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2010 Big Ten-ACC Challenge

Watch a game and you'll see it.
Look at last year's bracket and you'll see it.

You need to remove something first, though.
41kpc8DAyGL.jpg
 
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BuckeyeNation27;1826543; said:
Watch a game and you'll see it.
Look at last year's bracket and you'll see it.

You need to remove something first, though.
41kpc8DAyGL.jpg

See, I'm a very rational and level headed person, yet I've still never seen it. So produce something tangible if you intend to "open my eyes".

Did Duke not have to beat the top #3 seed in what amounted to a home game last year? What about the toughest #2 seed in the final 4?

Again, did they get preferential seeding when drawing a VCU team in the 1st round that was ranked during that season and should have been higher? What about when they were set up with a potential 2nd round match-up with a WVU team that was clearly a mismatch? Or let's go back to the 90's when a Sr. Grant Hill had to meet a Cal team that was stacked with Lamond Murray and Jason Kidd in the 2nd round?

Again, perception is everything with Duke... You either like them or hate them... There's very little rational middle ground with most fans.
 
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OSUBucks22;1826502; said:
I don't get the name calling, just trying to have a discussion and relay my point... Sorry if that ticks you off.

Can you provide me with some evidence of these accusations though? Show me proof of preferential seeding? What about showing me figures compared to other schools on the foul calls? I'm interested. Otherwise, I don't think you know of what you speak.

Yes, I'm a Duke fan. I'm also a Dayton Flyers fan and an OSU fan. I root for OSU b-ball vs. everyone but Dayton and Duke. But I also like to believe I'm an unbiased sports fan. I'm sure when people spout this stuff about OSU football you're one of the first to run and defend and say it's nonsense. So what say we have some consistency in our arguments?

I think it's very subjective, but the seeding last year was also very helpful for Duke. It's hard to definitively prove that Duke was given an advantage in their seeding, when comparing 8 seeds, 4 seeds, etc. from different brackets. But the teams in their bracket were all teams that Duke matched up extremely well with. Meaning less athletic teams that would be able to exploit the John Scheyer's, Zoubek's, etc. I don't feel like searching down the tournament bracket, I just remember seeing Duke's path and feeling like the selection committee made it extremely easy for them. You're right though, that VCU team was a difficult match-up, although Duke losing in the second round probably wasn't good for the tournament from a financial stand-point.

And working over referees is certainly a part of the game. It is necessary to lobby for calls and make the official feel like he is giving the opponenet an unfair advantage. It's part of the reason I hated having Bobby Bowden on the sidelines at FSU for so long...the guy can;t see the game and he's lobbying for calls. It was embarrassing to watch and you know he had no influence on officials whatsoever.

But Coach K is an absolute bully. And he's been called on it for years. He uses his stature as the best coach in the country to berate officials and belittle them. Not to mention, many people sense his relationship with the head of the officiating in the ACC leaves him a lot of extra wiggle-room.

And I don't feel like digging to deep into past articles, but I do recall an article from several years back showing calls in Cameron for Duke vs. when they are on the road and the disparity was rather large. It may even be in this thread somewhere, maybe when I have more time I'll dig around.

I certainly recall a game from Cameron when I was a student at FSU, where Alexander Johnson was absolutely treated like garbage, ejected from the game, and the officials absolutely stole a game from FSU. I feel like officiating has balanced out somewhat after a lot of backlash from the rest of the conference in terms of home cooking for the Dukies. I don't think it's just rehashed hyperbole either. Don't forget Coach K came into the ACC accusing UNC of getting preferential treatment. The tables have now turned...so be it. Just don't expect fans not to notice.
 
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billmac91;1826549; said:
I think it's very subjective, but the seeding last year was also very helpful for Duke. It's hard to definitively prove that Duke was given an advantage in their seeding, when comparing 8 seeds, 4 seeds, etc. from different brackets. But the teams in their bracket were all teams that Duke matched up extremely well with. Meaning less athletic teams that would be able to exploit the John Scheyer's, Zoubek's, etc. I don't feel like searching down the tournament bracket, I just remember seeing Duke's path and feeling like the selection committee made it extremely easy for them. You're right though, that VCU team was a difficult match-up, although Duke losing in the second round probably wasn't good for the tournament from a financial stand-point.

And working over referees is certainly a part of the game. It is necessary to lobby for calls and make the official feel like he is giving the opponenet an unfair advantage. It's part of the reason I hated having Bobby Bowden on the sidelines at FSU for so long...the guy can;t see the game and he's lobbying for calls. It was embarrassing to watch and you know he had no influence on officials whatsoever.

But Coach K is an absolute bully. And he's been called on it for years. He uses his stature as the best coach in the country to berate officials and belittle them. Not to mention, many people sense his relationship with the head of the officiating in the ACC leaves him a lot of extra wiggle-room.

And I don't feel like digging to deep into past articles, but I do recall an article from several years back showing calls in Cameron for Duke vs. when they are on the road and the disparity was rather large. It may even be in this thread somewhere, maybe when I have more time I'll dig around.

I certainly recall a game from Cameron when I was a student at FSU, where Alexander Johnson was absolutely treated like garbage, ejected from the game, and the officials absolutely stole a game from FSU. I feel like officiating has balanced out somewhat after a lot of backlash from the rest of the conference in terms of home cooking for the Dukies. I don't think it's just rehashed hyperbole either. Don't forget Coach K came into the ACC accusing UNC of getting preferential treatment. The tables have now turned...so be it. Just don't expect fans not to notice.

Baylor was a ton more athletic than Duke AND the game was in Houston, only 2 hours+ from Baylor's campus... WVU was a tough match-up in the final 4 too, and Duke beat them handily.

Duke, like most teams, probably does get more calls at home... My buddy that I share season tickets to the Flyers with put together the numbers for Dayton the last few years, and they got more fouls called at home vs. on the road too. Quite a few more. The refs are human and are influenced some by environment just like anyone else can be.

The officials have the ability to give K a technical if they feel he crosses the line. They also have the ability to not let him influence them in any way. So don't be mad at someone working the system, be mad at the system that allows it to happen...
 
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OSUBucks22;1826547; said:
See, I'm a very rational and level headed person, yet I've still never seen it. So produce something tangible if you intend to "open my eyes".

Did Duke not have to beat the top #3 seed in what amounted to a home game last year? What about the toughest #2 seed in the final 4?

Again, did they get preferential seeding when drawing a VCU team in the 1st round that was ranked during that season and should have been higher? What about when they were set up with a potential 2nd round match-up with a WVU team that was clearly a mismatch? Or let's go back to the 90's when a Sr. Grant Hill had to meet a Cal team that was stacked with Lamond Murray and Jason Kidd in the 2nd round?

Again, perception is everything with Duke... You either like them or hate them... There's very little rational middle ground with most fans.

Last year, for their second round game they were getting an extremely unathletic Louisville squad or Cal. While on the surface you can say those are both fair 8 and 9 seeded teams, it's that they both gave Duke an extremely positive matchup for their style of play last year. Other 8/9 teams they could have gotten if placed in their bracket:

Texas/Wake Forest (both very athletic teams)
UNLV/UNI (UNLV athletic/Not UNI)
Gonzaga/FSU (FSU was atough match-up and athletic/Gonzaga was average)

Both Louisville and Cal posed almost zero threat to Duke. Neither teams were athletic in guard play at all. I feel they were protected in the second round.

Past the second round, its difficult to protect a team b/c you just don't know how the tourrament will shake out. I do think it was again extremely helpful for Duke to have a #4 seed in the sweet 16 who was missing arguably their best player in Robbie Hummel. So they get a cake-walk second-round matchup, and then face a Robbie-Hummell-less Purdue team.

It's smells a little fishy to me...
 
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Bucklion;1826551; said:
There is a Duke thread folks...of course I'm not a Mod in here so I can't move [censored] anywhere, so I guess I'm just saying...
I second that motion. I thought this thread was about the Big 10-ACC challenge. There is a "I hate Duke" thread and I am getting tired of reading about Duke and would appreciate this stuff being moved then I just can ignore it by not reading the other thread.
 
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See, I'm a very rational and level headed person, yet I've still never seen it. So produce something tangible if you intend to "open my eyes".
as am I. but I can still see probably 80-90% of the meaningful close calls going Duke's way a large majority of the time. I can still see that bracket they got last year was a joke.
 
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OSUBucks22;1826502; said:
I don't get the name calling, just trying to have a discussion and relay my point... Sorry if that ticks you off.

Can you provide me with some evidence of these accusations though? Show me proof of preferential seeding? What about showing me figures compared to other schools on the foul calls? I'm interested. Otherwise, I don't think you know of what you speak.

Yes, I'm a Duke fan. I'm also a Dayton Flyers fan and an OSU fan. I root for OSU b-ball vs. everyone but Dayton and Duke. But I also like to believe I'm an unbiased sports fan. I'm sure when people spout this stuff about OSU football you're one of the first to run and defend and say it's nonsense. So what say we have some consistency in our arguments?

Its because you think we don't get your points...we do understand its just we see things in a different light.
 
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OSUBucks22;1826502; said:
Can you provide me with some evidence of these accusations though? Show me proof of preferential seeding? What about showing me figures compared to other schools on the foul calls? I'm interested. Otherwise, I don't think you know of what you speak.

If you actually read through the Duke Hater's Manifesto, you'll find that behind the polemics it is actually based upon several seasons worth of numbers and solid analytical reasoning to sustain its arguments.
 
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OSUBucks22;1826487; said:
Here you go... After Turner hit the winner vs. UM last year (about the 1:15 mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQjYFXaRh5w

I'm being serious here--how do you arrive that Matta "wanted to go after UM fans" from that video? I see him yelling at someone off-camera in the direction of the UM bench after Turner hits the shot. Unless there is some other report saying so, I think you're speculating quite a lot to (a) assume that he was yelling at UM fans and (b) assume that what he was saying indicates that he "wanted to go after" them. Like I said, I'm very interested in this story if you have more, (and I say this with all due respect) but so far it looks like you're just making things up.
 
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Duke is really good at basketball. It's their thing. Home cooking exists. Trust me, I've seen it in person in travel bal, AAU, high school and college dozens of times. Hell, I saw it tonight in my son's high school game (we were the visitors). Deal with it.

Any guard that attacks the basket like Kyrie Irving does and has the ability he has to finish without getting his shot blocked is going to go to the foul line a ton no matter what jersey he has on.

Big Ten 6
ACC 5
 
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