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Brady "XLLL" Hoke (Head Coach San Diego State)

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zincfinger said:
Watching it today (I didn't watch it on Saturday), it did not seem indisputable to me, or even preponderantly likely, that Morris was discombombulated after the high hit. He certainly stumbled and was caught by a teammate, but it seems entirely plausible to me that that was due to the ankle injury. And when he waved the sideline off a moment later, I thought he had the appearance of being in possession of his faculties. None of which is to say that he clearly was not halfway knocked out, I just don't think there is any clear indication that he was.
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Regardless, he had just taken a nasty headshot, and layed on the ground for a few seconds after the hit. And even if it was "just an ankle injury", he clearly had limited mobility which left him open to more punishment given the absolute sieve of an OL he was operating behind.

As for him being woozy or just having a bum ankle, is that something worth even debating? If he hadn't just taken a horrific shot, you could make that argument. But being that he stood up, obviously wobbly, and stumbled into a teammate immediately following a wicked hit, that shouldn't even be up for discussion. You get him out and evaluate him properly. You certainly don't reinsert him < 2 minutes later (real time) when you could trot any number of guys out there to hand the ball off...or even, you know, call a timeout. It was just gross all the way around. I know I was horrified watching it, and I have no emotional investment in the player.
 
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NFBuck said:
Regardless, he had just taken a nasty headshot, and layed on the ground for a few seconds after the hit. And even if it was "just an ankle injury", he clearly had limited mobility which left him open to more punishment given the absolute sieve of an OL he was operating behind.

As for him being woozy or just having a bum ankle, is that something worth even debating? If he hadn't just taken a horrific shot, you could make that argument, but being that he stood up, obviously wobbly, and stumbled into a teammate immediately following a wicked hit, that shouldn't even be up for discussion. You get him out and evaluate him properly. You certainly don't reinsert him < 2 minutes later (real time) when you could trot any number of guys out there to hand the ball off...or even, you know, call a timeout. It was just gross all the way around. I know I was horrified watching it, and I have no emotional investment in the player.
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Hoke claimed he didn't see the hit, as he was following the ball down-field (An excuse that is at least believable). But, the ramifications of that hit were undeniable, seen or unseen. Someone had to have seen the hit.. I mean, Jesus, even with the "follow the ball" excuse, you were watching the ball when it was in his hands and ... OK.. so here's the thing.. in real time, I didn't even think it should have been a flag.. I knew a big hit was coming because the Minny player was already launched prior to the ball leaving Morris' hand... in any case.. surely someone on the staff saw Morris get leveled. Even if he waved off a substitution (and it was a RB who signaled for one to come in) by the time he does get to the sideline, someone on that staff should have said "Give me your helmet and come with me" The fact that there was not even a concussion test is inexcusable.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Hoke claimed he didn't see the hit, as he was following the ball down-field (An excuse that is at least believable). But, the ramifications of that hit were undeniable, seen or unseen. Someone had to have seen the hit.. I mean, Jesus, even with the "follow the ball" excuse, you were watching the ball when it was in his hands and ... OK.. so here's the thing.. in real time, I didn't even think it should have been a flag.. I knew a big hit was coming because the Minny player was already launched prior to the ball leaving Morris' hand... in any case.. surely someone on the staff saw Morris get leveled. Even if he waved off a substitution (and it was a RB who signaled for one to come in) by the time he does get to the sideline, someone on that staff should have said "Give me your helmet and come with me" The fact that there was not even a concussion test is inexcusable.
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Exactly. It's a ridiculous premise they're trying to sell. They would have you believe not one person of ~ 100+ people on that sideline saw him take that awful hit, nor did any one of them have the presence of mind, or even simple compassion to say "hey, Shane just really had his bell wrung and is staggering around a bit." Please.

Even the fucking incompetent B1G refs were asking Hoke if he wanted a timeout, or wanted to at least pull him out of the game.
 
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NFBuck said:
Regardless, he had just taken a nasty headshot, and layed on the ground for a few seconds after the hit. And even if it was "just an ankle injury", he clearly had limited mobility which left him open to more punishment given the absolute sieve of an OL he was operating behind.

As for him being woozy or just having a bum ankle, is that something worth even debating? If he hadn't just taken a horrific shot, you could make that argument. But being that he stood up, obviously wobbly, and stumbled into a teammate immediately following a wicked hit, that shouldn't even be up for discussion. You get him out and evaluate him properly. You certainly don't reinsert him < 2 minutes later (real time) when you could trot any number of guys out there to hand the ball off...or even, you know, call a timeout. It was just gross all the way around. I know I was horrified watching it, and I have no emotional investment in the player.
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If your view is that a player should always be pulled for evaluation when he takes a nasty hit and appears to be in pain or otherwise shaken up, that's a totally legitimate opinion. I was just responding to your statement that Morris was indisputably woozy, assuming "woozy" meant some kind of head injury.
 
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Nussmeier (sp?) passing the buck -- claiming coaches have no input whatsoever and it's all on the medical staff.
I have several questions:
- Was he ever evaluated for a concussion during the game? (It didn't look like it to me)
- How soon afterwards does an evaluation need to be done before it's only detectable with a brain scan (if that?)

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I see cover up all over this. Circle the wagons and find a doctor that'll claim Shane wasn't concussed based on nothing but his own testimony.
 
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zincfinger said:
If your view is that a player should always be pulled for evaluation when takes a nasty hit and appears to be in pain or otherwise shaken up, that's a totally legitimate opinion. I was just responding to your statement that Morris was indisputably woozy, assuming "woozy" meant some kind of head injury.
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The issue is that's generally not a matter of opinion but SOP at this point in time.
 
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zincfinger said:
If your view is that a player should always be pulled for evaluation when takes a nasty hit and appears to be in pain or otherwise shaken up, that's a totally legitimate opinion. I was just responding to your statement that Morris was indisputably woozy, assuming "woozy" meant some kind of head injury.
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I would think any time a player gets up from a terrible hit, after laying on the ground for a few seconds, and wobbles that he should absolutely be evaluated. Pre-existing lower-body injury or not.
 
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zincfinger said:
If your view is that a player should always be pulled for evaluation when takes a nasty hit and appears to be in pain or otherwise shaken up, that's a totally legitimate opinion. I was just responding to your statement that Morris was indisputably woozy, assuming "woozy" meant some kind of head injury.
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I think, as a coach, you sometimes do have to defer to the player.. I mean, players wave off substitutions all the time... and.. to the extent that this buffoon had no idea Suga had just been leveled, ok... But, when the guy gets to the bench someone has got to check him out. Period. Michigan did not. If he was being checked on by medical personnel, he would have had his helmet on and would have been in the middle of the test.
 
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kujirakira said:
Nussmeier (sp?) passing the buck -- claiming coaches have no input whatsoever and it's all on the medical staff.
I have several questions:
- Was he ever evaluated for a concussion during the game? (It didn't look like it to me)
- How soon afterwards does an evaluation need to be done before it's only detectable with a brain scan (if that?)

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I see cover up all over this. Circle the wagons and find a doctor that'll claim Shane wasn't concussed based on nothing but his own testimony.
Click to expand...
Another cop-out. That whole dog-and-pony show is disgusting and insulting. So, they're to have us believe the coaches have no say on a player's well being? Who's running the show, the coaches or the medical staff? Jesus Christ.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Hoke claimed he didn't see the hit, as he was following the ball down-field (An excuse that is at least believable). But, the ramifications of that hit were undeniable, seen or unseen. Someone had to have seen the hit.. I mean, Jesus, even with the "follow the ball" excuse, you were watching the ball when it was in his hands and ... OK.. so here's the thing.. in real time, I didn't even think it should have been a flag.. I knew a big hit was coming because the Minny player was already launched prior to the ball leaving Morris' hand... in any case.. surely someone on the staff saw Morris get leveled. Even if he waved off a substitution (and it was a RB who signaled for one to come in) by the time he does get to the sideline, someone on that staff should have said "Give me your helmet and come with me" The fact that there was not even a concussion test is inexcusable.
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Absolutely. Even if no one saw the hit, didn't they relay the next play in? When you do that, don't you look at the quarterback to see if he's watching you? And when you look at the quarterback and see that he needs a lineman to hold him up, don't you think you need to make a decision? Even if it was a high ankle sprain, maybe you ought to check it out? But as far as that goes, there is a difference between walking woozy and walking with a limp. I'm no doctor, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but he was walking woozy. In order to be a tee-ball coach for my 5-year-old, I had to watch a video about concussions. Do I know more about concussions than Hoke does? I hope that for the safety of football players of all ages, in all areas of the country, that I don't know more about concussions than a single one of them. Because there are very real and serious dangers involved, and if Hoke can't at least point some medical staff to check out Morris, then the sport is in serious trouble.
 
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