-American QB in the Hall of Fame. (he had already entered the CFL Hall of Fame five years ago).

LINK

DETROIT – As if it isn’t enough that the Seattle Seahawks are in the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history, one of the great figures in the history of Seattle football was named to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Saturday. Former Seahawks and University of Washington quarterback Warren Moon was one of six players inducted into the Hall of Fame Saturday in a vote by the Pro Football Writers.
Moon was joined by former Dallas Cowboys Troy Aikman and Rayfield Wright, late defensive end Reggie White, linebacker Harry Carson and former coach John Madden.
The selection of Moon was particularly momentous. Although he didn’t intend to make race relevant in his selection to the Hall, there’s no getting around it. This was a ground-breaking announcement.
“To be the first African-American quarterback into the Hall of Fame, all African-American quarterbacks who played before me should share in this," Moon said. "I don't want to make this a racial thing, but I think it is significant. It shows that we have arrived at the pinnacle of our sport."
And it isn’t as if he didn’t earn it. Moon came out of the University of Washington in 1978 following a stunning upset of Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Nonetheless, the 6-2, 220-pound Moon was shunned by the NFL and headed to the Canadian Football League, where he played for the Edmonton Eskimos, leading them to five consecutive Grey Cups.
With so many mediocre quarterbacks on shaky teams, the NFL finally woke up. In 1984 he was signed by the Houston Oilers. Seventeen seasons later, he had thrown for an amazing 51,061 yards and 313 touchdowns – including being voted into nine Pro Bowls by his peers. He played 11 years for the Oilers, followed by three with the Minnesota Vikings, two with the Seahawks and his final two seasons were in Kansas City.
Just how important this is to so many of the African-Americans in the NFL, from coaches to players, is obvious. Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy came out of Minnesota as a quarterback in 1978 as well, and didn’t get drafted. He did play three seasons in the NFL with the Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers as a safety, but became the youngest assistant coach in the NFL the next season with the Steelers.
Dungy took the classic route for black college quarterbacks into the secondary, while others became wide receivers. That didn’t change until the past decade or so.
“Actually, Warren and I are contemporary’s and neither one of us got drafted,” Dungy said. “Warren took a little different path; he went to Canada and played, whereas I changed positions. It’s nice to see that a guy with Warren Moon’s ability nowadays doesn’t have to go to Canada or doesn’t have to prove himself in some other way. From that standpoint we have made progress. To see Warren get in the Hall of Fame is another step; to see an African-American quarterback in the Hall of Fame would be fantastic.”
And even a young quarterback like Atlanta’s Michael Vick, who came out of Virginia Tech in 2001, understands what Moon meant to the game and the future of black quarterbacks in general. Moon shattered the theory that African-American quarterbacks get by on sheer athleticism. Unlike the mercurial speed of Vick, he was actually slow of foot, and didn’t tower over the offensive lines, either. He just had a superior arm that was both accurate and strong, and a great sense of reading defenses.
“Warren was just a passer,” Vick said. “He was very accurate with the ball. He made plays and Houston was one of my teams growing up. They had a great receiving core. I still remember all the receivers, Wesley Slaughter, Ernst Givens and all those guys. I just loved watching him play. I loved seeing him play every Sunday. He was very accurate with the football, one of the most accurate in the game.
“When I was at Virginia Tech we had a chance to talk, he encouraged me to keep doing what I was doing. He told me one day, some positive things will happen. Every African-American quarterback I have seen play in this league, even though there are very few, always gave me some hope that I would have the opportunity. All I ever wished for was a chance to play. I never thought I was going to be a first-round pick, I never knew I was going to have blazing speed and a big-time arm. I never knew any of that, I just wanted a shot. I just wanted to prove to people that I could play in the league.”
Moon made the difference. Now the radio analyst alongside Steve Raible on Seahawks radio broadcasts, what he proved is the essence of change in America. Fortunately, the Pro Football Writers didn’t use his lack of a Super Bowl ring as an excuse. It just proved progress has been made.
“It’s a great honor,” Moon said.
For all of us.
Click to expand...
 
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There are several receivers, like Herman Moore, and Andre Reed, who had many seasons comparable to Irvin. And WRs have less to do with winning Super Bowls than QBs do, and I don't think Super Bowls should be enough to put QBs in either. All that said, there used to be a pretty good lid on the number of receivers in the HOF, but once the voters made the worst decision of all-time and put Lynn Swann in, the floodgates have opened, because there are at least 25 guys who should have gone in before him. Unfortunately, some of those guys like Monk are eligible and still aren't in yet.

I imagine Irvin will get in, which I guess he should, but I don't consider him in the top 10 receivers of all-time. But better than Lynn Swann? Without a doubt.
 
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tibor75 said:
Art Monk = Palmeiro

Stars, not HOFers. Never of them were ever important enough to their teams and neither put any fear into their opponents.

Irvin will probably get in eventually just because of the super bowls. Sure that's not fair, but that's the way it works. Look how many Yankees and Steelers are in their respective HOF and don't deserve it.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity tibs, which Steelers, besides the worst player in the HOF Lynn Swann, do you think didn't deserve to get in?
 
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Found this on JJHuddle...should be a good discussion:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Talking to ESPN Radio's Dan Patrick, Michael Irvin said that Tony Romo's stellar play might be attributable, not to talent and hard work, but to black heritage. Irvin suggested there might have been "some brother down in that line somewhere." Since Romo is almost as white as I am, it is possible that Irvin was joking. But Patrick apparently didn't think so and asked Irvin if black heritage was mandatory for athletic prowess. "That's not the only way, but it's certainly one way," Irvin replied. "If great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandma pulled one of them studs up out of the barn ... `Come on in here for a second,' you know ... " Joke or not, by my count, that's offensive to blacks, whites, grandmothers and humanity in general. And if it was a joke, it's as unfunny as that Michael Richards' tirade. At this point, Irvin and ESPN have been silent on the issue though one hopes that Irvin will issue an apology on Sunday's NFL pre-game show. And let's hope it's not one of those phony "if I offended anyone" apologies. But the networks who hire people like Irvin are the ones who should be apologizing, and not just ESPN.[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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It's funny how some people will let it go when Irvin mentions how being black will make you a good athlete, but if a white guy went out and said anything similar about white people being naturally smarter that black people (or whatever arguement he might want to force: Rush Limbaugh, are you reading?), all hell would be set loose, and the guy would probaby not only be fired but probably have to volunteer for a NAACP-charity for the rest of his life.
 
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jimmy-the-greek.jpg
 
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