Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[NFBuck]

MoMass is not Braylon redux.. The difference? Massaquoi can catch the ball..

I beg to differ...

Target: 92 Drops: 7

washingtonpost.com

Targeted 92 times, dropped 7 of them. That was a knock on him coming out of college and he didn't disprove that.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

I am not for or against Mangini. However, Winslow and Edwards are no longer on the roster. That's a positive in my book.

Unless I'm mistaken... have we lost since Lewis went out? I was a Lewis fan.. but ironic that we won them all after he went out of the lineup

 

[Buckeneye]

Unless I'm mistaken... have we lost since Lewis went out? I was a Lewis fan.. but ironic that we won them all after he went out of the lineup

When you guarantee the opposing defense that your only going to get 2 yards running the ball every time, it tends to constrict everything else.




I loved Lewis for what he was 2 years ago. The dropoff was incredible though. That entire 07 season was running off of pure emotion. He's a veteran, a shoe-in for the HOF and a very solid presence in the locker-room for our youth. I would love to see him stay on in some type of (heavily) reduced role.


Today officially starts the off-season though, and its sucks but.

* Pay Cribbsy
* Lets get Harrison happy, he's showing some real promise
* Look at other QB potential because DA is sure-fire gone.
* Be smart with our draft picks, we have 11 and that's freakin' tits.

 

[Mac]

Unless I'm mistaken... have we lost since Lewis went out? I was a Lewis fan.. but ironic that we won them all after he went out of the lineup

That's because our RB's dont "Tip Toe Lewis"....they run. I'm kind of excited for next year. Hopefully we can do something positive in the offseason and come out firing next year.

 

[NFBuck]

That's because our RB's dont "Tip Toe Lewis"....they run. I'm kind of excited for next year. Hopefully we can do something positive in the offseason and come out firing next year.

I wouldn't get too excited based on these last four games. Credit absolutely has to go to everyone for not folding up camp, but they won games against the dregs of the NFL. There is still a real dearth of talent almost across the board. There are some building blocks, and maybe they can make some moves in FA, but there's still a shit ton of holes, an alarming lack of talent at skill positions and no definate HC.

One other thing; yeah, it's great what James Harrison did to close out the year, but he racked those numbers up against the 19th, 29th and 31st ranked defenses against the run. I think he'll be much better suited as part of a two back system as opposed to being a feature back.

 

[jlb1705]

I think it would be a mistake to think that the team that won the last four games is really any different (or better) than the one that started 1-11.

 

[LitlBuck]

Right now I am indifferent about Mangini. If he stays that will be okay and if he goes that will be fine also because like NFBuck I trust Holmgren and his football knowledge. He will bring in a good GM, head of college and professional scouting, and a good HC. The reason that I do not think Mangini will be back this because I do not think that he and Holmgren can coexist. Mangini will want more power than Holmgren would be willing to give him and I think giving him more power would be a mistake. He just needs to coach the football team and select the starting lineups. I do agree that I would like to see Rob Ryan stay but I think if Mangini goes Ryan will probably follow him.

I saw a Bill Cowher post a few pages back and you can forget that he will want more power Mangini currently has and I think if he coaches next year there will be in Tampa Bay and I do think he will coach next year.

I am not concerned about Cribbs. Holmgren will do right by him and on some of the other guys he is going to have to wait to see if a salary cap is going to be in place next year because that will dictate whether some guys will be unrestricted free agents or just free agents.

I thought that Holmgren was going to have his press conference today but I guess he is going to let Mangini do is season-ending press conference and then I assume they will sit down and chat but I think Holmgren has already made his decision and his contacts so the sit down will have no effect on his decision.

 

[NFBuck]

I saw a Bill Cowher post a few pages back and you can forget that he will want more power Mangini currently has and I think if he coaches next year there will be in Tampa Bay and I do think he will coach next year.

Lot of talk about him going to Buffalo if he goes anywhere. e!spn is now saying it's "unlikely" that Cowher will coach next season...obviously take that with a grain of salt.

 

[LitlBuck]

Lot of talk about him going to Buffalo if he goes anywhere. e!spn is now saying it's "unlikely" that Cowher will coach next season...obviously take that with a grain of salt.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Buffalo job. Maybe he won't go back into coaching and wait one more year until Fox gets fired by the Panthers. He will want an awful lot of control and to me, while he won at Pittsburgh, I really don't know how much input he had into the professional and college scouting. I will admit that he can coach but just not sure about all that other stuff he will want.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

One other thing; yeah, it's great what James Harrison did to close out the year, but he racked those numbers up against the 19th, 29th and 31st ranked defenses against the run. I think he'll be much better suited as part of a two back system as opposed to being a feature back.

Not bad for a guy playing linebacker for the Steelers. :p

 

[NFBuck]

Not bad for a guy playing linebacker for the Steelers. :p

I use "James" as short for Jerome.

I also use Tim as short for "Tyrone". :p

 

[BuckNut65]

I think it would be a mistake to think that the team that won the last four games is really any different (or better) than the one that started 1-11.

If you think this then you haven't been watching the same team. They played their best game of the season yesterday against a team that still had an opportunity to make the playoffs. They played hard and they played smart. How many penalties did you see in the game against the Browns? Very few....hard to believe this team is third in the NFL for having the least number of penalties. That's a far cry from the past when they shot themselves in the foot every other play. When was the last time you saw our o-line dominate like it has over the last couple of weeks. I don't care who we were playing, have you seen these Browns play smashmouth like this? Last time I saw us run the ball like this was 85/86 with Mack and Byner.

I have been a big Mangini basher on this forum but I think it would be a mistake to let him go now. The team has shown that they buy into what he is preaching. They had nothing to play for yet played harder and better with their collection of misfits and waiver wire pickups.

All that being said, there is such a gap between Mangini and Holmgren in their philosophical approach that I can't see Holmgren keeping Mangini onboard. Mangini and Ryan have shown some real ingenuity over the last couple of weeks with the personnel they have been using and their varying blitzing and coverage schemes. If you kept that in place and added Holmgren's offensive philosophies to the mix I think it would be a formidable combination.

I think one of the biggest measuring sticks of any coach is can you make the players you have play better. I believe the answer here is a resounding yes. If you look at guys like Bowens, Adams, Furrey, Rubin, Trusnik, Harrison, Moore and Massaquoi, none of these guys were starters or finished at their original position, however they played BETTER and understood what the team was trying to do. I think these guys are the poster children for what he is preaching... if you play hard and smart and buy into the team, you become very difficult to beat, regardless of talent or injuries.

I can't believe I am advocating keeping Mangini on board but this franchise needs some stability and some direction. I believe we finally have that on the management side with the hiring of Mike Holmgren. I also believe it would benefit the team to allow Mangini another year to move his approach forward. By allowing this, you provide the stability the Browns desperately need and if we are able to infuse some talent in the off season, I think there is the possibility of some very good things down the road.

There is some definite hope for next season. I say that every year but I think I actually believe it this time.

 

[LitlBuck]

If you think this then you haven't been watching the same team. They played their best game of the season yesterday against a team that still had an opportunity to make the playoffs.
They played hard and they played smart. How many penalties did you see in the game against the Browns? Very few....hard to believe this team is third in the NFL for having the least number of penalties. That's a far cry from the past when they shot themselves in the foot every other play. When was the last time you saw our o-line dominate like it has over the last couple of weeks. I don't care who we were playing, have you seen these Browns play smashmouth like this? Last time I saw us run the ball like this was 85/86 with Mack and Byner.There is some definite hope for next season. I say that every year but I think I actually believe it this time.

While I sort of agree with everything that you have said, I guess it boils down to who do you on Holmgren or Mangini. I don't know maybe they can work their differences out but I doubt it. I totally agree that stability is needed for this organization to move forward. I guess the one big problem that you have is what happens if this team goes 5-11 next season because Holmgren keeps Mangini. I know the opposite can hold true also that Holmgren brings in someone new and the team goes 5-11 but then that would be on Holmgren.

I guess the big question is where was this playcalling in the first 12 games of the season and is not the responsibility of the coach/GM/player personnel man to find the appropriate personnel. That was all under Mangini so where were these guys at the beginning of the season or why were playing some of the guys who should have been sitting. Mangini had no one to answer to except himself.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Vince says:

Mangini, linguini, martini, bikini...

 

[Meyer]

I guess the big question is where was this playcalling in the first 12 games of the season and is not the responsibility of the coach/GM/player personnel man to find the appropriate personnel. That was all under Mangini so where were these guys at the beginning of the season or why were playing some of the guys who should have been sitting. Mangini had no one to answer to except himself.

I just don't think Mangini had this team's full attention yet. And once he got it, and the team started winning, he kept their attention and they had a lot of momentum and belief that they could go out and win games. Also, Anderson had to be holding the team back in the middle of the season. The switch back to Brady helped a lot. Lastly, the defense getting better had a lot to do with the offense getting started. The field position was a lot better.

A lot of different factors went into the Browns' winning. I don't know if you can ever just point to one thing.

I completely agree about Holmgren though. If they can't work together then I guess Mangini has to go. A new coach on the same page is better than Mangini and the President being on different pages. I really wish that we would keep Mangini around though cause I really believe that whoever gets him as a coach is getting lucky. He fit in really well in Cleveland. The perfect attitude and work ethic for the Browns.