Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[tsteele316]

I respect Bilas as well, but when it comes to the NBA Draft he has nice things to say about everybody. I would HOPE the 4th pick could at least compete for ROY.

There is a reason Waiters' agent didn't let him work out or interview. If everyone thought Austin Rivers was a cocky jerk, then you should listen to Dion Waiters. He didn't start for Syracuse because Jim Boehiem was trying to break him down a little bit because he's not very coachable. He even said at one point that Waiters didn't want to play any defense.

I've never said Waiters didn't have potential. He does. But it's a microwave type player off the bench. I suppose if I'm being really optimistic, he could be like James Harden. But that is if he puts it all together.

The other problem is that I question whether they truly considered how he would fit in with Kyrie Irving. Waiters is not a "spot up" guy. He's a scorer and, at times, a creator for spot up guys. So how does that work with a guy (Irving) that has a similar skillset from the PG position. If Lebron and DWade have taught us anything, it's that redundancy on the court is not really a good thing.


I think a lot of people are stretching to convince themselves that this was a good draft because that's what we try to do. People did it with Luke Jackson. People did it with Brady Quiin. I remember trying to do it with Christian Eyenga when we passed on Dejuan Blair. People are now doing it with Brandon Weeden and Dion Waiters. Sometimes you just have to call it like you see it. I hope like hell I am wrong.

do you not know how the priceton offense, especially how scott runs it, operates? scott has said no less than about 100 times that he wants two guards that can handle the ball and initiate the offense. the offense is also predicated off of making good cuts and slashing, not simply spot up shooting. waiters does the former well. the scott priceton also works best when his pg can play well off the ball as well. guess what else irving does well? if anything, waiters is a great fit next to irving.

 

[Piney]

do you not know how the priceton offense, especially how scott runs it, operates? scott has said no less than about 100 times that he wants two guards that can handle the ball and initiate the offense. the offense is also predicated off of making good cuts and slashing, not simply spot up shooting. waiters does the former well. the scott priceton also works best when his pg can play well off the ball as well. guess what else irving does well? if anything, waiters is a great fit next to irving.

Was going to post this too... Waiters can initiate the offense, drive and kick to Irving who can then shoot or drive. Can Waiters shoot? Not as good as Beal could, but he doesn't have a MKG type shot.

It's the type of offense we run, how often did we see Irving this past season play off the ball? A good amount.

 

[3074326]

I respect Bilas as well, but when it comes to the NBA Draft he has nice things to say about everybody. I would HOPE the 4th pick could at least compete for ROY.

He picked Waiters over Anthony Davis.

I think a lot of people are stretching to convince themselves that this was a good draft because that's what we try to do. People did it with Luke Jackson. People did it with Brady Quiin. I remember trying to do it with Christian Eyenga when we passed on Dejuan Blair. People are now doing it with Brandon Weeden and Dion Waiters. Sometimes you just have to call it like you see it. I hope like hell I am wrong.

I don't see why non-Cavs fans would look at the Cavs draft and irrationally come to the conclusion that it was good. :p

It wasn't bad. That's all I'm saying. I'm not even saying it was good, because clearly the Cavs didn't get what they wanted. But it wasn't the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of humanity like it appears when reading this thread. I'm actually taking your advice and calling it like I see it. It's like a bunch of Cubs fans in here, EVERYONE LOOK HOW MUCH WE SUCK!! DON'T WE SUCK? WE ALWAYS HAVE, DID YOU KNOW? I hate that. It wasn't that bad last night.

 

[OH10]

do you not know how the priceton offense, especially how scott runs it, operates? scott has said no less than about 100 times that he wants two guards that can handle the ball and initiate the offense. the offense is also predicated off of making good cuts and slashing, not simply spot up shooting. waiters does the former well. the scott priceton also works best when his pg can play well off the ball as well. guess what else irving does well? if anything, waiters is a great fit next to irving.

A BIG part of the Princeton offense is that 4 players on the court are capable of shooting 3s. I have no idea how this is going to happen in the future with Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller; and an as yet unknown SF (Gee?).

It's also predicated on the assumption that Scott will be here after another losing season next year.

Yup. Stretching to sell yourself on it. Cool man. Wish I had your optimism.

 

[OH10]

He picked Waiters over Anthony Davis.

Then he's a fucking idiot.

 

[Piney]

Then he's a fucking idiot.

I actually think Anthony Davis will have a hard time winning the rookie of the year. Is he the best player? Yep, because he is a stud defensive player with room to grow on offense. I would not be surprised if Davis is a 12/10 type of player his rookie year. Pulls in tons of rebounds but is still raw offensively so his scoring average is closer to his rebound total versus being a 16/10 guy.

Then, what if Waiters comes in and averages 17-20 points and teams with Irving to push the Cavs to the #6 seed in the playoffs? He will be in the discussion for rookie of the year and might win it just because he showed more 'excitement' because he scored so much more.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

I actually think Anthony Davis will have a hard time winning the rookie of the year. Is he the best player? Yep, because he is a stud defensive player with room to grow on offense. I would not be surprised if Davis is a 12/10 type of player his rookie year. Pulls in tons of rebounds but is still raw offensively so his scoring average is closer to his rebound total versus being a 16/10 guy.

Then, what if Waiters comes in and averages 17-20 points and teams with Irving to push the Cavs to the #6 seed in the playoffs? He will be in the discussion for rookie of the year and might win it just because he showed more 'excitement' because he scored so much more.

Thats a big what if.
Dont hate the Zeller pick, hate giving up 3 picks even late ones to get Zeller. Especially looking at the spot up shooters who were there in the 2nd round.

The Waiters pick is still a stretch, they are hoping he can come in and score. However he got his [Mark May] handed to him against OSU, with no real big man. Granted OSU plays more D than most NBA teams. Honestly i wish they would have traded down in this situation.

For all of you about to quote stats and what not about Waiters... watched him a couple of times... was not impressed. sorry.

 

[tsteele316]

A BIG part of the Princeton offense is that 4 players on the court are capable of shooting 3s. I have no idea how this is going to happen in the future with Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller; and an as yet unknown SF (Gee?).

It's also predicated on the assumption that Scott will be here after another losing season next year.

Yup. Stretching to sell yourself on it. Cool man. Wish I had your optimism.

you don't need 4 guys that shoot a 3. that's a total myth. you need perimeter guys that can knock down jumpers and one big that's capable of hitting a baseline jumper for proper spacing. that's what the cavs got with zeller. byron scott has never run an offense predicating on having 4 3-point shooters. I have no idea where that came from.

 

[ArmyVet83]

After several Breckenridge Vanilla Porters and a good nights rest, I'm going to kick back and see how this draft pans out. While I'm not overly thrilled with the Cav's picks, I think the staff got who they wanted, an off-guard and center, on their terms. Here is my reasoning:

1) When MKG and Beal were off the board, they had three options @ 4: Barnes, Drummond, and Waiters. IMO, they choose the most well-rounded player at a position of need in Waiters. Could they have traded down or up? Maybe. Most of us like to assume the Cavs could have swung this deal or that deal. NONE OF US KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS before, during or after the draft.

Barnes will be a good NBA player but I do not think he fit all the needs they were looking for in SF, esp defense.

Drummond is stuck with the same label going into the draft: high risk and high reward.

2) When I first heard they traded 24,33, and 34 for Zeller...well...I was like...fuck! I slept on it after doing a little reading realized, there was no else they liked on the board. In addition, most of us agreed that there was no way they would use all four picks.

3) Cleveland got two team-oriented, well-rounded players that fit into their long-term plans. Both are smart basketball players that i think will mesh well with KI, TT, AV and the rest of the team.

4) What else this tells me is they are going to re-sign Gee. Some rumors are aloft about signing Johnnie Flynn at the point. Other FAs are possible..maybe a trade or two. Who knows.

5) Even if the Cavs sign Flynn, I would still like to see them bring in undrafted FAs like Hollaway/Xavier and/or Machado/Iona. While a bit undersized, both are tough gritty PGs that can score and play the point efficiently.

6) In retrospect, the Cavs drafted two very good players that fit the team. Let's see how this plays out.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

I'm still pissed.. we didn't get Durant

 

[Brutus1]

Well, at least all those dipshits that insisted Barnes was the Cavs guy for the last two years can finally shut up. I'm glad they passed on Barnes at #4.

Once MKG and Beal went 2 and 3, Waiters had to be the pick. Barnes has always been overrated. He's only good at shooting after getting the ball. Even then, his deep shot is only ok at best. He can't pass, dribble for any length of time, can't create for himself or teammates and his first step is so slow, he couldn't even beat Luke Harangody off the dribble. Let Golden State find that out for themselves.

Byron Scott is looking for players on the wing that can create for themselves and their teammates. This guy will do that, Barnes can not.

Grant is friends with a Syracuse coach and has been there many times this season and saw Waiters up close. He knows what he's getting into when he drafted this kid.

 

[Brutus1]

A BIG part of the Princeton offense is that 4 players on the court are capable of shooting 3s. I have no idea how this is going to happen in the future with Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller; and an as yet unknown SF (Gee?).

C'mon man, do you really believe that ? Sure, the college version originally designed by Pete Carril wanted ALL five players to be able to shoot the three. It's certainly not a BIG part, and certainly not the NBA version. It's more predicated upon cuts and ball movement, with the main goal of getting an easy layup because of defensive breakdowns.In the case where the layup is not there, you kick out for the open three.

 

[exhawg]

I just keep telling myself that I was pissed off last year when they drafted Thompson at 4 so there is no point getting upset before these guys take the floor. If they bring back Gee and Boobie that makes for a 3 man rotation at guard with Irving/Waiters/Boobie, Gee/Casspi at SF, and a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 with TT/Andy/Zeller. The only major hole left to fill is a dominate SF. It would be great if they could find a FA, but if they can't they will need to go SF next year.

 

[y0yoyoin]

My initial reaction after we made the trade for Zellers:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[billmac91]

After being extremely disappointed last night, I've come around a little bit. Obviously not the night Cavs fans wanted though.

I was convinced the Cavs would walk away with Beal or MKG, and to come away with Dion Waiters is obviously a bit shocking. I watch a ton of college hoops and always thought Waiters was a nice player but not the #4 pick. He has character issues, didn't start on his college team, hasn't played man defense in 2 years, and his athleticism is good but not elite/great. It has to be a bit shocking to Jim Boeheim that Carmelo went #3 not too long ago, and Dion Waiters, who didn't even start at Cuse' went #4? He must think he's dreaming....regardless of how he spins it.

I'm glad he can handle the ball, his outside shot will be serviceable, it's nice he can penetrate, but not worth the #4 pick, IMO. I'm getting tired already of hearing about he is similar to Dwayne Wade. Wade had elite athletic ability to go with a ridiculous reach that Waiters does not have. The comparison isn't really close. I think Waiters has a much nicer looking stroke and he does have the ability to get to the rim, but a lot of guys have that.

I was all aboard the tank-mobile earlier this year, and now I kind of wish they picked 8th or higher. There are a lot of players I would have preferred over Dion Waiters. And to trade 3 picks for Zeller really felt like a huge reach too. It just feels like they got very little value last night.

All that being said, I hope Dion comes in, starts, and proves he can score at the NBA level. He's here now...can't do anything but get behind him. It would be really nice to come away from a Cleveland draft and feel like they knocked it out of the park. The Browns and Cavs really make it hard though...