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Duke lax and accusations

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Bucky Katt said:
Eh, but when JoePa lets Michael Robinson play after being accused of assaulting a police officer, or when Bobby Bowden lets a guy play, even when he is accused of something, or when Bill Snyder lets Roberson playing even though he has been accused of sexual assault, it is because they ar eonly interested in winning football games. The university is in a lose/lose situation as far as PR from the situation.

If they don't suspend the season immediately, there is a huge uproar about over-privileged youth and underlying racism. Even if the players end up innocent, the media and protestors will still remember the lack of immediacy in handling the situation.

If they suspend the season immediately, they have people accusing them of disregarding the legal system and taking justice into their own hands. "So much for innocent 'til proven guilty." Etc, etc.

I'd rather they take a decisive action and stick to their guns rather than be wishy-washy about and let the media and protesters push the university into an action which may not be apropos for the situation. The university ought to be making a decision based on fact, not based upon the media's portrayal of fact and the demands of protesters who know ZERO about what actually happened in that house that night.

EDIT - Jeez. I missed all of page two before posting this. Sorry if I am reiterating some points.
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Ahhhh, the old Ready....FIRE...Aim method of punishment. Sounds like a well thought out and fair way of doing things. :wink2: That gives woman WAY too much power. If they don't like it than they can just say sexual harassment or whatever. Happens all the time.

Look, I just talked to a friend that I coach with who played Lax for OSU. He played for the Duke coach in Baltimore and said that he was a hard ass-ed disciplinarian that was forced to quit by the university. He also says that the "townies" will use any means necessary to get the "Dukies". The school knows that there is a huge economic and social divide between the school and the general population. They should have waited to get the full story. Forfeit all the games until all the facts are in. They should have not acted before they knew what really happened.
 
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Folanator said:
Common Thomps. No way. They did not embarrass the University, this apparent fabricated situation did. It sounds like the rape never took place.

But that does NOT excuse the school from giving the death sentence to a team and 45 kids for underage drinking and seeing a stripper? Shit Boone did worse than this by underage drinking and driving. Should he be gone for good?

Just because the school got embarrassed is not a reason to justify their actions because it does not appear the crime matches the punishment.
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Well I disagree that they did not embarrass the university. This has been a major story all over the country the last couple days. This incident has left an image of Duke as a university at odds with its community whose students (or at least student-athletes) are wild, racist drunks who write vulgar emails about killing strippers.

Of course it isn't national news, but the DNA evidence doesn't change the fact that it was brought to the nation's attention.

Does the crime match the punishment? Maybe not. But playing lax at Duke isn't an entitlement. It's a privilege.

Regardless of the status of the criminal case, playing lax games at this point is only asking for trouble. There is still a lot of turmoil in the community and in the student body. Scraping the season and starting over next year seems like a prudent course of action.

At the least, it gives time to examine the culture of the lax program. It looks like they didn't rape the stripper, but since 1999 almost a third of Duke lax players have been charged with some crime. One out of three for the past 7 years.
 
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Well I disagree that they did not embarrass the university. This has been a major story all over the country the last couple days. This incident has left an image of Duke as a university at odds with its community whose students (or at least student-athletes) are wild, racist drunks who write vulgar emails about killing strippers.
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Thomps, read my post above about the community Duke relationship. The townies HATE the Dukies. It has been at odds for years and the school knows this. Because they knew it was contentious is all the more reason to get all the facts.

Of course it isn't national news, but the DNA evidence doesn't change the fact that it was brought to the nation's attention.
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By a drunk stripper that appears to have lied.

Does the crime match the punishment? Maybe not. But playing lax at Duke isn't an entitlement. It's a privilege.
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True, but they should at least have the crime fit the punishment. This is the same argument that people make about Troy Smith. People said kick him off the team to make an example of him and let the rest of the world know that we are serious about dicipline. Zero tolerence. Well thank goodness JT did the right thing and made the punishment apprpriate. Look where Troy is today, he looks like he learned. That is what schools are for, to teach.

Regardless of the status of the criminal case, playing lax games at this point is only asking for trouble. There is still a lot of turmoil in the community and in the student body. Scraping the season and starting over next year seems like a prudent course of action.
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The comminity already hates Duke.

At the least, it gives time to examine the culture of the lax program. It looks like they didn't rape the stripper, but since 1999 almost a third of Duke lax players have been charged with some crime. One out of three for the past 7 years.
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I saw a lot of public drunkenness, fighting and urinating in public. Sounds like my entire school career. They aren't doing any felonies that I saw. Alot of drunk boys being boys.
 
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Folanator said:
Thomps, read my post above about the community Duke relationship. The townies HATE the Dukies. It has been at odds for years and the school knows this. Because they knew it was contentious is all the more reason to get all the facts.
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The point is now the whole nation knows about it, and a lot of people probably side with the townies given the behavior of the lax team. That is what I mean by embarrassment and shame brought on the university.



Folanator said:
By a drunk stripper that appears to have lied.
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A drunk stripper which they hired to come to their house and perform.



Folanator said:
True, but they should at least have the crime fit the punishment. This is the same argument that people make about Troy Smith. People said kick him off the team to make an example of him and let the rest of the world know that we are serious about dicipline. Zero tolerence. Well thank goodness JT did the right thing and made the punishment apprpriate. Look where Troy is today, he looks like he learned. That is what schools are for, to teach.
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Consider other motives beside punishment. When one in every three lax players is getting charged with a crime, it's clear that the culture of the team needs to be investigated and dealt with. There is also the interest in eliminating potential opportunities for conflict (like a lax game) until things cool down.



Folanator said:
The comminity already hates Duke.
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Yes, and there is more likely to be an incident now than next season.



Folanator said:
I saw a lot of public drunkenness, fighting and urinating in public. Sounds like my entire school career. They aren't doing any felonies that I saw. Alot of drunk boys being boys.
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Well the drunk boys won't be playing lax. I just graduated from college. I know the culture. I enjoyed my time there. But I didn't see one out of every three students getting arrested. That number is a little high, and it indicative of something more than boys being boys.
 
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jimotis4heisman said:
thomps, not to call you or the usc program out but what was the course of action when herschel dennis? i think he was one of the ones and the usc sex scandal. you know more about your program and what not and the details.
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Dennis was suspended until he was cleared (2 games into the season) and then essentially rode the bench as the 4th string runningback (behind Bush, White, and Desmond Reed). He had 28 carries on the year (compared to 137 the year before and 49 his freshman year) and then tore his knee up in practice before the Orange bowl
 
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Thomps I am just not into making examples of young men just to appease any group no matter how pissed of they are. The finest leaders in the world are the ones that stand up in the face of adversity and does what is right, not what is easy or politically correct. I just think that the Duke admin were freeken skirts for how they handled this situation.
Just becasue there were obviously things wrong does not mean that you use an atom bomb to just deliver a message. Use the right tool for the job.

As a guy that had to deal with townies for my HS and College years..fuck em and let them eat fish. :biggrin:
 
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jimotis4heisman said:
but to start it involved a wider scope of people correct? and then it was narrowed down to dennis and a few other no names (to us who arent pac10/usc fans?)
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Well the initial wild internet speculation was that it was 14 players, but the police investigation focused solely on Dennis from the beginning (to the best of my knowledge). I think the initial news reports read something like "At least one and as many as three USC players..."

Within a day or two, the newspapers were all focused on Dennis, too.

I guess to best answer your question I'd have to ask whether you are talking about the police scope or the news scope.
 
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There were other indications of foul play in the immediate news. The use of aliases by members of the team, for instance. Perhaps there were three other guys who are not on the team at the party. Who knows what is still to come out?

But it looks increasingly like the accusers stories are not accurate and that this team may have suffered some ugly consequences that they do not deserve and for which they cannot be compensated.

Lacrosse is not football but, if this is indeed a pack of lies, then just think for a moment about Andy Geiger and then multiply the injustice by tenfold for the the Duke lacrosse coach. University administrators are going to need to by that special "wide print" calculator to count the zeros on that lawsuit.

This case highlights the need for everyone to wait for objective evidence before rushing to judgement when people accuse others of crimes. It also highlights the foolishness of the team in hiring strippers for a party. Even if you agree with the behavior, you have to admit that it no longer leads to an acceptable risk.
 
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Ummmm... the lack of DNA evidence here is not at all surprising to me.

Some of the allegations here are that the players were changing their names to confuse their identity. When I heard that, I was surprised to find out that they would have left any DNA evidence at all. I mean, why go to such lengths to hide your identity only to give up the best evidence possible to establish your identity? They seemed to have covered their tracks pretty good on one end, so why wouldn't they have on the other?

Something's still not right here.
 
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