God I Hate Homeowner Associations....

[holybuckeye33]

Question for the board and especially the attorneys on here. I just found out from my daughter that the HOA has not placed a lien on the house. Probably because he has no proof and it wouldn't hold up in court. He sent a letter to our real estate management attorney's office just detailing what happened but no proof of a certified letter, no proof of a hearing, etc.
I asked my daughter since there is no lien then why don't they just close on the house. She states that the reaestate management attorney will not close because they "can't in good conscience knowing that $ may be owned to an outside agency."
I say close on the sale of the house and what recourse does the guy have without the lien? He can't put a lien on the house after the closing because the new owners didn't cause the dispute.

Our attorney is saying to pay the guy and then countersue him after the fact to get the money back....
I think that is BS and they should just close on the sale....

What do you attorneys think????

Let me preface this by saying the following is based upon the procedures in a state that is not North Carolina. I have no idea whether North Carolina is the same or different, so don't take this to the bank. Typically, a closing agent (in this case the real estate management attorney) does not represent the seller. Their job is to make sure that the seller conveys clear title to the property to the buyer (in this case your son's company) and to facilitate the transaction. Typically the seller is on their own to find their own counsel to prepare the deed and represent them in the transaction. There could be a duel representation agreement if both sides agree that there ultimately may be a conflict with the closing agent doing title work and issuing title insurance on behalf of the buyer while at the same time preparing the deed on behalf of the seller and agree to waive that conflict.

If I'm the closing agent on this transaction, there's no way that I'm closing and conveying title to the buyer knowing that this pending action is out there. I would ask for a letter from the HOA (not just the President) signed by at least 2 members of the board stating the violations set forth and the amount owed. I would then escrow that amount plus maybe 10-15% and close. This protects the new buyer in the event the HOA moves forward and does obtain a judgment for the amount claimed. If the HOA doesn't move forward with an action, your daughter and son-in-law should move forward with an action before the local magistrate (or NC equivalent if there is one) against the HOA. Once a determination is made either way then the closing company can release the escrowed funds to whomever they should be paid. No way in hell am I paying this money directly to this jackass and then hoping to get it back. As long as it's in escrow it's still technically your daughter's money, just subject to a potential claim by the HOA.

Unfortunately, I sincerely doubt you'll receive any personal judgment against the president for being a pain in the ass. Essentially you would have to show that your daughter suffered actual damages as a result of this cat (I just used cat here because my daughter has been asking me since I started typing this whether I need help typing cat). If your daughter wasn't selling to your son-in-laws company and a buyer walked away from a signed agreement of sale claiming your daughter couldn't convey clear title and she had to sell less to someone else, then you'd have actual damages and may be able to go after punitives also, but that would most likely need to be against the HOA and the jackass would probably be personally unaccountable to your daughter. Now the HOA may go after him for exceeding his authority and acting without authority, but that would be a different story.

 

[Wingate1217]

Update: My daughter went through he records and found an e-mail address for the HOA. She turned that over to the paralegal and they sent a message tot he board. A woman who in the e-mail says she does the books for the association knows about the situation as she was in the room when the Prez went on his profinity laced tirade a couple days back.
Through phone calls and other e-mail sent she states that she has gone though all coorespondance for the last 4 1/2 years that my daughter and her husband have lived in the neighborhood. No where she claims can she find anything regarding the incident and the fine that was imposed. Based off of that information and if nothing else changes they may be able to close according to the real estate management company. The only amount she says they owe is the quarterly dues from April-June, and then they would only owe from April to the present.
She also stated that the President is still going to assess "fines" whatever that means. Since he has no proof I see it hard for him to do so....
Our realtor from the Management company told my son-in-law teasingly , "I don't know what happened between you two (him and the Prez) but he sure has a hard-on for you...."
Well, after this thing is over (and I have either before hand given my advice that mirrors what others on the board have given, and thanks to all by the way) I am going to have a hard on for the President. Letters will be going out to various officials relating to this guy's actions throughout this incident.....I am just laying low now so I don't complicate things further.....and it probably one of the hardest things I have had to do because your inclination as a parent is to fix things....

 

[Wingate1217]

Update: Well finally my son in law's employer got involved and not just the real estate management company's attorney. The attorney for the utility company (who my son in law works for) called the Pres of the HOA today. He began by asking how was the neighborhood and how he liked his house. When the President said he liked the area and then asked why? The attorney: "because if you persist with this my client is going to own your house after I am done with you."
The closing is tomorrow......got to love an attorney with a sense of humor and a kick-ass attitude.....

 

[BUCKYLE]

Classic BKB move.

 

[BIATCHabutuka]

Update: Well finally my son in law's employer got involved and not just the real estate management company's attorney. The attorney for the utility company (who my son in law works for) called the Pres of the HOA today. He began by asking how was the neighborhood and how he liked his house. When the President said he liked the area and then asked why? The attorney: "because if you persist with this my client is going to own your house after I am done with you."
The closing is tomorrow......got to love an attorney with a sense of humor and a kick-ass attitude.....

Have your son in law pay that favor back by sending some flowers or candy to his secretary / staff. For services rendered and for future work benefits and it makes the entire staff feel good and remember who you are for future favors.

I used to send out boxes of candy to all the salesmen's staff that tried to sell me chemicals, but never the salesman himself. It paid for itself like a billion times over in future deals, competitive info, and favors.

 

[Saw31]

Update: Well finally my son in law's employer got involved and not just the real estate management company's attorney. The attorney for the utility company (who my son in law works for) called the Pres of the HOA today. He began by asking how was the neighborhood and how he liked his house. When the President said he liked the area and then asked why? The attorney: "because if you persist with this my client is going to own your house after I am done with you."
The closing is tomorrow......got to love an attorney with a sense of humor and a kick-ass attitude.....

Awesome. I picture him (lawyer) as Clint Eastwood with one of those cigars in his mouth saying "Dyin' ain't much of a livin'"...

 

[Muck]

Awesome. I picture him (lawyer) as Clint Eastwood with one of those cigars in his mouth saying "Dyin' ain't much of a livin'"...

I pictured him more like this:

 

[Mac]

Update: Well finally my son in law's employer got involved and not just the real estate management company's attorney. The attorney for the utility company (who my son in law works for) called the Pres of the HOA today. He began by asking how was the neighborhood and how he liked his house. When the President said he liked the area and then asked why? The attorney: "because if you persist with this my client is going to own your house after I am done with you."
The closing is tomorrow......got to love an attorney with a sense of humor and a kick-ass attitude.....

Glad to hear the closing is going forward

 

[Buckeneye]

"because if you persist with this my client is going to own your house after I am done with you."
.

Like a Baus...

 

[cincibuck]

I think the company lawyer is following a precedence set in 1307 and the sad demise of Edward the Second of England:

"The popular story states that the king was assassinated by having a red-hot poker thrust into his anus."

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

about a month ago, i began receiving emails from an hoa executive board in lagrange, ohio. apparently, they have the wrong email address for one of their board members, and the email address must be slightly different than mine. of course, they don't know that they're emailing the wrong dude. until now, i just deleted the emails after a pointless cursory reading.

that has changed.

received another flurry of emails last night. the latest email is about approval of a backyard pool for a new home. i wrestled with how "extreme" my response needed to be, but i settled on something a little more innocent to start. i simply responded that we needed to intervene if the plans are for an above-ground pool, but i would be okay either way if the pool had a slide.

waiting to hear back...

 

[Jaxbuck]

about a month ago, i began receiving emails from an hoa executive board in lagrange, ohio. apparently, they have the wrong email address for one of their board members, and the email address must be slightly different than mine. of course, they don't know that they're emailing the wrong dude. until now, i just deleted the emails after a pointless cursory reading.

that has changed.

received another flurry of emails last night. the latest email is about approval of a backyard pool for a new home. i wrestled with how "extreme" my response needed to be, but i settled on something a little more innocent to start. i simply responded that we needed to intervene if the plans are for an above-ground pool, but i would be okay either way if the pool had a slide.

waiting to hear back...

I would have asked for bathing suit pics of the people who intended to use it.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

I would have asked for bathing suit pics of the people who intended to use it.

yeah, i want to do "more," but i also don't want to be figured out so soon. i think my next email is going to be completely innocuous and professional... except for a passing comment about another male board member being handsome or impressively masculine. i want the next email to be awkward but also worded in such a way that won't lead anyone to approach me in real life.

 

[bigdog3300]

about a month ago, i began receiving emails from an hoa executive board in lagrange, ohio. apparently, they have the wrong email address for one of their board members, and the email address must be slightly different than mine. of course, they don't know that they're emailing the wrong dude. until now, i just deleted the emails after a pointless cursory reading.

that has changed.

received another flurry of emails last night. the latest email is about approval of a backyard pool for a new home. i wrestled with how "extreme" my response needed to be, but i settled on something a little more innocent to start. i simply responded that we needed to intervene if the plans are for an above-ground pool, but i would be okay either way if the pool had a slide.

waiting to hear back...

Being not too far from Lagrange, I can assure you it will be an above ground pool with semi-operating slide. The pool will have a maximum tooth occupancy limit of 11.5

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

Being not too far from Lagrange, I can assure you it will be an above ground pool with semi-operating slide. The pool will have a maximum tooth occupancy limit of 11.5

i looked up some of the home values in the subdivision. plenty are above $400k, so my guess is they won't take too kindly to the idea of an above-ground pool.