2010 Big Ten-ACC Challenge

[LitlBuck]

KSU has average guard play...one dimensional team IMO...definately not well rounded like Douche.

Sorry that I am late to the party but 2002 you are way over your head in trying to debate 22 when it comes to basketball. There are some people on this board who are very well-rounded when it comes to basketball and 22 is one of them.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

Or Sparty could have not been losing and forced to foul at the end... 14 FT attempts for Duke, 0 for MSU in the final 2 minutes...

nit-picking here but msu didn't start purposely fouling until 1:15, which excludes 2 duke free throws. duke effectively shot 11 more (26 to 15). a differential of 11 in and of itself is not conclusive. as mentioned, had msu not been so careless with the ball, they likely would have gotten to the charity stripe more times.

 

[brutus2002]

Sorry that I am late to the party but 2002 you are way over your head in trying to debate 22 when it comes to basketball. There are some people on this board who are very well-rounded when it comes to basketball and 22 is one of them.

Oh I'll argue on this topic. Anybody that doesn't want to see that Duke gets preferential treatment when it comes to officiating and seeding in the NCAA tournament are flat out blind...

There is more than one person on her agreeing with me about the fouls...Like the previous poster said..they really didn't start fouling until the 1:15 mark...When the home teams has a 24 free throw advantage its hard to beat a team on the road...

AND YES MSU BEATS THEM ON A NUETRAL COURT LAST NIGHT.

As far as KSU...They don't have any 3 point shooters that would scare me...Saw them against VT and Douche...Well balanced teams will roll KSU. The are a slightly better version of FSU/VT.

Irving went into the lane numerous times out of control and should have been called for traveling at least 3 times...how do you call fouls on a kid driving out of control...If your under control its one thing but it was horrible officiating.

Sherman tore their big's apart last night...absolutely killed them...they are vulnerable down low.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

There is more than one person on her agreeing with me about the fouls...Like the previous poster said..they really didn't start fouling until the 1:15 mark...When the home teams has a 24 free throw advantage its hard to beat a team on the road...

stating that duke had a 23-free throw advantage (not 24) is an inaccurate portrayal. because michgian state deliberately fouled duke at the end, one must exclude the free throws from the final 75 seconds. furthermore, msu missed the the front end of one 1-and-1, while duke did not. if we exclude the final 12 free throws and give msu another attempt (due to missed front end), the differential is 10 free throws to duke's advantage. finally, if msu had committed the same number of turnovers as duke, the spartans would have had more opportunities to collect fouls and, therefore, shoot free throws.

Sherman tore their big's apart last night...absolutely killed them...they are vulnerable down low.

sherman did not "kill" duke's interior. he had a fine game with 8 points and 5 rebounds in just over 20 minutes, but he did not dominate the interior. i do agree, though, that duke is vulnerable down low. if mason plumlee is limited or put into foul trouble, the blue devils can be exploited. we have the same issue. if sullinger is limited or put into foul trouble, the buckeyes can be exploited; although, miles plumlee is a little more offensively advanced than lauderdale is.

i think duke has a slight edge on ohio state. each position is comparable until you get to the point guard position. craft is dependable with a ceiling well above his head, but irving is a phenom.

 

[buckeyesin07]

As a basketball coach myself, if you aren't working the refs, you're not trying... All of them do it at every level.

I have no problem with "working the refs." I have a problem with this:

Ref asks him what he wants, a full or a 30? K's response: "I want a [censored]ing call!"

which is a classless statement by a guy whose team seemingly gets the majority of the calls in any given game.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Jacob Pullen average??

Average? No. Overrated? Oh, [censored] yeah. The preseason All-American PG was rendered helpless by a true frosh.

 

[OSUBucks22]

Average? No. Overrated? Oh, [censored] yeah. The preseason All-American PG was rendered helpless by a true frosh.

A true frosh that is/will be in the talk for NPOY...

Hey, on your other comment about K... Is it the language that bothers you? Because Matta's no choir boy either... Either is Pitino, Calipari, Izzo, Brian Gregory, etc... ALL of them let many expletives fly at refs, players, etc. during the course of a game...

 

[MaxBuck]

Anybody that doesn't want to see that Duke gets preferential treatment when it comes to officiating and seeding in the NCAA tournament are flat out blind...

I agree.

Oh, either blind, or they don't hate Duke like they hate the young man who stole their daughter's virginity.

I'm not clear on why people hate Duke so much, but then I'm not clear on why people hate Buckeyes football so much either. Maybe the relentless excellence has something to do with it. (And yes, Buckeye basketball is nearing the same level as well.)

With respect to Jacob Pullen, I think Kyrie Irving is twice the player Pullen is. The Knight kid at Kentucky ain't bad, either. Some fine point guard play in the NCAA this season, and in case anyone missed it, the ESPN crew had lots of good things to say about Aaron Craft at the point. So we Buckeye fans don't need to feel left out of the discussion.

 

[Jake]

I know we already have an "I really hate Duke" thread because I use it frequently. Seems like the last couple pages of this thread belonged there.

 

[brutus2002]

I agree.

Oh, either blind, or they don't hate Duke like they hate the young man who stole their daughter's virginity.

I'm not clear on why people hate Duke so much, but then I'm not clear on why people hate Buckeyes football so much either. Maybe the relentless excellence has something to do with it. (And yes, Buckeye basketball is nearing the same level as well.)

With respect to Jacob Pullen, I think Kyrie Irving is twice the player Pullen is. The Knight kid at Kentucky ain't bad, either. Some fine point guard play in the NCAA this season, and in case anyone missed it, the ESPN crew had lots of good things to say about Aaron Craft at the point. So we Buckeye fans don't need to feel left out of the discussion.

The one thing that I can say good about Duke is I have rarely seen them not play hard. I have rarely heard of their players not being good students or samaritans. I think coach K is a good coach. I used to actually root for Duke.

The problem I have is they always seem to get preferential treatment from the refs and the selection committee. I understand how they rank the seeds and such but it always seems they get an easy road to the elite eight.

Bob Knight said this year that too many pencilnecks that never coached or played basketball have too much too do with the selection process. I do realize Duke is a cashcow in basketball much like OSU is in football. At the end of the day the NCAA wants teams like Duke and Kansas to make the Final 4...it draws viewers.

At the end of the day its about $$$

As far as the discussion goes about the MSU game. IMO MSU beats them on a nuetral floor. IMO the are vulnerable down low and definately can be beat. I haven't seen Pitt or Villanova play but IMO the B10 has 6 of the top 25 teams. IMO NW should be in the top 25...the B10 has a shot at 2 final four teams and maybe a B10/B10 matchup in the NCG.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Hey, on your other comment about K... Is it the language that bothers you?

It's a combination of the verbal language and the body language/temper tantrums.

Because Matta's no choir boy either...

I watch a lot of Duke games on TV, and watch every OSU game on TV that I don't go to, and I see way, way more inappropriate behavior out of Coach K than I see out of Matta. It's not even close.

Matta doesn't embarrass me as an OSU fan. I'd be embarrassed by Coach K's antics if I were a Duke fan.

Either is Pitino, Calipari, Izzo, Brian Gregory, etc... ALL of them let many expletives fly at refs, players, etc. during the course of a game...

While I watch a lot of college basketball, I admittedly don't watch enough of those games to comment on whether those coaches act childishly as frequently as Coach K does. But even if those coaches you mention do act like Coach K, that doesn't excuse their behavior, does it? Isn't it just as ridiculous whether you can find a certain subset of coaches who also act like children on the sidelines?


But the larger point is that none of those coaches should treat officials the way Coach K does, especially not as often as Coach K does. And it particularly irks me when I hear Dick Vitale (and others, but mostly Vitale) laud Coach K for being some kind of gentleman. He may be a great guy off the court, I have no idea, but his antics on the court take him squarely out of being a gentleman (or even a decent person) in my book.

 

[OSUBucks22]

It's a combination of the verbal language and the body language/temper tantrums.



I watch a lot of Duke games on TV, and watch every OSU game on TV that I don't go to, and I see way, way more inappropriate behavior out of Coach K than I see out of Matta. It's not even close.

Matta doesn't embarrass me as an OSU fan. I'd be embarrassed by Coach K's antics if I were a Duke fan.




While I watch a lot of college basketball, I admittedly don't watch enough of those games to comment on whether those coaches act childishly as frequently as Coach K does. But even if those coaches you mention do act like Coach K, that doesn't excuse their behavior, does it? Isn't it just as ridiculous whether you can find a certain subset of coaches who also act like children on the sidelines?


But the larger point is that none of those coaches should treat officials the way Coach K does, especially not as often as Coach K does. And it particularly irks me when I hear Dick Vitale (and others, but mostly Vitale) laud Coach K for being some kind of gentleman. He may be a great guy off the court, I have no idea, but his antics on the court take him squarely out of being a gentleman (or even a decent person) in my book.

What about in the B-10 tourney when Matta wanted to go after UM fans? That wasn't embarrassing?

I don't find anything coaches do short of throwing chairs "un-gentlemanly"... Their job is to win games and put their teams in position to win... Plain and simple. There isn't time-out for tea and crumpets. They're not being ranked on their niceness. The NCAA doesn't have a gentleman wild-card bid to the tourney.

Fact is it's all a matter of your opinion on it. I will tell you that there is not a more respected basketball coach over all levels than Coach K. Players, coaches, execs, and even referees. All of them respect the hell out of him as a man and as a coach.

 

[OSUBucks22]

The problem I have is they always seem to get preferential treatment from the refs and the selection committee. I understand how they rank the seeds and such but it always seems they get an easy road to the elite eight.

Bob Knight said this year that too many pencilnecks that never coached or played basketball have too much too do with the selection process. I do realize Duke is a cashcow in basketball much like OSU is in football. At the end of the day the NCAA wants teams like Duke and Kansas to make the Final 4...it draws viewers.

At the end of the day its about $$$.

Those are thinly veiled arguments though and highly subjective. Duke doesn't ever get more calls than UNC, MSU, Kansas, UConn, OSU over the course of an entire season. To act like they and only they benefit from preferential treatment is silly.

The seeding is done by different people every year. To think there is an initiative to give Duke higher seeds and easier brackets is again silly. What about the years before this last one where Duke drew a #2 or other seed where the 2nd round match-ups were CLEARLY mismatches? WVU comes to mind... The year they lost to VCU most saw that coming. That was a tough VCU team that got a low seed at 11. Was that preferential?

Sometimes I don't think people think about their hate arguments against Duke and spit out the same old rhetoric (just like when people hate on Buckeye football)...

 

[buckeyesin07]

What about in the B-10 tourney when Matta wanted to go after UM fans? That wasn't embarrassing?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. What do you mean "wanted to go after?" I'm interested in hearing more--do you have a link to a story or anything?

I don't find anything coaches do short of throwing chairs "un-gentlemanly"... Their job is to win games and put their teams in position to win... Plain and simple. There isn't time-out for tea and crumpets. They're not being ranked on their niceness. The NCAA doesn't have a gentleman wild-card bid to the tourney.

Fact is it's all a matter of your opinion on it.

Bingo. You may think "there isn't time-out for tea and crumpets," and I may think that you can be a phenomenal coach without stomping around like a two year old and swearing at referees and generally treating them like trash.

But you're right--at the end of the day, it's a matter of opinion.

I will tell you that there is not a more respected basketball coach over all levels than Coach K. Players, coaches, execs, and even referees. All of them respect the hell out of him as a man and as a coach.

...and I will tell you that I've been around a ton of people (people in basketball and people who have no idea what a basketball is) who have seen the way he acts on the court and who can't believe that he would treat another person the way he does.

I get it that you're a Duke fan (and I'm sure that you get it that I'm not), but you clearly don't need to act like Coach K does in order to be a successful coach.

 

[OSUBucks22]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. What do you mean "wanted to go after?" I'm interested in hearing more--do you have a link to a story or anything?

Here you go... After Turner hit the winner vs. UM last year (about the 1:15 mark):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQjYFXaRh5w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQjYFXaRh5w[/ame]