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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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tsteele316;2173979; said:
so your argument is that you're going to be typcial miserable cleveland fans, and that is justification enough to back assertions based on flawed logic and incorrect assumptions?

by the by, both of those top pitching prospects got demoted to the minors, one of which got sent back to AA, and greg little had more receptions than Julio jones, who made atlanta statistically worse on offense last year. but those comments are for different cleveland whining threads.
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It's not being a typical miserable Cleveland fan. I think the point you are missing is that Cleveland management has largely been in the wrong. They make horrible decisions. If you haven't heard the Cleveland franchises have been largely irrelevant with the exception to lucking out on LeBron James in the last decade. Sure, when Indians out-spent the Yankees those were fun times too.

By the by, Pomeranz and White are still in their early 20's and have plenty of time to sort out control issues (mostly Pomeranz issue). I could really care less about White b/c I don't see anything other than a 4th starter in him. I still think Pomeranz will be beastly and have a MUCH better overall career than Jimenez. I'd also point out the Pomeranz has been widely considered an under-performer at this point yet he has an ERA of 3.72 while Ubaldo will be lucky to get his ERA under 4.5. I'd say Colorado will kill Pomeranz's career, but he needs to find the strike-zone consistently first and he will.

And yes, I really disliked the Greg Little pick. I never under-valued his athleticism, just hated that he wasn't a natural pass-catcher of the football and never will be. He's going to have drop issues throughout his career. It doesn't mean he won't put up big numbers, but he'll never be a legit #1 receiver. And he, or anyone else in the Browns receiving corps, will be good enough to make any of their QB's look decent. It's a train-wreck. And Julio Jones will clearly be a top 5 WR in the next 3-4 years. His talent is undeniable.

And not to mention...for every guy who hated taking Brady Quinn, there was someone who loved it. And how about when an insane amount of people in Cleveland thought Charlie Frye could be the next Tom Brady? It goes both ways for sure...

I just like my track record of picking this stuff :)
 
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stowfan;2173984; said:
Barnes is still the real mystery to me. During his final year in college, the report on Barnes was, a good shooter who can't create his own shot, and he averaged only 5.4 rebounds per game. He showed up for the combine, jumps out of the gym, and does great in all the drills. Just my humble opinion, but I'm happy he wasn't the pick.

OH1O, who would you have taken?
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I've made no secret that I would have taken Barnes over anybody in this draft not named Anthony Davis or Bradley Beal. I love his size, shooting stroke, and proven ability to score. You don't put up over 17 pts/gm on a stacked team like UNC without being able to score. And he obviously has great length to defend at the next level.

I do think there were some valid criticisms of his all-around game because he wasn't much of a distributor and I don't think he lived up to the hype at the college level. But he's the same age as Waiters, with better size and sigificantly better production. I wonder if Waiters had been the #1 recruit coming out of college and Barnes had been under the radar whether perceptions would have been flipped.

It goes back to my previous assertion that NBA scouts love what they don't know. The more they get to see you play, the less they end up liking you. (we know that because we saw guys like William Buford have their stock plummet each year) And, unfortunately for Barnes, if he didn't live up to the hype, his game was going to get picked apart by the vultures.

As far as the Waiters pick goes, I worry that he didn't work out for team and interview. It's not just a lack of production. There are serious questions about his attitude and the Cavs feel better being able to ignore the issue because the agent would let him talk to teams. Beal, MKG, and Barnes all worked out and interviewed. Their agents had nothing to fear. That's a huge RED FLAG to me that I feel is getting ignored in this discussion.

The article I linked points out (quite appropriately) that Waiters never could stay at one place very long. He was on the verge of transferring out of Syracuse after his freshman season. I don't buy into the theory that he wasn't talented enough to start. I do buy into the theory that Boehiem didn't trust him enough to start him. Again, huge RED FLAG.

That's not to say there aren't some things to like about Waiters. He did have a high 3-point shooting percentage (I WAS WRONG about that; See, I can do it). He does attack the basket. And he can handle the ball. Can he do all these things while playing in the framework of Byron Scott's offense (let's call it that because, clearly, it isn't a true Princeton offense or at least hasn't been run as one)? Can he play team basketball? Can he accept coaching? And can he perform for 35-plus minutes a night when he's never done it before? Can he play against top competition when he's never shown it before?

There are questions that I'm not sure the front office appropriately considered. Or maybe they just decided to roll the dice with what they didn't know very well in the hope that his style of play would trump his lack of production in the transition to the next level.

EDIT: For some clarification, I don't hate the Zeller pick and trade. I was a little frustrated at the time because I felt there was still a lot of talent in the draft (hello, Quincy Miller?) But I've said before I would have taken Zeller over Meyers Leonard because TZ has shown that he can perform in a balanced offense when he's not the focus. He can block shots, rebound, score insided and outside. He's not overly-athletic, but I would take what he is going to be in 3 years over what both the Heat and Thunder had starting at center most of the year.
 
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OH10;2174000; said:
I've made no secret that I would have taken Barnes over anybody in this draft not named Anthony Davis or Bradley Beal. I love his size, shooting stroke, and proven ability to score. You don't put up over 17 pts/gm on a stacked team like UNC without being able to score. And he obviously has great length to defend at the next level.

I do think there were some valid criticisms of his all-around game because he wasn't much of a distributor and I don't think he lived up to the hype at the college level. But he's the same age as Waiters, with better size and sigificantly better production. I wonder if Waiters had been the #1 recruit coming out of college and Barnes had been under the radar whether perceptions would have been flipped.

It goes back to my previous assertion that NBA scouts love what they don't know. The more they get to see you play, the less they end up liking you. (we know that because we saw guys like William Buford have their stock plummet each year) And, unfortunately for Barnes, if he didn't live up to the hype, his game was going to get picked apart by the vultures.

As far as the Waiters pick goes, I worry that he didn't work out for team and interview. It's not just a lack of production. There are serious questions about his attitude and the Cavs feel better being able to ignore the issue because the agent would let him talk to teams. Beal, MKG, and Barnes all worked out and interviewed. Their agents had nothing to fear. That's a huge RED FLAG to me that I feel is getting ignored in this discussion.

The article I linked points out (quite appropriately) that Waiters never could stay at one place very long. He was on the verge of transferring out of Syracuse after his freshman season. I don't buy into the theory that he wasn't talented enough to start. I do buy into the theory that Boehiem didn't trust him enough to start him. Again, huge RED FLAG.

That's not to say there aren't some things to like about Waiters. He did have a high 3-point shooting percentage (I WAS WRONG about that; See, I can do it). He does attack the basket. And he can handle the ball. Can he do all these things while playing in the framework of Byron Scott's offense (let's call it that because, clearly, it isn't a true Princeton offense or at least hasn't been run as one)? Can he play team basketball? Can he accept coaching? And can he perform for 35-plus minutes a night when he's never done it before? Can he play against top competition when he's never shown it before?

There are questions that I'm not sure the front office appropriately considered. Or maybe they just decided to roll the dice with what they didn't know very well in the hope that his style of play would trump his lack of production in the transition to the next level.

EDIT: For some clarification, I don't hate the Zeller pick and trade. I was a little frustrated at the time because I felt there was still a lot of talent in the draft (hello, Quincy Miller?) But I've said before I would have taken Zeller over Meyers Leonard because TZ has shown that he can perform in a balanced offense when he's not the focus. He can block shots, rebound, score insided and outside. He's not overly-athletic, but I would take what he is going to be in 3 years over what both the Heat and Thunder had starting at center most of the year.
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this in a nutshell basically confirms my earlier point. it's obvious chris grant and the cavs front office, one of the FO's that's notorious for their draft prep ignored all of these massive red flags and clearly didn't ask the most important questions regarding dion waiters because they liked him more than harrison barnes. it's the typical miserable cleveland fan mentality.
 
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I don't understand the need to continuously bash the Cavs draft. Would I have rather drafted Beal or MKG? Sure, but the Bobcats screwed that up so the Cavs took the 4th player on their draft board that in a perfect world will be a great fit for what the Cavs need in a SG. I don't see any good that would come from bashing Waiters. It would be dumbass Cleveland fans that would boo him when he first steps on the floor for the Cavs because they wanted someone else in the draft.

It isn't like Grant is purposing trying to screw up. He's the one with his job on the line if he makes bad picks and so far he has don't a good job in the draft. Give them a full summer of workouts and 2 players that have a good chance to fill 2 big needs and we'll see how the team improves.

What's done is done. Now it's time to get being the Cavs and hope for the best.
 
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hmm

http://networkedblogs.com/zGgqv

Ken Berger of CBSSports.com is reporting that the Brooklyn Nets may be calling upon the Cleveland Cavaliers to help facilitate a deal that would bring Dwight Howard to Brooklyn. It would reportedly be a sign-and-trade deal that would bring power forward Kris Humphries to the Cavaliers. The Nets are looking to acquire extra first round picks to send to Orlando, but the Cavaliers may want a first round pick to facilitate taking on Humphries.
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Ken Berger@KBergCBS
Nets "making progress" on finding a third team to take Kris Humphries in a scenario that would send Dwight Howard to Brooklyn, source says.
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Ken Berger@KBergCBS
One possible destination for Humphries is Cleveland, who would get the forward in a sign-and-trade arrangement, source says.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@WojYahooNBA
Cleveland's interest with Humphries is exclusively to use him as a means to stockpile further draft picks and assets, league source says.
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Well, since Mr. Kardashian is an unrestricted free agent anyway, they must be getting something else in the deal. I've heard Marshon Brooks could be included, too. I gotta give the Cavs credit for saying they want picks in the deal. I just hope they don't take Hedo and that shitty contract in the deal. Either way, more draft picks are always good.
 
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I'm not against taking in Humphries at all.. I was semi-expecting the Cavs to test the waters in free agency with him... we can use a PF in rotation...

I was also kinda hoping Walton could end wearing someone else's jersey.. OKC? for Durant !?!?!?
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2175712; said:
I'm not against taking in Humphries at all.. I was semi-expecting the Cavs to test the waters in free agency with him... we can use a PF in rotation...

I was also kinda hoping Walton could end wearing someone else's jersey.. OKC? for Durant !?!?!?
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Hell I'd take Lebron back if the Heat would eat Walton's contract.
 
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yahoo.com around 3pm.. with (some of my interjections from other articles)

In the proposed deal, Howard, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark would be sent to Brooklyn, and the Magic would receive the Nets' Brook Lopez, Damion James, Shelden Williams, Cleveland's Luke Walton and three future first-round picks, sources said. Cleveland would receive Orlando's Quentin Richardson, Brooklyn's Sundiata Gaines, Kris Humphries (on a one-year guaranteed deal), a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets. Brooklyn also would send Brooks to a fourth team (Clippers?) to get them an additional first-round pick to send to the Magic.

not sure but appears Cavs may be swapping a Rd1 instead of getting a Rd1 outright...

but Walton would play somewhere else ?!?!?! and so would his almost $7M/yr contract

if we did this, could we immediately cut Richardson? he's 63 yrs old.. and social security eligible
 
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NJ-Buckeye;2175801; said:
yahoo.com around 3pm.. with (some of my interjections from other articles)

In the proposed deal, Howard, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark would be sent to Brooklyn, and the Magic would receive the Nets' Brook Lopez, Damion James, Shelden Williams, Cleveland's Luke Walton and three future first-round picks, sources said. Cleveland would receive Orlando's Quentin Richardson, Brooklyn's Sundiata Gaines, Kris Humphries (on a one-year guaranteed deal), a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets. Brooklyn also would send Brooks to a fourth team (Clippers?) to get them an additional first-round pick to send to the Magic.

not sure but appears Cavs may be swapping a Rd1 instead of getting a Rd1 outright...

but Walton would play somewhere else ?!?!?! and so would his almost $7M/yr contract

if we did this, could we immediately cut Richardson? he's 63 yrs old.. and social security eligible
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not really sure what we gain out of this... seems like all we are doing is helping the Nets get better and we get nothing.. but i'm sure they have a plan.. right....
 
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and to make it real juicy... yahoo says

"Bynum, 24, has one year left on his Lakers contract and has a short list of potential teams with salary-cap space and supporting cast that primarily include the Dallas Mavericks and Houston Rockets with the Cleveland Cavaliers and a "couple others" on the list, league sources said. "

Take this roster, add in one year, 2 Rd1 draftees (we'll parlay the 3 #1s and 2 #2s into 2 really good ones), toss Bynum in the middle... and voila' .. we're dangerous... for years to come
 
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AuTX Buckeye;2175802; said:
not really sure what we gain out of this... seems like all we are doing is helping the Nets get better and we get nothing.. but i'm sure they have a plan.. right....
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We get $3 million? I don't know. Sounds like Humphries wants a guaranted multi-year deal. F That!

I do want the Nets to get Howard. It would at least help to keep some balance of power in the East because, right now, it is all in the West with the exception of the Heat*.
 
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