Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[stowfan]

And what kind of pro do you think he'll make? Is worthy of the #4 pick in your opinion? Since you probably watched him more than anybody here and all.

Including the loss to the Buckeyes, Syracuse finished 34-3. They lost a Big East road game which cost them their #1 ranking. They also lost in the Big East Championship game, Waiters scored 28 in that game trying to bring his team back.

The Cavs needed a scorer at the shooting guard spot. Waiters has been compared to Wade as a scorer. I find it rather silly to compare players based on one players worst game, to another players best game

In the NCAA final game, Thomas Robinson scored 18 points, Anthony Davis (1-11) scored 6. I guess Davis sucks, Robinson should have gone #1, and Davis drafted in the second round. Bottom line, I think the Cavs did well, SI gave them an A, the Sporting News gave their draft a B plus.

Also, WKNR had someone on the show last night who covered SU basketball. It came up that SU played a 2-3 zone, and Waiters would have to learn how to defend. The guest who cover SU responded, that in practice, SU played mostly man to man defense. His comment was Waiters had the fastest hands he had ever seen, and will be a shut down defender for Byron Scott.

 

[OH10]

The Cavs needed a scorer at the shooting guard spot. Waiters has been compared to Wade as a scorer. I find it rather silly to compare players based on one players worst game, to another players best game.

I didn't randomly pick some guy's best vs. worst. When each had a chance to get to the Final Four, Dwyane Wade showed why he would be a star at the next level and Waiters showed why he probably won't.

The comparisons to Wade are completely baseless to borderline insane.

 

[tsteele316]

I didn't randomly pick some guy's best vs. worst. When each had a chance to get to the Final Four, Dwyane Wade showed why he would be a star at the next level and Waiters showed why he probably won't.

The comparisons to Wade are completely baseless to borderline insane.

it's about as insane as the corrallary you're trying to draw in your argument.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

And what kind of pro do you think he'll make? Is worthy of the #4 pick in your opinion? Since you probably watched him more than anybody here and all.

I don't think he'll be #4 pick worthy. He's certainly not as good as Carmelo was when he came out....and I doubt his ceiling is as high as Carmelo's was.

 

[OH10]

I thought this was a particularly accurate take that mimics my feelings on the Waiters pick:

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic...s-No-4-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Frontpage|s

We have also been told Waiters shows up big for big games. That would be great if it were accurate. It's not.

Against Ohio State, in the Elite Eight, Waiters was invisible. He went 2 of 8 from the field and fouled out in just 20 minutes with nine points.

No question the Buckeyes were a good defensive team, but hardly impregnable.

Illinois guard Brandon Paul, who is the same size and plays the same position as Waiters, ripped OSU for 43 points on Jan. 10. Duke's Austin Rivers, another 2-guard who went six picks after Waiters, put 22 on the Buckeyes in Columbus. Purdue guard D.J. Byrd had 24 at Ohio State's expense.

Reading too much into one game? Not really, that one game was not an aberration.

Waiters had 2 points in 14 minutes vs. ninth-ranked Florida. Against No. 11 Georgetown he had 9 points in 35 minutes. Against No. 18 Louisville he had 7 points in 31 minutes. In total, Waiters had 11 outings of single-digit scoring in 37 games. His best outing against a ranked foe was 13 points against No. 18 Louisville on March 3.

Dion Waiters at No. 4? Really?

He does have talent. Waiters scored a career-high 28 points in the Big East championship game loss to unranked Cincinnati. But he is nowhere near the over-the-top Dwyane Wade comparisons so ridiculously uttered on draft night.

Wade dominated at Marquette, averaging 17 and 21 points in his two collegiate years, especially shining in the 2003 NCAA Tournament with a triple-double to beat top-seeded Kentucky and catapult his school to the Final Four.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Waiters only went 2-8 against Ohio State playing some of their best ball of the season, but Brandon Paul scored 43 when Ohio State was playing at it's worst. LET'S COMPARE THEM!!!!!

 

[tsteele316]

Waiters only went 2-8 against Ohio State playing some of their best ball of the season, but Brandon Paul scored 43 when Ohio State was playing at it's worst. LET'S COMPARE THEM!!!!!

we could also ignore the shit show that harrison barnes put up at the end of the season including against mighty Ohio U.

poor article written on shoddy logic.

 

[OH10]

Waiters only went 2-8 against Ohio State playing some of their best ball of the season, but Brandon Paul scored 43 when Ohio State was playing at it's worst. LET'S COMPARE THEM!!!!!

And what about the other no-show appearances vs. ranked competition?

 

[OH10]

we could also ignore the [Mark May] show that harrison barnes put up at the end of the season including against mighty Ohio U.

poor article written on shoddy logic.

Shoddy logic? What, you mean, he used actual statistics? Yeah, terrible logic...

Let's just go with the conclusory statement that the guy is just like Dwyane Wade because he is. We don't need to back it up... well, because we can't. So we'll just pretend all comparisons are illogical... except the ones that compare Wade to Waiters because they fit even without facts.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Florida - In the dog house, didn't play much....didn't play well.
Georgetown - 3rd on the team in scoring, Kris Joseph pretty much owned that game........as I recall nobody played very well outside of him.
Louisville - Same story as GTown except I'm certain nobody played well. That game was an insult to basketball.

I'm not here to say he dominated every game he played in....which I guess you would want to be able to say about the #4 pick (and again...I don't think he'll prove that he was worthy of that pick). Nobody really dominated games for Syracuse this year. They didn't have 1 or 2 kids that you had to count on every night to take over.

More than anything I'm just arguing against bad logic. DERP DERP he played bad in a game where some nobody played well against the same opponent DERP.

 

[OH10]

More than anything I'm just arguing against bad logic. DERP DERP he played bad in a game where some nobody played well against the same opponent DERP.

He was just arguing against the predictable assertion that somehow the Ohio State defense was better than anything he'll face at the next level. The OSU defense had flaws - mainly of the DT/Sullinger variety. Maybe Boehiem didn't know how to exploit them because he didn't have a quality big man to set the high screen and pop/roll. I don't know, but it's clear that there have been guards (not NBA-calibar) over the past couple of years who have been able to torch (not simply score... TORCH) Ohio State from the perimeter (Jordan Taylor, Etwaun Moore, Brandon Paul). The writer was simply pointing out the fallacy of arguing that any #4 pick of the shooting guard variety would have struggled against that Ohio State defense.

He also didn't rely solely on the OSU game to back up his claim - he even impliedly acknowledged that the game could be considered an outlier if he hadn't also no-showed against other top competition.

And since a college basketball season is comparably short vs. an NBA season AND half the season is played against patsies, it is quite appropriate to scrutinized his performance against Ohio State as one of the only barometers we have to evaluate him as a player. No one that watched that game not knowing who Dion Waiters was would have walked away saying he was a first-round pick, let alone top 5.

 

[DubCoffman62]

I see Waiters as kind of a Shannon Brown kind of player, a good extra guard to have on your roster.

 

[Brutus1]

I thought this was a particularly accurate take that mimics my feelings on the Waiters pick:

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/artic...s-No-4-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Frontpage|s

Did alot of digging to find that, huh ?


Just get over the fact that Grant and five other teams passed on your boy, Barnes.

 

[tsteele316]

Shoddy logic? What, you mean, he used actual statistics? Yeah, terrible logic...

Let's just go with the conclusory statement that the guy is just like Dwyane Wade because he is. We don't need to back it up... well, because we can't. So we'll just pretend all comparisons are illogical... except the ones that compare Wade to Waiters because they fit even without facts.

you mean cherry picking stats to back a shoddy assertion?

the waiters to wade comparisons stem from style of play, which do not really need direct statistical correlation since wade was a year older in college and played on a different team in a different system.

but, what would i expect from someone that tried to assert that cleveland blew the draft pick because the princeton system needs 4 3-point shooters on the court?

 

[OH10]

Did alot of digging to find that, huh ?


Just get over the fact that Grant and five other teams passed on your boy, Barnes.

Digging? The Advocate is my home county paper.

you mean cherry picking stats to back a shoddy assertion?

the waiters to wade comparisons stem from style of play, which do not really need direct statistical correlation since wade was a year older in college and played on a different team in a different system.

but, what would i expect from someone that tried to assert that cleveland blew the draft pick because the princeton system needs 4 3-point shooters on the court?

I knew a guy in high school that had the same style of play as Wade. I mean, he wasn't nearly as good, but they had the same "style." So there's that. And please, if I'm cherry picking, please show me the big picture stats that back up your attempt to sell yourself on this pick being the next DWade. There aren't any so I understand why you haven't. But, please, try.

The true Princeton offense is based on shooters being able to spread the floor. It relies on spacing. Kyrie is probably the only guy on the court whose shot will command respect. That's going to allow the defense to compress down closer to the paint, which causes problems for effective penetration. The players must also learn to be effective without the ball in their hands so they can spot up. Never seen that from Waiters. These are issues.

Now it's been said by Chris Grant that this was Byron's pick and that he had Waiters #2 on his board after Davis. So clearly Byron thinks he can fit into his version. Fine. But I thought it was strange to see the team's GM basically divorce himself from the pick - which makes it seem like Grant wasn't entirely on board after he failed to trade up for Beal.