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2015 Offense Discussion

I have to agree with 86 on the coaching aspect, what happened to playing fast? They are lucky to have the play called with any more than 10 seconds on the clock most of the time and then are rushing to read the defense and get the ball snapped.

All of the mistakes I see on a weekly basis seem to be the same ones over and over, that falls on coaching.
Noticed that too.

What is the deal with all the pre-snap work Cardale is doing?? It obviously isn't working- it's coming in slow, it's clearly not getting assignments right, and it causes rushed snaps at times. Too many moving parts right now. Simplify.
 
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Noticed that too.

What is the deal with all the pre-snap work Cardale is doing?? It obviously isn't working- it's coming in slow, it's clearly not getting assignments right, and it causes rushed snaps at times. Too many moving parts right now. Simplify.
I thought the main reason behind Cardales success was keeping the playbook simple. Our offense was very different and simplified the last 3gms to the NC. It seems like the coaches are opening up the playbook and its too complicated (not saying that Cardale isn't bright) in the heat of the game.
 
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Spiels on 97.1 blaming it on timing between the QB and the WRs, and puts it on the OC, WR coach, and QB coach to get the reps and make it second nature for the players.

I agree 100%.

My question is, why is the timing not better at this point? Cardale had the end of last season, all spring and most of fall camp to develop timing with the receivers. Why has this not happened already? We shouldnt be 5 games into the season already worrying about timing.
 
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I thought the main reason behind Cardales success was keeping the playbook simple. Our offense was very different and simplified the last 3gms to the NC. It seems like the coaches are opening up the playbook and its too complicated (not saying that Cardale isn't bright) in the heat of the game.

I think this is also a reason why we can't play fast. JT seemed to have a more cerebral approach and was able to make adjustments quickly and Cardale doesnt seem to be able to do that so far. This Offense seems to be able to get into more of a rhythm when they do go tempo.
 
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My question is, why is the timing not better at this point? Cardale had the end of last season, all spring and most of fall camp to develop timing with the receivers. Why has this not happened already? We shouldnt be 5 games into the season already worrying about timing.

I think it comes down to 3 things.

1) Playcalling - a lot of defenses for the last 3 years haven't been overly perplexed by what the Ohio State offense does, just when it was going to do it. Similar to Auburn, OSU under Herman ran a lot of base offense plays that used window dressings (motions, fakes, and personnel) to disguise the plays. I don't see the defenses so far being confused with what we're running because the extras haven't warranted it, and there's been good pass and run game coverage.

2) Reps - are there adequate time spent mentally and physically preparing for the plays? The best way to execute something is through practice, making it second nature. I don't think it's a coincidence that Braxton, Guiton, Barrett, and Jones were plugged into Herman's version of the offense and succeeded. I don't think the splitting of the reps should affect the total number of reps.

3) QB decision making - is Cardle, or JT for that matter, trusting what he sees and executing? In addition to knowing what to do and when, you need have the right motion, right feet, and right velocity. The fact that the quarterbacks have both struggled would lead me to believe they aren't comfortable. Why isn't the QB being coached up in terms of pocket presence, footwork, or understanding the coverages.
 
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I was so frustrated Sat night I sat down and charted every offensive possession to see what I could learn.

First, let me say that they won the game - and that is no small thing. They beat a B1G undefeated team (regardless of the quality of IU's schedule) on the road. The defense contributed greatly to the overall struggle via penalties and brain farts. Not too worried about them though. They have been pretty consistent all year. They will clean up the penalties and miscues and continue to give Ohio State a good chance to win games. The Ohio State offense was pretty good on penalties. Braxton's PF wiped out a TD and the illegal shift forced a FG rather than a 3rd and long chance. Mike Ts throat slash didn't look like a throat slash, but was inconsequential anyway. The receivers blocked better. The OL performed well, particularly in the 2nd half. So, there was some noticeable improvement in areas.

That said, after looking at each possession and each play call, it's hard to deny that the offensive coaching staff is confused about who they want to be and how they want to use the weapons at their disposal. It is a cluster of dysfunction. Indiana, from the get-go was going to load the box and force Cardale to throw on them. Every team is doing that - yet the offensive staff chose to force a touch to Braxton on the first play for -7 yards. The playcalling fails to indicate a commitment to a particular identity or any pre-planned way to distribute the ball. Obviously, at half, they chose to give the ball to EE (wise), and they changed the way they were blocking. This led to 3 explosive runs that saved their arses. With 10 MINUTES left in the game (with a 7 point lead), they decided to not trust Cardale to throw a single pass. My friend Bob texted me at about that point and said, "Don't you get the feeling that Cardale is on the verge of doing something really, really stupid?" Evidently, the coaching staff had that same feeling, and that is a problem that should not be glossed over. On their last possession - where a first down would have essentially ended the game - on 3rd and 12 they called a lead draw that led to a punt and the final drama. Urban/Warriner/Beck chose to punt and play defense rather than try to win the game with their QB. That is a worrisome development - and it appears they made that decision very early in the 4th qtr. I'm sure every team from here on out is going to try to be close enough get Ohio State to shut down the passing game for the entire 4th qtr.

The Bucks were 2/14 on 3rd downs. Cardale was 3-6 passing on 3rd downs for 0 first downs. They had one sustained drive the entire game: 10 plays for 66 yards that led to a FG. They had one drive (after the moronic fake punt) of 4 plays for 4 yards that led to a FG. All 4 OSU TD's were the result of short drives and explosive plays: 23 yd reception by MT, and runs of 55, 65, and 75 by EE. Translation: this offense is incapable of stringing first downs together, eating clock, and scoring a TD. Scary - because the offensive production basically consisted of 4 explosive plays. If IU only allows 3, that game is tied late in the 4th. If they only allow 2, OSU probably loses that game.

Braxton had 2 touches, Mike T 4, Jalin M 4, Vannett 1, Wilson 1, C Smith 1, and C Samuel 1. Curtis Samuel didn't practice much last week, and Corey suffered the broken leg, but neither of them are prime targets. EE had 25 touches, but the remainder of the offense involved Cardale running (awful) and passing (not efficient). The QB - with designed runs and scrambling - had runs of: 0, -8, -2, -1, -6, -4, +5, -5, and -2 for a net -23 yards. He did not throw for a first down on 3rd down all day. He threw 2 consecutive inaccurate throws on goal to go where an accurate pass on either would have scored a TD. And he threw, in Urban's words, "an inexcusable" pick in the redzone. The QBR for Cardale in this game was 8. 4 of the 5 lowest QBRs since Urban Meyer has been at OSU are owned by Cardale this year. The cluster of dysfunction in the passing game has to be due to some combination of: QB play, receiving corps play, QB coaching, overall coordination of the offense. After looking at the play calling for the whole game, you get the sense that it started off with some kind of plan, but pretty quickly devolved into "let's try this, no that", and ultimately to "let's win with Tressel-ball": run 3x's, punt, and play defense - which won the game, but barely, and is not very good at inspiring confidence that anyone in charge of that side of the ball really knows what they want to do or how they want to do it.

Now, I just want to vent. I am pissed off beyond all reason about this QB situation. Could it be that the guy who the team voted to lead them as a captain might want that guy to lead them on offense? We are having problems distributing the ball to playmakers. Who had the best season in OSU history distributing the ball last year over 12 games? He is over on the sideline. We aren't being efficient on offense. Who was the most efficient QB in the B1G last year? He is wearing a headset. We need to score more TD's. A guy who produced 45 last year didn't even play Saturday. We aren't good running the ball from the QB position? The guy who ran for 1K and 11 TDs last year has been made a de-facto assistant coach. They changed the offense to fit Cardale so that they could do this power running/long passing offense, and Cardale has 5 TD's and 5 Int's. They put JT in to run the offense designed for Cardale, and he struggles too. Well, no wonder! Plus he is not getting the practice reps he would need to succeed when he has had an opportunity. Granting that I am getting paid 0 for what I know about football, and Urban is getting slightly more than that, I have to say that he picked the wrong guy to lead this offense, and I sense he feels he is at the point where he just has to ride it out for better or worse. He can't change the offense back in mid-season, so this dumpster fire is what we have: neither QB can run it well right now, but Cardale will have to get better - and he probably will, but it still makes me want to puke. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It wasn't broke last year, but they did try to fix it, and now all of us are going to have to live with it.
 
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Actually Urban said they have been discussing and considering playing JT in RedZone situations, which in my mind means he sees the same thing I have been saying since last year, Cardale is not good in the Redzone because he cannot run the football, does not roll out well, and does not throw that well in tight areas.

Chris Spielman is my all time favorite Buckeye, so much that my bulldog is named Spielman. I agree with him saying it is the timing, however, the timing is much more of a QB problem than a receiver problem. Mike T, Marshall, Dontre, they are going to run the route the same pretty much every time, they are going to come out of their break the same for the most part, IT IS UP TO THE QB TO DELIVER THE BALL ON TIME, not the other way around. It isn't the Receivers Coach or the WR's fault the ball is not out on time. I said this multiple times. Cardale holds the ball too long, he doesn't throw anyone open, he doesn't take three steps and let it rip before a receiver makes their break like a good QB does, and he doesn't step up in the pocket often times. He just does not seem to read the defense quick enough and the ball is late often on completions too.

So though I agree with Spiels, I think he was being kind and I would bet my arse he agrees with me that it is the QBs fault the timing sucks, and it is the OC, QB Coach, and WR Coach that needs to make sure it gets fixed.

Also, we have had WR's grading out Champion performers, Cardale is yet to grade out in one of 5 games.
 
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This is not rocket science...Remember at the end of the season when they had to throw Cardale in short notice? They admitted, they SIMPLIFIED THE OFFENSE to accommodate the inexperienced QB.

Perhaps, with all the offensive weapons they possess, they have just made this offense much too complicated. When it is simplified, these ridiculously talented athletes can just play fast. When the playbook is made more complicated, things are just too slow and the timing is screwed up.

DO NOT PUT BRAXTON IN THE BACKFIELD!

Send him out on deep routes, he will likely occupy 2 defenders and open things up for the rest of the offense.

Run Elliott, dink and dunk to Vannett, Jaylin, and Thomas, and throw the occasional bomb. Get these talented players the ball in space and just let them do their "thang".

So frustrating watching these games where the offense seems to be regressing instead of improving, when all they need to do is simplify things.
 
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I get what you are saying, but the "dink and dunk" was last year's offense: read option base run with short/intermediate passing (with an occasional deep shot). That's gone. They haven't done that since scUM - at least on a consistent level. They went to RB/QB power run with intermediate to long passing. They do throw in a few screens and slants in here and there, but the power running game has to be complimented by taking the top off of the defense. It worked the last 3 games of the 2014 season because Devin Smith was the perfect compliment to Zeke's power running. It was certainly a beautiful thing to see. So beautiful that the coaches decided to roll with it this year. The problem is that Cardale and his receivers aren't taking the top off with enough regularity to keep defenses from dirtying up the box, and that makes it tough sledding for QB/RB power runs. To keep the defense honest and move the chains, the QB needs to complete some of those short and intermediate passes, but he hasn't done enough of it. And the result is an offense that cannot string first downs together.

I think the coaches are caught in between those two offenses. The one they really want to do isn't moving the ball, so they go back and dabble with a little of the old offense to mix it in. I think they have to stick with what they started with. I don't think it's possible to swap offenses 5 games in. The most you could do is re-integrate a few plays every week back in - but Cardale can't do some of the stuff that was the most effective. I think you would only do that if you were going to play JT some or start him. Otherwise, Cardale needs to run this offense because he is capable of doing it. The quickest answer to these offensive problems is for him to just play up to his ability. The coaches can make it easier on him by finding out what he and the whole offense feel most confident about doing on 1st and 10 to gain 4 yards, and on 2nd and 3rd down to get a first down, and work on the things they aren't as comfortable with on 2nd and short. As it is, they are trying to do a bunch of things and not doing any of them very well. But there is a downside to simplifying - every DC will know what is coming almost every down. So, it's a pickle. But cut down on the turnovers and get a little better QB play, and with a pretty good defense, that should carry them through to Nov 21 and 28 when they had better have it in high gear.
 
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Run Elliott, dink and dunk to Vannett, Jaylin, and Thomas, and throw the occasional bomb. Get these talented players the ball in space and just let them do their "thang".

So frustrating watching these games where the offense seems to be regressing instead of improving, when all they need to do is simplify things.

The problem is that I don't think Cardale can 'dink and dunk'. Hopefully he will soon start to develop that ability, but his strong suit is not spreading the ball around, which is why it will remain a mystery as to why he was chosen to be the QB.
 
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I was so frustrated Sat night I sat down and charted every offensive possession to see what I could learn.

First, let me say that they won the game - and that is no small thing. They beat a B1G undefeated team (regardless of the quality of IU's schedule) on the road. The defense contributed greatly to the overall struggle via penalties and brain farts. Not too worried about them though. They have been pretty consistent all year. They will clean up the penalties and miscues and continue to give Ohio State a good chance to win games. The Ohio State offense was pretty good on penalties. Braxton's PF wiped out a TD and the illegal shift forced a FG rather than a 3rd and long chance. Mike Ts throat slash didn't look like a throat slash, but was inconsequential anyway. The receivers blocked better. The OL performed well, particularly in the 2nd half. So, there was some noticeable improvement in areas.

That said, after looking at each possession and each play call, it's hard to deny that the offensive coaching staff is confused about who they want to be and how they want to use the weapons at their disposal. It is a cluster of dysfunction. Indiana, from the get-go was going to load the box and force Cardale to throw on them. Every team is doing that - yet the offensive staff chose to force a touch to Braxton on the first play for -7 yards. The playcalling fails to indicate a commitment to a particular identity or any pre-planned way to distribute the ball. Obviously, at half, they chose to give the ball to EE (wise), and they changed the way they were blocking. This led to 3 explosive runs that saved their arses. With 10 MINUTES left in the game (with a 7 point lead), they decided to not trust Cardale to throw a single pass. My friend Bob texted me at about that point and said, "Don't you get the feeling that Cardale is on the verge of doing something really, really stupid?" Evidently, the coaching staff had that same feeling, and that is a problem that should not be glossed over. On their last possession - where a first down would have essentially ended the game - on 3rd and 12 they called a lead draw that led to a punt and the final drama. Urban/Warriner/Beck chose to punt and play defense rather than try to win the game with their QB. That is a worrisome development - and it appears they made that decision very early in the 4th qtr. I'm sure every team from here on out is going to try to be close enough get Ohio State to shut down the passing game for the entire 4th qtr.

The Bucks were 2/14 on 3rd downs. Cardale was 3-6 passing on 3rd downs for 0 first downs. They had one sustained drive the entire game: 10 plays for 66 yards that led to a FG. They had one drive (after the moronic fake punt) of 4 plays for 4 yards that led to a FG. All 4 OSU TD's were the result of short drives and explosive plays: 23 yd reception by MT, and runs of 55, 65, and 75 by EE. Translation: this offense is incapable of stringing first downs together, eating clock, and scoring a TD. Scary - because the offensive production basically consisted of 4 explosive plays. If IU only allows 3, that game is tied late in the 4th. If they only allow 2, OSU probably loses that game.

Braxton had 2 touches, Mike T 4, Jalin M 4, Vannett 1, Wilson 1, C Smith 1, and C Samuel 1. Curtis Samuel didn't practice much last week, and Corey suffered the broken leg, but neither of them are prime targets. EE had 25 touches, but the remainder of the offense involved Cardale running (awful) and passing (not efficient). The QB - with designed runs and scrambling - had runs of: 0, -8, -2, -1, -6, -4, +5, -5, and -2 for a net -23 yards. He did not throw for a first down on 3rd down all day. He threw 2 consecutive inaccurate throws on goal to go where an accurate pass on either would have scored a TD. And he threw, in Urban's words, "an inexcusable" pick in the redzone. The QBR for Cardale in this game was 8. 4 of the 5 lowest QBRs since Urban Meyer has been at OSU are owned by Cardale this year. The cluster of dysfunction in the passing game has to be due to some combination of: QB play, receiving corps play, QB coaching, overall coordination of the offense. After looking at the play calling for the whole game, you get the sense that it started off with some kind of plan, but pretty quickly devolved into "let's try this, no that", and ultimately to "let's win with Tressel-ball": run 3x's, punt, and play defense - which won the game, but barely, and is not very good at inspiring confidence that anyone in charge of that side of the ball really knows what they want to do or how they want to do it.

Now, I just want to vent. I am pissed off beyond all reason about this QB situation. Could it be that the guy who the team voted to lead them as a captain might want that guy to lead them on offense? We are having problems distributing the ball to playmakers. Who had the best season in OSU history distributing the ball last year over 12 games? He is over on the sideline. We aren't being efficient on offense. Who was the most efficient QB in the B1G last year? He is wearing a headset. We need to score more TD's. A guy who produced 45 last year didn't even play Saturday. We aren't good running the ball from the QB position? The guy who ran for 1K and 11 TDs last year has been made a de-facto assistant coach. They changed the offense to fit Cardale so that they could do this power running/long passing offense, and Cardale has 5 TD's and 5 Int's. They put JT in to run the offense designed for Cardale, and he struggles too. Well, no wonder! Plus he is not getting the practice reps he would need to succeed when he has had an opportunity. Granting that I am getting paid 0 for what I know about football, and Urban is getting slightly more than that, I have to say that he picked the wrong guy to lead this offense, and I sense he feels he is at the point where he just has to ride it out for better or worse. He can't change the offense back in mid-season, so this dumpster fire is what we have: neither QB can run it well right now, but Cardale will have to get better - and he probably will, but it still makes me want to puke. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It wasn't broke last year, but they did try to fix it, and now all of us are going to have to live with it.

I was going to comment on this thread but after reading this much better researched and articulated post, I yield my time on the floor. You absolutely nailed it.
 
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i feel like i am waaaaay out of my paycode. but what if cardale simply "puckers up" (my phrase)...that at "that split second moment" he mentally freezes. bless UB for giving him the leash to work it out....but what if he never develops the "calm inside the storm" ?
 
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