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Lance Armstrong

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TooTallMenardo;2241120; said:
It's really a shame the witch hunt brought on to Lance Armstrong considering 98% of cyclists use PED's.
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This.

and

Also find this article interesting from Miguel Indurain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20048066


"I am a bit surprised. It is a bit strange that this has only been based on testimonies,'' Indurain said on Radio Marca.

"The rules said one thing and now it seems they have changed.''
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Its interesting that some of his foreign teammates say he didn't dope but the american ones "lined up" to testify against him... Was he clean probably not but who else was..
 
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Heard an interesting tidbit on Mike & Mike this morning. They said that the seven titles stripped from LA were not awarded to anyone else because 20 of the cyclists that finished in the top three for those 7 years have been found guilty of doping at some point.
 
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DiamondBuck;2241137; said:
Heard an interesting tidbit on Mike & Mike this morning. They said that the seven titles stripped from LA were not awarded to anyone else because 20 of the cyclists that finished in the top three for those 7 years have been found guilty of doping at some point.
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:lol: I'm sure if they dug deeper, they'd find (hate to throw the same number out there but) 98% were positive tests. And let's face it, who the fuck cares about the guy that finished dead last.
 
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Was driving to a client yesterday and NPR had full hour with two folks that investigated this and read the USADA report in full including a doctor from the UK. What struck me was the level to which Armstrong went to in order to cheat. It was highly organized with both high/ low tech methods to avoid testing positive. One of the tactics listed in the report was that they would stall the tester and pump Lance full of saline to dilute any trace of banned substance. They were also getting tipped off for out of season tests for which the cycling federation has yet to respond to. There was another occasion where he tested positive for synthetic EPO markers and was able to meet directly with the lab president and basically talk his way out of being banned by offering to donate 120k to something the lab was involved with.

I think we all accept that Lance competed in a dirty era for cycling. What I was not aware of was how US Postal and Discovery were pretty much operating a full blown doping operation and not really hiding a lot of financial transactions that go along with that sort of thing. It wasn't just Armstrong but the entire team for almost 8 years running. Team members, trainers, doctors, entourage, etc... The team masseuse was the lead drug runner apparently. That complete team effort is what separated Armstrong's cheating from other peers that cheated according to the folks on the show. They said that most of Lance's peers that were also cheating were doing it as one offs and not nearly as organized as Lance.
 
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Delaware Buck;2241179; said:
Was driving to a client yesterday and NPR had full hour with two folks that investigated this and read the USADA report in full including a doctor from the UK. What struck me was the level to which Armstrong went to in order to cheat. It was highly organized with both high/ low tech methods to avoid testing positive. One of the tactics listed in the report was that they would stall the tester and pump Lance full of saline to dilute any trace of banned substance. They were also getting tipped off for out of season tests for which the cycling federation has yet to respond to. There was another occasion where he tested positive for synthetic EPO markers and was able to meet directly with the lab president and basically talk his way out of being banned by offering to donate 120k to something the lab was involved with.

I think we all accept that Lance competed in a dirty era for cycling. What I was not aware of was how US Postal and Discovery were pretty much operating a full blown doping operation and not really hiding a lot of financial transactions that go along with that sort of thing. It wasn't just Armstrong but the entire team for almost 8 years running. Team members, trainers, doctors, entourage, etc... The team masseuse was the lead drug runner apparently. That complete team effort is what separated Armstrong's cheating from other peers that cheated according to the folks on the show. They said that most of Lance's peers that were also cheating were doing it as one offs and not nearly as organized as Lance.
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I know alot of that got reported... but my understanding the only evidence they have is a ton of his teammates who got busted for doping themselves then USADA offered them a lighter sentence to testify against Armstrong...

Again not claiming he's innocent BUT if those guys knew the method of how he was beating the test for YEARs ... don'tcha think they woulda known how to do it too and never gotten caught?
 
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AuTX Buckeye;2241230; said:
I know alot of that got reported... but my understanding the only evidence they have is a ton of his teammates who got busted for doping themselves then USADA offered them a lighter sentence to testify against Armstrong...

Again not claiming he's innocent BUT if those guys knew the method of how he was beating the test for YEARs ... don'tcha think they woulda known how to do it too and never gotten caught?
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Anyone who thinks that LA was clean is delusional. The only thing that I am surprised by, is people that are surprised about all of this.

LA was the best rider and best doper. It was an exact science. He did what he needed to do to beat the Euros at their own game.

Drugs have always been a part of bike racing, it was part of the culture. So to say that he cheated is too simplistic an answer. He played the game and did what he needed to do to win.

I know personally many of the players involved in this situation so I have quite a bit of insight from the inside.

It's ugly, but we are trying to look at "cheating" through the eyes of today's standards. IMO it isn't cheating if you are just keeping up with the Jones's. He just refined it and was better than anyone else at manipulating pharmaceuticals to his and his teams advantage.

Make no mistake, if you were not on the "program" you have ZERO chance of being competitive in the Pro ranks at that time. NONE. You cannot race for 28 days 5-7 hours a day and recover, it's not humanly possible.

I know a ton of Professionals and many of them blame Lance for the way he conducted his business and wished he had raced clean. BUT, the one thing most of them agree on is that if the race could be 100% clean and free of drugs, Lance probably would have won 7 in a row.

This is not idol worship, I have no boner for Lance. He is an absolute fucking asshole as a person. But I did love it when he rode a bike, good lord he was good at it.
 
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Who really thought that he was ever clean ? I've always assumed that all the top riders in that era were on some type of ped. The thing that burned
Armstrong was that he was stupid enough to get the entire team involved and think that none of them would ever turn on him. Dumb ass.

You knew sooner or later, someone would tire of him winning all the time.He turned into a superstar and they're nothing. If you let them take turns winning, they're much less inclined to roll over because they have much more to lose.

C'mon Lance:think like a better cheater!!!
 
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Brutus1;2241246; said:
Who really thought that he was ever clean ? I've always assumed that all the top riders in that era were on some type of ped. The thing that burned
Armstrong was that he was stupid enough to get the entire team involved and think that none of them would ever turn on him. Dumb ass.

You knew sooner or later, someone would tire of him winning all the time.He turned into a superstar and they're nothing. If you let them take turns winning, they're much less inclined to roll over because they have much more to lose.

C'mon Lance:think like a better cheater!!!
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Dude they all were dirty. All the teams had a "program" back then. Do some research on Festina and Banesto. It was systemic in the 30's through 2009. Started with amphetamines, went to blood packing and evolved into PED's.

Many many people think that because LA has a foundation that works for cancer research he is a saint and a hero that should be adored. They cannot fathom that he "cheated" because he has done something good.

EDIT: The reason that he got the team involved is because cycling is a team sport.
You need about 2-3 Hincappie's to be able to produce 400 watts for hours on end to chase down breaks.
You need about 2-3 120lb climbers to be able to go to the front at the bottom of a 10 mile Mountain with 12-14% gradients and drop people off the back to give Lance the chance to ride away.
You need the entire team to be able to keep up with the top guys on the team time trial.
 
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