Christianity and Football(Split from 2009 Tidbits)

[jwinslow]

No one acted like "every religious person supports killing and death" anywhere in this thread. Such an assertion wouldn't be any more truthful than suggesting every German supported Jewish extermination in WWII.

However, the unfortunate fact is the violent events Cinci listed had their origins in religion, and millions have died as a result of them. There are currently over 25 nations living with religious-based violence, as people kill each other arguing over whose God is the real God. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so deadly.

You're right, and some of those religions are "American" or whatever you want to label it. W's invasion of Iraq was more about eliminating opposing & threatening belief systems (just more political than religious) and converting them to our own. It also has similar power & greed overtones hidden behind the banner of righteous justice and a clear divergence from certain core principles.

That's why I brought up the american flag, because it elicits that sense of distaste with many around the world, even a number within this own country (perhaps not the flag for most, but conduct done under its banner).

Just like the original point of this thread, religion becomes larger than the root of the problem - humanity. Positions of power lead to corruption with and without religion.

Tim Tebow would still be a great competitor and leader if Jake had talked him out of his faith down in Glendale. OSU would probably still have had chemistry & toughness issues even if they were ones to ridicule religion.

 

[Taosman]

W's invasion of Iraq? We all know what that was about and it wasn't anything to do with fuckin' terrorism.

Soon to be moved to the Poli in 4.....3....2....

 

[DaytonBuck]

Sgt. York

 

[MaxBuck]

Yum! Smelts!

Seriously, one of the problems virtue has is that it is too frequently used as a cloak for evil (and its red-headed orphan cousin, mediocrity).

The Crusades were a corruption of Christian faith, just as suicide bombers corrupt Islam. Just as Gitmo is a corruption (IMO) of the American way.

And I agree with Josh - anyone who believes the Christianity of some notable Buckeye players is the root cause of the apparent chemistry issues the 2008 team suffered with is a likely target of Brooklyn Bridge salesmen.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

My honest opinion is that the peculiar brand of christianity practiced by a lot of high profile athletes has a great deal to do with the ingrained narcissism of someone who's been told how wonderful he is and who's been the center of attention since grade school.

When it crosses over from simply being a Christian and into look at me! I'm a Christian, so you should be one too! Then I think it becomes more about that certain athlete's inflated sense of importance more than anything else.

At it's most dysfunctional, it takes the form of Kurt Warner who has, on numerous occasions, said that he believes God favors him over other athletes and takes a particular interest in his career and games because Kurt brings glory to god. In this warped view, God worries more about Kurt completing a td pass than about famine and disease and child labor. Sorry, that is just a massive personality disorder at work there.

 

[jwinslow]

My honest opinion is that the peculiar brand of christianity practiced by a lot of high profile athletes has a great deal to do with the ingrained narcissism of someone who's been told how wonderful he is and who's been the center of attention since grade school.

They are on a pedestal whether they want to be or not.

When it crosses over from simply being a Christian and into look at me! I'm a Christian, so you should be one too! Then I think it becomes more about that certain athlete's inflated sense of importance more than anything else.

Kind of like, I'm an elitist pr ick who must always put Fredo(s) in their place, and show others why they should too? :p

Personally, I think many people's distaste for Christianity is clouding the purpose of the eye black.

Then I think it becomes more about that certain athlete's inflated sense of importance more than anything else.

A lot of people sure notice it despite its supposed level of importance.

At it's most dysfunctional, it takes the form of Kurt Warner who has, on numerous occasions, said that he believes God favors him over other athletes and takes a particular interest in his career and games because Kurt brings glory to god. In this warped view, God worries more about Kurt completing a td pass than about famine and disease and child labor. Sorry, that is just a massive personality disorder at work there.

One certainly can be an example, but there's no support for absolute support like that.

 

[Gatorubet]

She is not wearing eye black, to get back on topic...

 

[Folanator]

My honest opinion is that the peculiar brand of christianity practiced by a lot of high profile athletes has a great deal to do with the ingrained narcissism of someone who's been told how wonderful he is and who's been the center of attention since grade school.

When it crosses over from simply being a Christian and into look at me! I'm a Christian, so you should be one too! Then I think it becomes more about that certain athlete's inflated sense of importance more than anything else.

At it's most dysfunctional, it takes the form of Kurt Warner who has, on numerous occasions, said that he believes God favors him over other athletes and takes a particular interest in his career and games because Kurt brings glory to god. In this warped view, God worries more about Kurt completing a td pass than about famine and disease and child labor. Sorry, that is just a massive personality disorder at work there.

That is kinda my original point. Born again Christian dogma tells the believers to testify to others and lead them twards salvation. This is somewhat unique when it comes to religions, (not universal but the BOC tend to be more aggresive and up front in their beliefs in order to testify). Many religious people you meet, you would never know that they had deep spiritual foundations. It is a in your face style of religion. Testimony can range from carrying the message to people that ask about Christianity. However it also is religious messages on eye black, WWJD wristbands, praising JC every opportunity. They are looking to testify to who every will take the message. Remember the rainbow hair guy? We all thought he was a wack job, now he is not that far out of line. My how times have changed.

Again, I am not saying that it is right or wrong.

For those of us that are somewhat neutral to religion it makes it uncomfortable. Because CLEARLY their lack of shared beliefs separates. It is a clear and bright line that is a roadblock to unity. Because I am an unbeliever, I am wrong, a sinner and am destined for hell unless I change my core beliefs.

There can be many things that people have different values on, but religion, and especially fundementalist style Born Again Christianity is a strong issue in a climate where there are a ton of mixed opinions. BOC's push their agenda to the top no matter what.

The Christians believe they are right, and that is fine. But they also believe that everyone else is wrong and going to hell. That is devisive and creates tension.

For Born again Christians, belief and religion are paramount in their lives. Everything else flows from this core belief.

I think that you guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think that this doesn't make for an uncomfortable locker room. Not for everyone, but certainly for a big group that just feels like they are on the outside.

 

[Buckeye86]

I think that you guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think that this doesn't make for an uncomfortable locker room.

Then the questions is whether or not there were in your face type Christians that you describe in the locker room (at Ohio State or otherwise). I don't think anyone other than the people actually in the locker room will ever know.

 

[Folanator]

Then the questions is whether or not there were in your face type Christians that you describe in the locker room (at Ohio State or otherwise). I don't think anyone other than the people actually in the locker room will ever know.

This is conjecture, and based on my own observations, but I am not sure how you could come to any other conclusion.

EDIT: I did not come up with the title of this thread. A much better title would have been...

Separation of Church and Ohio State.

 

[jwinslow]

It's a good thing the most clutch QB in OSU history was not one of those outspoken Christian types.

Or had teammates like Fox, Doss, Hartsock doing the same.

“About five years ago this started with small fliers when Mike Doss, Dustin Fox and Ben Hartsock wanted to share some things about faith as part of Campus Crusades. And it just grew from there. Each year we’ve had something small, but we wanted to make it bigger this year and really give back to the fans and let them know they are important to us as well.”

But at least they didn't wear visible symbols during games.

Or give thanks/credit to the man upstairs after making game changing plays.

Maybe, just maybe, this whole religion thing is a bit overstated.


I sure would kill to have Doss, Fox, Peterson, Hartsock back. Krenzel has to stay at 1460 and keep some football IQ in the building, with Spiels busy in Bristol these days.

 

[Buckin' A]

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

 

[jwinslow]

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

and he'd drag everyone else into a slump too...

we would have also accepted:
"he has to be involved in the discussion to be saying anything..."

 

[Folanator]

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

No idea, but it is well known that JC never used a stiff arm, he just turned the other cheek.

and he'd drag everyone else into a slump too...

we would have also accepted:
"he has to be involved in the discussion to be saying anything..."

JWins, you know I like you, but you are acting like a freeken chick. Just because I am making a point about the leadership of the '08 team does not mean that I am condeming all Christian FB players ability to lead. You know that chemistry is a fickle thing, it did not work this year. That sits on shoulders the team leadership. Their message did not work. They could have been handling snakes at their locker or praying to mecca in the end zone and I would make the same conclusion. I just think it was too much of a distraction and caused the team to loose focus.

 

[BayBuck]

JWins, you know I like you, but you are acting like a freeken chick. Just because I am making a point about the leadership of the '08 team does not mean that I am condeming all Christian FB players ability to lead. You know that chemistry is a fickle thing, it did not work this year. That sits on shoulders the team leadership. Their message did not work. They could have been handling snakes at their locker or praying to mecca in the end zone and I would make the same conclusion. I just think it was too much of a distraction and caused the team to loose focus.

I just think you are letting your bias against religion get in the way of a constructive discussion about team chemistry issues. The suggestion that Malcolm Jenkins and James Laurinitis are not excellent leaders is ridiculous, and your focus on their Christian beliefs is a distraction from the likelihood that the divisions in the locker-room were completely unrelated to religion. We've got an incredibly talented '08 class led by a blue-chip recruit taking PT and starting jobs from established veterans, and you think the problem is about wrist-bands? Get a clue.