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Lance Armstrong

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Brutus1;2241276; said:
Yea, Dude, that was my point. Who ever thought he won 7 TDF titles
cleanly were/are crazy.

His cheating did enable him to get alot of money directed to cancer research.
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You and I know it along with most other "sport" people. But the soccer moms of the world are shocked...LOL.

As far as the money thing, the LA saga it is a hell of a story and easy to sell. Poor kid from a single parent home from Texas gains success early, has it taken away by cancer and he overcomes the removal of his balls to win the TDF 7 times. It's Shakespearean/Hollywood stuff.
 
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AuTX Buckeye;2241230; said:
I know alot of that got reported... but my understanding the only evidence they have is a ton of his teammates who got busted for doping themselves then USADA offered them a lighter sentence to testify against Armstrong...

Again not claiming he's innocent BUT if those guys knew the method of how he was beating the test for YEARs ... don'tcha think they woulda known how to do it too and never gotten caught?
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I'll admit I was not following every detail of this very closely and as a result probably giving him every benefit of the doubt up until about a year ago. I was repeating the same things Lance was saying in the media - "never failed a test, no evidence, natural ability to clear lactic acid that other riders weren't born with, etc..." Then it became clear that the sport was nearly 100% infiltrated with doping of some sort during Lance's reign. So basically Lance dominated the doping era in his sport just as McGuire, Sosa and Bonds dominated the same type of doping environment in baseball. The odds of being able to dominate an era of such high drug use while remaining clean are astronomical and maybe impossible. It's just common sense at that point to conclude there was doping by Lance and his team. Then you throw in all the other evidence such as the financials, which cannot really be faked, the audit trail and direct testimony and the case is insurmountable.

Yeah, some of the guys that turned on him have motive but as the report yesterday indicated there are others that had nothing to gain from cooperating because they will never race again nor stand to profit in any way from testifying.
 
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6a00d83451b18a69e2014e88a226d5970d-500wi


:paranoid:
 
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Delaware Buck;2241179; said:
Was driving to a client yesterday and NPR had full hour with two folks that investigated this and read the USADA report in full including a doctor from the UK. What struck me was the level to which Armstrong went to in order to cheat. It was highly organized with both high/ low tech methods to avoid testing positive. One of the tactics listed in the report was that they would stall the tester and pump Lance full of saline to dilute any trace of banned substance. They were also getting tipped off for out of season tests for which the cycling federation has yet to respond to. There was another occasion where he tested positive for synthetic EPO markers and was able to meet directly with the lab president and basically talk his way out of being banned by offering to donate 120k to something the lab was involved with.

I think we all accept that Lance competed in a dirty era for cycling. What I was not aware of was how US Postal and Discovery were pretty much operating a full blown doping operation and not really hiding a lot of financial transactions that go along with that sort of thing. It wasn't just Armstrong but the entire team for almost 8 years running. Team members, trainers, doctors, entourage, etc... The team masseuse was the lead drug runner apparently. That complete team effort is what separated Armstrong's cheating from other peers that cheated according to the folks on the show. They said that most of Lance's peers that were also cheating were doing it as one offs and not nearly as organized as Lance.
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And one wonders why, with all this shit being done to his body, Armstrong ended up having to be forcibly separated from one of his balls.
 
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TooTallMenardo;2241363; said:
Tell me that's a personal picture.... And that you can steal that, and give it to me! How could he sign off on that advertisement?! :rofl:
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Not sure but I think he was given an equity stake in FRS in exchange for his endorsement (I know he was given part of Honey Stinger). It was taken at a bike shop in the past week or so I believe. They will probably start showing up on EBAY soon...:biggrin:

Thanks Mili, I try and not mix INFINIT and the Buckeyes too much. Too weird of a juxtaposition.
 
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OH10;2241383; said:
He's to blame for what happened to him. I have no sympathy for cheaters; I don't care what kind of competitive pressure was brought to bear.
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That's fine, and I respect that opinion. I just think it's bullshit that they've completely made Armstrong the scapegoat in this situation, despite the adversity he's faced, and all of the great things (Livestrong and Sheryl Crow to name two :biggrin:) that he was a part of.
 
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OH10;2241383; said:
He's to blame for what happened to him. I have no sympathy for cheaters; I don't care what kind of competitive pressure was brought to bear.
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Is it cheating when virtually every single rider with a chance is doing it?

To me the definition of cheating is gaining an unfair advantage over your fellow competitors.
 
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Did he take PED's? - Yep
Did he cover up taking PED's? - Yep
Did he encourage team members to do the same? - Yep
Was his competition also taking PED's? - Yep
Did anyone have a gun to Lance's head forcing him to take PED's? - Nope
Did he then act indignant and threaten to sue anyone that accused him of taking PED's? - Yep, multiple times
Is he still in denial? - Absolutely
Has his cancer awareness program been beneficial and inspiration to folks dealing with that disease? - Absolutely
Could he still have become an inspiration force for cancer recovery by not ever winning the TDF? - Sure but not to the extent he did. The complete domination was probably addicting and certainly added to the lore
Will he ever come clean on taking PED's? - Unlikely. I see a Pete Rose kind of ending for Lance. Though Pete not in the HOF is criminal, IMHO
 
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Folanator;2241428; said:
Is it cheating when virtually every single rider with a chance is doing it?

To me the definition of cheating is gaining an unfair advantage over your fellow competitors.
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I'm sure there are cyclists out there who chose not to do it that couldn't get qualified because of it.

To me, I don't care if 29 out of 30 students cheat on a test. They're all cheaters and should be punished as such, not rewarded just because they followed the herd.
 
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OH10;2241896; said:
I'm sure there are cyclists out there who chose not to do it that couldn't get qualified because of it.

To me, I don't care if 29 out of 30 students cheat on a test. They're all cheaters and should be punished as such, not rewarded just because they followed the herd.
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True. But if the competitors who want to bring him down were all doping too then LA as a fellow doper STILL whipped them 7 times in a row. They all cheated so they were at the same level and he was still dominate.
 
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