2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[cincibuck]

Asking as someone who didn't coach football, have they pulled Cardale's right to pull the ball down and run? I can't understand how someone who played the long pass, short pass, run if necessary game so well in the biggest, toughest three games of 2014 can be so different at times this year. seems to be hesitant to run, seems to still be looking downfield when he has decided to use his feet and not going full tilt the way he did against Alabama and Oregon. Is he saving himself for the NFL?

 

[bukIpower]

My wife who had to ask why a extra point counts as 1 while a field goal counts as 3 put it best and most simplest on Saturday night while we watched the game.

She mentioned with CJ (the big guy)on pass plays he seems to hang onto the ball and then either throws it out of bounds or gets tackled for a loss. However with JT (the other guy) he will run for yards if no one is open. Honestly I looked at her and told her in its simplest form you couldn't be more correct. She noted that there's just a lot of plays with zero or negative yards..

I think it's hard for some of us to see CJ benched because of what he did last year, and as much as UFM wanted to go more pro style with CJ lobbing bombs he has seen that just isn't our strength offensively. It's not CJ'S fault we from a personnel standpoint cannot play to his strengths.

We have a great WR in Thomas but he's not a deep threat and while our other guys are fast none of them have shown the ability to replace even 50% of Devine Smiths abilities. Right now this team has a dominant offensive line, 3-5 running backs (I count Braxton/marshall/Samuel), two solid tight ends and a QB who is flawless running the read option.

12 for 12 the last two games with 11 of those being with JT under center. Even the biggest CJ supporters (that's you buckeyesin07) have to admit that the coincided return of the read option and our recent dominance is not a coincidence.

 

[OSUK]

It's not like Cardale hasn't been doing good things out there. You can't put his inaccurate throws last Saturday on the coaching staff, those same throws were spot on against Maryland. The coaching staff is trying to find the best way to win, and isn't just going to make snap decisions based on a few series in one game. Now that we have a bigger sample size of games, maybe they have more to go on. But it makes perfect sense to me why the coaching staff has done what they have done to this point. I don't think it's saving face or about wanting to be right. I think they just want to do what is best for these young men and what is best for the team as a whole. They couldn't care less, and shouldn't, about what is best for the fans.

It's not like he has been doing great things either. No one is talking about him in terms of the Heisman discussion or even in terms of the best QBs out there, or even the best QBs in the B1G. The Maryland defensive front 7 does not equal the Penn State front 7. And remember, he wasn't allowed to finish any drives, save one - because he had been ineffective prior. I think his stats against Md are a case where the numbers are deceptive.

While there are tons of people who like to complicate the simple, and there are some complicated aspects, there are still a few simple things about successful offensive football. One of them is when it's 3rd down and 6-8, your QB has to throw an accurate, catchable pass for 7-9 yards to move the chains. If you watch Cardale for most of the year, he has not been able to accomplish that on a consistent basis, particularly against the better defensive fronts, and, often, against weaker fronts. Backing up from that, you have to consider what he is doing on 1st and 2nd down in terms of option plays that are called or short to intermediate passing. The jury is not out on this. He is not making good enough decisions to put his team in position to move the chains on 3rd down. What has been driving many of us crazy for 6 1/2 games is that we had a guy over on the sideline who PROVED last year that he could make the right decisions and move the chains! And for that reason, IT MAKES NO SENSE to keep trotting the other guy out there to continue to not move the chains!

I have no doubt that the coaching staff had a vision of what the offense could be by being led by Cardale. That vision has not been able to be executed - no matter who's fault it is. The question is whether there is sufficient evidence to prompt a change in vision, and who is executing it, or not? Obviously, I think the answer is clear - and I'm not buying any claim it isn't. What the particular motivations of the coaching staff are is speculation, but stubbornness is on the short list.

 

[buckeyesin07]

My wife who had to ask why a extra point counts as 1 while a field goal counts as 3 put it best and most simplest on Saturday night while we watched the game.

She mentioned with CJ (the big guy)on pass plays he seems to hang onto the ball and then either throws it out of bounds or gets tackled for a loss. However with JT (the other guy) he will run for yards if no one is open. Honestly I looked at her and told her in its simplest form you couldn't be more correct. She noted that there's just a lot of plays with zero or negative yards..

I think it's hard for some of us to see CJ benched because of what he did last year, and as much as UFM wanted to go more pro style with CJ lobbing bombs he has seen that just isn't our strength offensively. It's not CJ'S fault we from a personnel standpoint cannot play to his strengths.

We have a great WR in Thomas but he's not a deep threat and while our other guys are fast none of them have shown the ability to replace even 50% of Devine Smiths abilities. Right now this team has a dominant offensive line, 3-5 running backs (I count Braxton/marshall/Samuel), two solid tight ends and a QB who is flawless running the read option.

12 for 12 the last two games with 11 of those being with JT under center. Even the biggest CJ supporters (that's you buckeyesin07) have to admit that the coincided return of the read option and our recent dominance is not a coincidence.

Well, since I heard my name... If you had bothered to read my posts for what they say instead of what, in your zeal to trumpet JT, you think they say, you'd see that I have said all along that Cardale's performance hasn't been great at times this year; yet, when JT got a chance this season, he didn't seize the opportunity. Instead, he played badly too. And I think there is some significant "backup QB being the most popular guy in town" going on around BP among the JT supporters; every time Cardale does something wrong, the JT supporters think, "JT could've made that play," when, in fact, he makes mistakes too. The bolded portion of your post above is a prime example of the ridiculous-at-times views that some around here have of JT--by your own words, he's "flawless."

Cardale was off throwing the ball against PSU, no doubt. But that's one game removed from him grading out as a champion, I'll remind everyone. That said, the offense (primarily the running game--JT threw for only 30 yards against PSU) moved well with JT at the helm against PSU. As I posted above, I really wish JT would've gotten more throws in the PSU game, so we could see if he turned the corner on his early-season issues and this QB "controversy" can be settled once and for all. Unfortunately, he did not. If Urban thinks JT's shown enough to be the leader, by all means it'll be something I'd support. But either way this turns out, there's not an outcome where I'd be thinking Urban Meyer's lost his mind and no longer knows anything about football. Unfathomably, some on this board evidently hold that view.

 

[osubartender23]

Well, since I heard my name... If you had bothered to read my posts for what they say instead of what, in your zeal to trumpet JT, you think they say, you'd see that I have said all along that Cardale's performance hasn't been great at times this year; yet, when JT got a chance this season, he didn't seize the opportunity.

After the performance JT has put on in the red zone these last 2 weeks and the fact that the Offense was effective with him at the helm in the Penn State game, I think that should be more than enough for him to seize the opportunity.

Cardale was off throwing the ball against PSU, no doubt. But that's one game removed from him grading out as a champion, I'll remind everyone. .

Cardale hasn't just been off throwing the ball for one game. He has had troubles with accuracy and consistency throughout the year. This isn't just a one game sample that people are using, its been happening in multiple games.

That said, the offense (primarily the running game--JT threw for only 30 yards against PSU) moved well with JT at the helm against PSU. As I posted above, I really wish JT would've gotten more throws in the PSU game, so we could see if he turned the corner on his early-season issues and this QB "controversy" can be settled once and for all. Unfortunately, he did not. If Urban thinks JT's shown enough to be the leader, by all means it'll be something I'd support. But either way this turns out, there's not an outcome where I'd be thinking Urban Meyer's lost his mind and no longer knows anything about football. Unfathomably, some on this board evidently hold that view.

JT didn't need to throw the ball in the PSU game for the Offense to be able to move and be effective. Cardale has to throw the ball when he is in there to have the Offense move, big difference. Every once in awhile EZE can break a long run, but without Cardale completing passes this offense is much less effective. JT makes the defense account for another weapon which throughout the game, will open up the passing game and allow him to throw more if necessary. I am not Urban but you would have to think that he KNOWS that JT is a leader. JT has shown more than enough to be a leader. This is why he was elected Captain, he proved last year that he could put the team on his back and carry them if necessary and so far this year he has shown that he is a team player and not a "me" first player which is also proof of being a leader. People don't think that Urban has lost his mind and doesn't know anything about football, to say that is incredibly far fetched. Are the decisions that Urban makes not up for criticism? He is a great coach but he is not beyond questioning, no one is. Whoever the QB is will have my support but if you are looking for someone who makes the team more efficient and who seems to be able to make things happen on a more frequent basis, then JT has to be the guy.

 

[OSUK]

Well, since I heard my name... If you had bothered to read my posts for what they say instead of what, in your zeal to trumpet JT, you think they say, you'd see that I have said all along that Cardale's performance hasn't been great at times this year; yet, when JT got a chance this season, he didn't seize the opportunity. Instead, he played badly too. And I think there is some significant "backup QB being the most popular guy in town" going on around BP among the JT supporters; every time Cardale does something wrong, the JT supporters think, "JT could've made that play," when, in fact, he makes mistakes too. The bolded portion of your post above is a prime example of the ridiculous-at-times views that some around here have of JT--by your own words, he's "flawless."

Cardale was off throwing the ball against PSU, no doubt. But that's one game removed from him grading out as a champion, I'll remind everyone. That said, the offense (primarily the running game--JT threw for only 30 yards against PSU) moved well with JT at the helm against PSU. As I posted above, I really wish JT would've gotten more throws in the PSU game, so we could see if he turned the corner on his early-season issues and this QB "controversy" can be settled once and for all. Unfortunately, he did not. If Urban thinks JT's shown enough to be the leader, by all means it'll be something I'd support. But either way this turns out, there's not an outcome where I'd be thinking Urban Meyer's lost his mind and no longer knows anything about football. Unfathomably, some on this board evidently hold that view.

I would only add that you left out some factors that figure into the context of the picture you painted. One is the reps the starter gets over the other guy. The second is the fact that JT was not running the offense he was so good at last year, but was running an offense designed for Cardale. If you recall, Urban said a few weeks ago, "That zone read option is gone. We are not doing that anymore." What was the prime element of JT's tremendous performance in the redzone vs. Md and overall against Penn State? The zone read option. So, the coaches have clearly already gone back to something that they had discarded in order to use JT's abilities, and when you put JT in an offense that maximizes his best attributes, he looks like the same butt-kicking, Heisman finalist he was last year. In the end, your point is that JT didn't look good in an offensive system designed to fit another guy. No surprise.

 

[bukIpower]

Couldn't have said it better 23. Cardale, if he's not accurate is of no benefit to our offense. Yes I think he played well against Maryland and Indiana (sans the pick) but as the last poster just lamented JT doesn't need to throw the ball for our offense to move the ball at the bare minimum.

If you go back last week buckeyesin07 you would see i don't mind the dual QB situation that we have. I understand CJ has the ability to stretch a defense vertically but my mind of thought is only true if Cardale is accurate/explosive delivering the football. If he cannot take the top off the defense and use his assets then there isn't much point to roll with him. Like I mentioned this isn't something that's all on CJ as I do not think we have the skill sets out wide to challenge teams the way Devin did. Thats not Cardales fault but I'm more confident in JT'S abilities to be consistent week in and week out with the zone read than I am in Cardales abilities to be accurate and explosive consistently in the throw game. I think JT can do what Cardale does but I do not think Cardale can replicate what JT does if that makes sense.

If we roll with CJ unlike last time he was named starter I won't be baffled because I see the benefit of CJ. However if JT is the starter now I do feel that would be the best move.

 

[bukIpower]

I would only add that you left out some factors that figure into the context of the picture you painted. One is the reps the starter gets over the other guy. The second is the fact that JT was not running the offense he was so good at last year, but was running an offense designed for Cardale. If you recall, Urban said a few weeks ago, "That zone read option is gone. We are not doing that anymore." What was the prime element of JT's tremendous performance in the redzone vs. Md and overall against Penn State? The zone read option. So, the coaches have clearly already gone back to something that they had discarded in order to use JT's abilities, and when you put JT in an offense that maximizes his best attributes, he looks like the same butt-kicking, Heisman finalist he was last year. In the end, your point is that JT didn't look good in an offensive system designed to fit another guy. No surprise.

Never thought of that and that's a good point as well. Like I said a few posts back I don't think it's any coincidence that we have been very good offensively the past two games (especially in the red zone) and the zone read has now been back for two weeks.

 

[TooTall]

My biggest issue with Cardale is he still hasn't grasped that in certain situations, you can't fire laser beams to the receivers. I know that there are times when there is a very small window to throw in, and firing a bullet in there is the only option. But it's almost like he has tunnel vision and his only option ever is to rifle the bullets no matter how open the receiver is.

 

[OSUK]

Never thought of that and that's a good point as well. Like I said a few posts back I don't think it's any coincidence that we have been very good offensively the past two games (especially in the red zone) and the zone read has now been back for two weeks.

You make Ohio State easier to defend when the defense knows where the QB is going to be and when you are not scared of him running the football instead of handing it off. This isn't rocket science. The question with what the coaches decided to roll with was: Are we gaining something with the long ball/power running that negates what we are losing by discarding the zone read/short passing offense? The results of the last few weeks indicate that the answer is "NO".

 

[SloopyHangOn]

My guess is that over the last two weeks JT has been getting more reps in practice.

There were a couple of plays in the PSU game, namely the bootleg to Samuel in the red zone and the fade to Mike for a TD, that are throws that Cardale has shown he hasn't been able to make this season. Regardless of whether or not JT was making huge plays or racking up big yards in the passing game, it's the fact that there are simply plays he makes that Cardale has shown an inability to that lobbies for him to be the guy.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

My guess is that over the last two weeks JT has been getting more reps in practice.

There were a couple of plays in the PSU game, namely the bootleg to Samuel in the red zone and the fade to Mike for a TD, that are throws that Cardale has shown he hasn't been able to make this season. Regardless of whether or not JT was making huge plays or racking up big yards in the passing game, it's the fact that there are simply plays he makes that Cardale has shown an inability to that lobbies for him to be the guy.

And not picking sides, but I don't think the play to Samuel is an option when CJ is in the game. The threat of the Q run I think opens up the wheel route like that, no?

 

[OSUK]

And not picking sides, but I don't think the play to Samuel is an option when CJ is in the game. The threat of the Q run I think opens up the wheel route like that, no?

Yes - and a lot more than that.

 

[ScriptOhio]

Two-Minute Drill: Updates from Urban Meyer's Oct 19 Press Luncheon

Urban Meyer Updates

+ Meyer said he thinks he knows who will be starting at quarterback on Saturday. "I have an idea."

+ Asked if he thinks the offense runs better with Barrett in this season he said he thinks it ran better with Barrett on Saturday.

+ Meyer on the quarterback situation: "If there's a change it's always delicate. That one's probably more because of the obvious." "We're going to do what's right for the team first."

+ A lot goes into choosing a quarterback, including the spark that they provide when they are in the game.

+ There is a feeling that two quarterbacks makes like more difficult on a defense, but they'll talk about that more this week.

+ On if J.T. Barrett is finding the groove that he had last year, Meyer said he thinks he is seeing that. Plus they are doing a good job of calling what he is good at.

Entire article: http://theozone.net/Ohio-State/Foot...-from-Urban-Meyers-Oct-19-Press-Luncheon-2015

Urban Meyer's Quarterback Decision Will Come the Right Way

When you ask any of the Ohio State players not named Cardale Jones or J.T. Barrett who should be the Buckeyes’ starting quarterback, you get one of two generic answers.

The first is usually something along the line of, “It doesn’t matter to me who plays as long as we’re moving the ball and scoring touchdowns.”

The other is the classic, “That’s not up to me. That’s Coach’s decision.”

Even Barrett, who started 12 games last year and set team and Big Ten records, won’t promote himself as the starter.

“I’m just trying to help the team win whether that’s going in in the red zone or the starting quarterback,” Barrett said. “I don’t think it really matters.”

After completing all four his pass attempts, two for touchdowns, and rushing for 102 yards and two more scores against Penn State, the questions again emerged as to who would be OSU’s starter when they take the field Saturday night against Rutgers.

If it’s Meyer’s decision, he’s not telling… yet.

“About the quarterback issue, nothing's going to be announced right now,” Meyer said before any media member could ask.

“I'll address that at a later date.”
.
.
.

“If there's a change, it's always delicate,” Meyer said. “That one is probably more because of the obvious."

“It's not number – what is it? Number 16 and Number 12. Those are people, and those are people we care about deeply.”

While taking the starting job from Jones might make some fans happy, it would be a disappointment to the player who won the national championship and returned to Ohio State to start and improve. This is something Meyer has to keep in mind.

Ultimately, the head coach is going to do what’s best for his team to win but he wants to handle the situation correctly. After not leaving Ohio Stadium until the early hours of Sunday morning and meeting with recruits the rest of the day, Meyer has not had the time to talk to those involved.

“I have not had a chance to sit down with the quarterbacks formally and review everything,” he explained.

“But to all involved and to the staff, it's been – when you meet with six, seven recruits during the day yesterday, and then we have practice and all that, just didn't have time.”

No decision yet, but after Saturday, does Meyer know who will start going forward?

“I have an idea,” he admitted. “But I want to make sure I visit with everybody and make sure we're doing the right thing.”

Entire article: http://theozone.net/Ohio-State/Foot...-Quarterback-Decision-Will-Come-the-Right-Way

 

[Hstead]

I said this last year, even though buckeyesin07 believes I just joined yesterday evidently to run over here and claim Cardale "sucked" when I clearly said "sucked that day", but let's not let anything stop him from putting words in peoples mouths and then lecturing others for doing so, JT opens up the running game more for Zeke IMO because he can take a defender out of the box with the option. It is a fairly tale that Cardale's "big arm" and deep threat opened up the run last year and Urban himself confirmed that. Look at what defenses have done this year, they have dared Cardale to throw it downfield and have loaded the box to stop the run. Urban's idea to combat the extra hat in the box the first few games was to use Zeke as a blocker and run the QB lead. How did that work for us? We also ran some option with Cardale, and how did that work out? Teams let Cardale run the ball and take away either Zeke or the pitch man and they know Cardale cannot hurt them. It just didn't work.