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Cleveland Venezuelans

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DZ83CK said:
The sad truth is they could sign an SS and SP in FA to "replace" these two and still have cut $15M in salary, but they refuse to do that. The Cleveland FO has no interest in investing any more cash resources to the current team than they absolutely have to. Forget salary cap, how about a salary floor to ensure each team has more than 2 or 3 legitimate MLB players?
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A salary floor would be nice. That would at least maybe possibly start to weed out owners like the Dolans. Make them pay something to play, not just throw a garbage team on the field to save the money to line their own pockets.
 
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buckeyemania11 said:
A salary floor would be nice. That would at least maybe possibly start to weed out owners like the Dolans. Make them pay something to play, not just throw a garbage team on the field to save the money to line their own pockets.
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I agree, I wish they had one like the NBA does, but they would never agree to it.
 
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buckeyemania11 said:
I don't think they'll really trade Ramirez because his deal is pretty club friendly.

Though now would be a great time to trade him to get maximum value due to said club friendly deal.
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Maybe the free agent and trade markets will pick up closer to (or during) Spring Training? There’s still the huge questions of when/if fans will be able to attend games and how many games will comprise the ‘21 season, will there be a DH, will some form is expanded playoffs be used again, etc.

The Indians might be the most extreme example of team cost cutting this off-season but they’re not the only ones trying to reduce team budgets. All of this seems to mean the market for Jose is not at the peak you believe. I think they’ll gamble that his trade value will be higher later.

With Frankie, they obviously believed the risk of waiting for a better deal was too great and took what was offered. Adding Cookie to the deal now might have been an exercise of the old maxim that it’s better to trade a player a year too soon rather than a year too late. Or, the trade of Cookie might demonstrate that the Indians financial situation is much worse than anyone has guessed? Either way, no fan can legitimately claim these moves are shocking. The Indians have given clear signals they were going this direction.

What’s next? I expect a catcher will be traded before the season ends. They currently have a disproportionate amount of payroll tied up in the position.
 
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NFBuck said:
CIN- Made the playoffs 3 times in 4 years from 2010-13. Made it this year at 31-29 and were swept. Outside of that, they've been bad.

PIT - Nice 3 year run from 2013-15, outside of that, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the sport since the early-90s.
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Jaxbuck said:
You aren't doing justice to "bad" and the epic futility of the playoff appearances. Notre Dame football is more competitive in the playoffs than the Reds.
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The Pirates last won a playoff series in 1979. 1979!

Have played 3 wild card games this century - all at home - and got shutout in two of them. Did manage to beat the Reds (go figure), then choked away a clinching home game against the Cardinals before being eliminated in the next game.

Oh, and lest we forget, 20 straight losing seasons (1993-2012). An all-time MLB record nobody wants. :pirate:

When it comes to MLB failure no one tops the Pirates, who also had the worst record in baseball in 2020. :lol:
 
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NFBuck said:
Well, that's the thing...they missed during what was, truthfully, a pretty long window for a small-market team. They've been very competitive since 2013. That's 8 seasons of competitive baseball. Most small market teams' windows, if they get one, is MUCH shorter. Lets look:

TB - Have made the postseason the last 2 years, and the WS this past year. How long will it last? Who know, but history says not long. Aside from recent history, they made the playoffs 4 times in 6 seasons from 2008-13.
BAL - They've been garbage for most of the time since the mid-90s with the exception of 3 playoff berths in 5 years from 2012-16.
MIN - Were consistent playoff participants for most of the 2000s, but were regularly stomped. Are now in a run of 3 appearances in 4 years. How long that continues remains to be seen.
KC - Outside of 2014 and 2015, they've been dead since the mid-80s. They did at least get a ring.
OAK - They've made the postseason 11 times in 21 years. They typically go through cycles of 3-4 good years followed by 3-4 bad. Have not advanced to the WS since the bash brothers 30 years ago, though.
MIA - Outside of their 2 successful postseason runs, they've mostly been trash in their 28 seasons. They snuck into the postseason with a 31-29 record this year and were swept.
CIN- Made the playoffs 3 times in 4 years from 2010-13. Made it this year at 31-29 and were swept. Outside of that, they've been bad.
MIL- Have made the postseason the last 3 seasons (this past year with a 29-31 record). Outside of that, twice in 35 years.
PIT - Nice 3 year run from 2013-15, outside of that, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the sport since the early-90s.
COL - Have reached the playoffs 5 times in 28 seasons. Got to a WS in 2007 and were jailsexed. Made the playoffs in 2017-18 and are now bad again.

Really, to me, CLE, MIN & OAK are the model small market teams as far as wringing out the most sustained periods of being competitive. Others have bubbled up for short windows and went right back to long periods of being lousy. And despite 8 years of pretty damn good baseball, CLE still was perpetually in the bottom 1/4 of the league in attendance. Hard to expect the owners to spend when they don't get people to the park even when they're winning.

Shouldn't have blown it to the Cubs, because history tells us we're probably in for a 3-5 year total rebuild.
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Quick note on the Rockies, it was really.close to the Indians doing the jail sexing in 2007. To me that was a big miss. I mean, 2016 sucked from a toying with your emotions toll, but sans Salazar, Carrasco and Drone boy, they were major underdogs
 
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AKAK said:
Quick note on the Rockies, it was really.close to the Indians doing the jail sexing in 2007. To me that was a big miss. I mean, 2016 sucked from a toying with your emotions toll, but sans Salazar, Carrasco and Drone boy, they were major underdogs
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Those last 3 games in the 07 ALCS were fucking Brutal. Outscored 30-5
 
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AKAK said:
Quick note on the Rockies, it was really.close to the Indians doing the jail sexing in 2007. To me that was a big miss. I mean, 2016 sucked from a toying with your emotions toll, but sans Salazar, Carrasco and Drone boy, they were major underdogs
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Oh God yeah. 2007 stings badly. They would have stomped the Rockies and to make matters worse, I lived in Colorado Springs at the time and was planning on getting up to Denver to see a game. Brutal.
 
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Zippercat said:
The Indians might be the most extreme example of team cost cutting this off-season but they’re not the only ones trying to reduce team budgets. All of this seems to mean the market for Jose is not at the peak you believe. I think they’ll gamble that his trade value will be higher later.
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If they trade José I will never watch an Indians game again I have put up with a lot of stuff from the Indians over the years but that would do it.
 
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Pretty soon the middle infield will look like the outfield has the past few (and current) years. Like 58 options for 5 rosters and they pretty much all suck. How they didn't manage to get an OF who had some sort of chance to start was beyond me.

I really don't mind the trade, but including Rosario was a joke. He was a non-tender candidate and has rated as a below average defensive SS. Meanwhile, Gimenez draws good defensive scouting reports, but yeah let's put the known poor defender at SS.
 
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