2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[OSUK]

Pardon me if I didn't think JT's underwhelming performance out of the bullpen at the beginning of the season didn't help resolve the situation (a fact which Urban stated many times). Obviously, JT can't turn the ball over in the red zone like he did last night, but otherwise he performed brilliantly. Good for him.

It's been a bur in my butt all season when people would cite underwhelming performance as a justification for not starting the most efficient and productive QB in B1G and OSU history for a season. Absurd. As if a whole record setting season must be validated by being inserted cold into a game after being prepared with second team reps, and knowing your snaps are limited.

And yes, JT is human and won't play perfect. Thing is I think his team and fans have confidence that he will follow the mistakes with a slew of winning decisions. And that's a big reason he needs to be the man.

What we saw last night was a QB who ran Urban's offense last year as well as it has ever been run, operate it the best it has been ran this year. If that surprised anyone, they haven't been paying attention.

 

[buckeyesin07]

It's been a bur in my butt all season when people would cite underwhelming performance as a justification for not starting the most efficient and productive QB in B1G and OSU history for a season. Absurd. As if a whole record setting season must be validated by being inserted cold into a game after being prepared with second team reps, and knowing your snaps are limited.

Well, take the "bur" in your butt up with Urban who (1) made the decision to start Cardale and (2) said JT didn't win the job away when inserted for Cardale at several points at the beginning of the season.

Regardless, JT had the offense humming last night except for the red zone turnover and presumably has put this QB situation to rest. And Cardale led the team to an undefeated record during all the "sky is falling" nonsense that was abundant during the first seven games of the year.

In short, all is good. More than good.

 

[jlb1705]

It's been a bur in my butt all season when people would cite underwhelming performance as a justification for not starting the most efficient and productive QB in B1G and OSU history for a season. Absurd. As if a whole record setting season must be validated by being inserted cold into a game after being prepared with second team reps, and knowing your snaps are limited.

And yes, JT is human and won't play perfect. Thing is I think his team and fans have confidence that he will follow the mistakes with a slew of winning decisions. And that's a big reason he needs to be the man.

What we saw last night was a QB who ran Urban's offense last year as well as it has ever been run, operate it the best it has been ran this year. If that surprised anyone, they haven't been paying attention.

Well, JT Barrett himself cites underwhelming performance as the justification...

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...jt-barrett-starting-job-injury-history-102515

After the 49-7 win, the sophomore was asked if health had played a role in his inability to win the starting job away from Cardale Jones in the preseason or in September when Jones was pulled for ineffectiveness in back-to-back starts.

"No, I just didn’t play well," Barrett said. "It was simple as that. I didn’t play to the level I knew I was capable of playing. It’s all on me."

"I was trying to do too much," he said. "I came back and we’re the No. 1 team in the country and all these great things and high expectations and I was trying to do too much. I was forcing stuff and trying to make the big throw and the big run and things like that instead of letting the game come to me. I think that was one of the reasons I didn’t start."

Good on Barrett for finally relaxing a bit. Good on Urban Meyer for finding a creative way to bring that about. Most coaches wouldn't have tried the long-field/red zone platoon that jumpstarted Barrett's season. His re-emergence doesn't retroactively vindicate the idea that he had somehow earned the right to start in the season's early weeks though. This misplaced self-congratulatory stuff is really what's absurd. If you've been calling for Barrett to start for the last eight weeks, you've been wrong for the first six of those.

Citing the quality and quantity of his reps is a poor excuse for the way he was playing, and a tacit acknowledgment that he wasn't playing anywhere near his own lofty standard. The fact of the matter is that he got more and better opportunities than most players in a position battle get - he got a significant amount of first team reps in fall camp, he got first team game reps early in the season, and then he took over all of the red zone reps midseason. How many other second team players get those kind of opportunities? His past performance earned him those chances that most players wouldn't get. He still had to do something with them before earning the privilege of being the starter.

 

[bukIpower]

Well, JT Barrett himself cites underwhelming performance as the justification...

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...jt-barrett-starting-job-injury-history-102515





Good on Barrett for finally relaxing a bit. Good on Urban Meyer for finding a creative way to bring that about. Most coaches wouldn't have tried the long-field/red zone platoon that jumpstarted Barrett's season. His re-emergence doesn't retroactively vindicate the idea that he had somehow earned the right to start in the season's early weeks though. This misplaced self-congratulatory stuff is really what's absurd. If you've been calling for Barrett to start for the last eight weeks, you've been wrong for the first six of those.

Citing the quality and quantity of his reps is a poor excuse for the way he was playing, and a tacit acknowledgment that he wasn't playing anywhere near his own lofty standard. The fact of the matter is that he got more and better opportunities than most players in a position battle get - he got a significant amount of first team reps in fall camp, he got first team game reps early in the season, and then he took over all of the red zone reps midseason. How many other second team players get those kind of opportunities? His past performance earned him those chances that most players wouldn't get. He still had to do something with them before earning the privilege of being the starter.

You sort of answered your own question. He got that right this year by being the all time big ten leader (like, forever leader) with touchdowns in a season. What he did for our team last year and the records he broke you would be a idiot (Urban included) if he wasn't given a long hard look.

He earned every snap he got early in the season and i frankly thought it still wasn't enough snaps. It all doesn't matter because the end result is still JT as the starter.

I think JT is doing the grown up thing which is owning his early shortcomings. However it's ignorant to think that a healthy JT with more actual first team reps wouldnt have performed better early in the season.

I feel his injury was recovered but he was just so rusty due to the time off. You combine that with limited first team reps and you'll get what you saw early in the year which is a less than sharp JT.

Even Urban eluded to the fact that JT in training camp was still trying to get back into the groove of things. The thing with JT though is he would nevers make a excuse and make it seem as though he should've been starting.

 

[Dryden]

JTB was a counselor at the Elite 11 camp this summer and everybody raved about the way he was slinging it, including Trent Dilfer. Any rust he had I would attribute to both limited/split practice reps with this receiving corp and the revolving door at receiver because of injuries, not because JT was experiencing some lingering post-injury thing. Same thing could apply to Cardale too, though, in regards to the receivers.

In the first episode of Scarlet and Gray Days on BTN Tim Beck even stated very clearly during one of the drills he wanted JT to take most of the reps in preparation for Virginia Tech. All of that contributed to why I pegged JT as having secured the starting spot around mid-August.

In hindsight, Urban admitting they were splitting reps 50/50 all the way up to kickoff of the VT game should've been alarm bells. Still feel either guy would have been better prepared for success if a decision had been made from about Aug 1.

 

[bukIpower]

Yep for the most part I agree. I don't think JT was injured still but there's a difference in lobbing some throws at camp and hitting Michael Thomas on a slant with pressure in your face.

CJ had the split reps too but at least he had the last 3 games and all of spring as the sole starter. Either way I wouldnt doubt if JT keeps getting stronger as he gets more reps.

To me this time the debate is settled and there's no doubt who our guy is. Now we can go ahead at full steam and focus on everything else but the QB situation which can only help us get better.

 

[OSUK]

Well, take the "bur" in your butt up with Urban who (1) made the decision to start Cardale and (2) said JT didn't win the job away when inserted for Cardale at several points at the beginning of the season.

In short, all is good. More than good.

Yeah, Urban wasn't born of a virgin either.

You are right. All is well... since JT took over in the PSU game. Whether one sees that as Urban finally embracing the obvious or JT finally getting his act together is irrelevant.

I do have to say that the basis of my perspective is that JT always appears to handle all of his football and non football business well.

Well, JT Barrett himself cites underwhelming performance as the justification.
.

I don't doubt that the points you made are some part of this. For sure, if JT was overwhelming in practice and games he would have forced the change earlier. But the implied conclusion is that CJ was being less underwhelming. Not sure that meshes with what I saw.

I take JTs comments as being humble and sensitive to his teammate, backing his coach, and putting team first. It's not like he is going to come out and do anything else.

I think there has been a whole lot of deference directed toward Cardale ,probably for a lot of good reasons. But when years go by and we eventually hear how those on the inside really thought about this, I suspect it won't be much different than the varying things we have been discussing here.

 

[Buckeye Maniac]

It was Greene. Was one of his few mistakes in an otherwise impressive performance from the big man.

Nah, the fumble was caused when Barrett ran into Thomas. It was later that he ran into Greene and pushed him 5 yards down the field using him as a shield.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Nah, the fumble was caused when Barrett ran into Thomas. It was later that he ran into Greene and pushed him 5 yards down the field using him as a shield.

It was Thomas that he ran into on the fumble play. But running into Thomas didn't cause the fumble. If you look at the replay, JT runs into Thomas, which stops his forward momentum, but he still has the ball secure. He then gets hit by a Rutgers defender and still has the ball secure. Only when he gets hit by a second Rutgers defender does he fumble.

 

[matcar]

It was Thomas that he ran into on the fumble play. But running into Thomas didn't cause the fumble. If you look at the replay, JT runs into Thomas, which stops his forward momentum, but he still has the ball secure. He then gets hit by a Rutgers defender and still has the ball secure. Only when he gets hit by a second Rutgers defender does he fumble.

That's what I remember as well. It was the RU player hit and awkward fall that caused the fumble.

 

[Mariotwins]

It was Thomas that he ran into on the fumble play. But running into Thomas didn't cause the fumble. If you look at the replay, JT runs into Thomas, which stops his forward momentum, but he still has the ball secure. He then gets hit by a Rutgers defender and still has the ball secure. Only when he gets hit by a second Rutgers defender does he fumble.

If he didn't stop all forward momentum like that he wouldn't have been hit like that in the first place, at worst he would have only been taken down by one of those guys.

 

[buckeyesin07]

If he didn't stop all forward momentum like that he wouldn't have been hit like that in the first place, at worst he would have only been taken down by one of those guys.

Eh, it's football--sometimes the ref gets in the way, sometimes your own player gets in the way. It happens.

 

[Hetuck]

It's been a bur in my butt all season when people would cite underwhelming performance as a justification for not starting the most efficient and productive QB in B1G and OSU history for a season. Absurd. As if a whole record setting season must be validated by being inserted cold into a game after being prepared with second team reps, and knowing your snaps are limited.

And yes, JT is human and won't play perfect. Thing is I think his team and fans have confidence that he will follow the mistakes with a slew of winning decisions. And that's a big reason he needs to be the man.

What we saw last night was a QB who ran Urban's offense last year as well as it has ever been run, operate it the best it has been ran this year. If that surprised anyone, they haven't been paying attention.

Urban Meyer demands excellence. It's not good enough that Barrett played well last year. He's got to earn the job back this year. It's not good enough to "cite underwhelming performance as a justification not to start" someone? Did you really say that? Lol. Seriously? You'd make a heck of a coach with a motivational approach like that.

But seriously, that's exactly the reason Barrett wasn't starting. Urban has a responsibility to the team and every player on it. When Cardale threw two picks against NIU, Barrett had a chance to win the job back but he came in and played as poorly as Jones. What message does it send to Cardale if you reward Barrett for that performance? What does that say to JT? You don't make a player better by rewarding "underwhelming performance" especially when you punish another player for the same performance.

The way you make JT into the best QB he can be is to demand not that he play as well as he did in 2014. You demand that he play better. For most of the season he wasn't playing as well as he was in 2014. Urban always said that JT hadn't won the job back "yet." I think he always expected JT to win the job back but he wasn't going to just hand it to him. Urban did the right thing by making Barrett earn the job back. He'll be a better QB for it.

And he did right by Cardale. Cardale earned his shot and he got it. It didn't work out but he can't say he wasn't given a fair chance and now that the change has been made the results have been...whelming. The results speak for themselves. Everyone is on board and the team is firing on all cylinders as they head into November.

 

[matcar]

Eh, it's football--sometimes the ref gets in the way, sometimes your own player gets in the way. It happens.

Agreed. I love Barrett, totally back him, but that turnover is on him. Any guy carrying the ball has to navigate through defenders and use his blockers to his best advantage. And if you run into someone and use them as a blocker or if you run into him and bounce off, well that's just how things play out.

 

[OSUK]

Urban Meyer demands excellence. It's not good enough that Barrett played well last year. He's got to earn the job back this year. It's not good enough to "cite underwhelming performance as a justification not to start" someone? Did you really say that? Lol. Seriously? You'd make a heck of a coach with a motivational approach like that.

Did you really read that? Lol. Seriously?

If I did say that, you should be able to quote it and put it in bold. Clearly, that's what you interpreted, but not what I meant. I won't defend what your mind creates, particularly when you credit it to me. Reading comprehension fails us all at times.

After VT both QBs were underwhelming, but one of them had many, many more snaps to be underwhelming. It might occur to someone that since those many snaps produced an underwhelming result by the one guy, perhaps more snaps and the number 1 spot might produce an overwhelming result for the other guy - which it has. I hope no one thinks that last year's performance automatically qualifies a player for anything, but that applied to Cardale too. To me the main problem the offense had earlier was 3rd down efficiency. They couldn't move the chains and sustain drives. You can't blame people for saying, "Hey, wait a minute. That #16 guy was great at that last year."

The only way the point works that both were underwhelming is if they were given equal opportunity to produce that result. They clearly weren't, and most of Buckeye Nation, former Buckeye players, and almost every analyst were scratching their heads wondering why. The why of it is what I'm really interested in, but I think the full truth would be divisive team-wise and not in the best interest of Cardale. But if you read Vannett's comments, I think he gave up some of it.