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2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

Gallon could tote the rock, and that's a lot of backs on roster. I really don't think they need 8 running backs next fall, particularly not when there are also an abundance of WRs (including slots).
 
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jwinslow;1496511; said:
Gallon could tote the rock, and that's a lot of backs on roster. I really don't think they need 8 running backs next fall, particularly not when there are also an abundance of WRs (including slots).

I just think its kinda sad that we are talking to Michigan fans about how to reconstruct their team/program. Fuck it, lets enjoy the ride until a conventional system is brought in and Michigan becomes a power again. I just don't think RRod "gets" it.
 
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1926Buckeyes;1496573; said:
Wait, why does UM need 9 RBs? I know that the system uses 2-3, but 9? They could get by with 6.

When I am mountain biking in the desert I carry extra tubes. I figure there is a very high chance for critical failure so I need to be extra prepared. This is for high durability tires with extra slime added. If I was biking with wimpy, thin tires I would have to carry like seven spare tires even though I can only use two at a time. (over the course of 12 rides, of course, since I will be out of tubes and skip the 13th ride.)
 
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smithlabs;1496583; said:
When I am mountain biking in the desert I carry extra tubes. I figure there is a very high chance for critical failure so I need to be extra prepared. This is for high durability tires with extra slime added. If I was biking with wimpy, thin tires I would have to carry like seven spare tires even though I can only use two at a time. (over the course of 12 rides, of course, since I will be out of tubes and skip the 13th ride.)

Am I allowed to get a Mike Hart joke in here or is that only for the other thread?
 
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:lol: we haven't ironed that out yet. So far, if there are just a few posts here and there, we keep it here... but if we go on for a few pages about how vertically challenged so and so is, we move it over there (or should start it there).

If you're starting a discussion on something simply to poke fun and not talk football (say like QBForce.com), it should start over there.
 
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jwinslow;1496588; said:
:lol: we haven't ironed that out yet. So far, if there are just a few posts here and there, we keep it here... but if we go on for a few pages about how vertically challenged so and so is, we move it over there (or should start it there).

If you're starting a discussion on something simply to poke fun and not talk football (say like QBForce.com), it should start over there.

Ok well fuck it. The witty joke escapes me now but the pic never gets old. :wink2:

hartonbike.jpg
 
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Nice research done by a member over at mgoblog. Worth the read for sure:


First time poster, long time lurker. While procrastinating on various work projects, I’ve been dithering around with a data set on college football win-loss records. I’m the sort of guy who actually thinks HBS case studies are kinda neat, so futzing with this seemed like fun in its own twisted way. Then one of our fellow mgobloggers put up a really nice monte carlo simulation of the 2009 season (using a $500K piece of software no less) and I felt a little guilty about not posting some of my stuff online. So, here goes …

What sent me down this path was the whole topic of what our expectations should be for next year’s win total. Seems like the general consensus is somewhere between a 3-5 win improvement for next year. I am a Bill James devotee, so I began to wonder how realistic that was in a historical context (i.e., how many teams really improve that much in one year). My instinct was such occasions were not all that common. So, I spent a couple of hours pulling some data (30 years worth of W-L records for every D1A team, to be exact). Here are some summary conclusions and some things that I intend to research a little further and post about whenever the procrastination bug strikes again.


Turns out that big improvements in win totals from one year to another are more common than I thought. There were roughly 300 such cases since 1980. Considering that the data set is about 3300 team seasons, I thought this was pretty remarkable. In essence, the average team has at least one 4+ win improvement season every decade. Score one for optimism here.
Digging a little further, I took a look at extreme win total improvements (+6 wins or more). There were quite a few of these as well – 63 (or more than 2 per season). And they weren’t all MAC and Sun Belt teams either. 28 of those seasons were from teams in one of the six BCS conferences. The Big Ten had 6 such seasons:

  • Northwestern 95
  • Purdue 97
  • Ohio St 02
  • Penn St 05
  • Illinois 07
  • Minnesota 08 (EDIT: Missed the MN season in the first draft).
For those dreaming about the possibility of warm weather for New Years, at least there’s some historical precedent. Also, RichRod is responsible for one of those 63, West Virginia '02, which was +6. Which also happened in his second year after a 3-8 first season. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’ …
For those who are curious, the biggest turnaround in the study (and most likely in college football history) is Hawaii 99 (+9). At +8 were Florida 80, San Jose St 86, Bowling Green 91, South Carolina 00, and Central Florida 05.


I also was wondering if the optimism about a BCS game in two years was rooted in reality. [Editor's note: I would have gone with "vague hope" instead of optimism.] For this, I am assuming the requirement is an 11+ win season. So, if we start with the assumption that this year ends up at 7 wins, we need another 4 win improvement next season to reach that.



Here, the historical precedent is less encouraging*. In the study there are only 5 cases of teams recording 2 consecutive seasons of 4+ win improvements: Colorado St in 89 and 90, Fullerton St in 84 and 85, Georgia Tech in 89 and 90 (culminating with a shared national title), UNLV in 83 and 84, and one other.
This last one should be your reason for optimism, as it is Tulane in 97 and 98. With OC Rich Rodriguez. 2-9 Tulane 96 became 12-0 Tulane 98 under that offense. The historical numbers may be stacked against us, but this staff has defied them once before.


Lastly, I wanted to highlight the three Michigan seasons that were caught by this analysis: 85, 97, and 06 (all +4).
See any themes here? If you named the three best defensive teams of the last 30 years, this is probably the list (with the possible exception of the 80 team). Does this sound like the 09 team to you? Yeah, me neither. Bummer.


I do see some decent parallels to the 85 and 06 teams, though. Both the 84 and 05 teams were plagued by injury hell and were extremely young, as was 08. Both the 85 and 06 teams ushered in a new era of offensive strategy (Bo discovered the forward pass with Harbaugh in 85, the zone stretch changed the running game in 06). For all intents and purposes, 09 is the first real glimpse we’ll have at RichRod’s full playbook so I’m willing to buy that as a philosophical change.
The defense going into both 85 and 06 had only two established stars (Mike Hammerstein/Brad Cochran, Lamarr Woodley/Leon Hall) and a bunch of question marks. Could Graham/Warren count as established stars? The 85 and 06 teams had unheralded defensive players become stars (Mark Messner, Andy Moeller in 85, Alan Branch, David Harris in 06). Could that happen here? Mouton? Martin? Spinner/deathbacker to be named later? Surprise freshman stud (Turner? Campbell? Emelien?) Maybe it’s a stretch, but if you want to be an optimist, I think this is what you look to …
So, that’s all I have for now. I am going to take a closer look at the impact of coaching changes on the big spikes in W/L. Current hypothesis says you get the biggest pop in year 2, but let’s see what the data says. Also going to look at the other side of this coin, seasons of -4 wins or more. Could give some retrospective insight into the whole WTF situation that was 08. If you want me to look at anything else, I am open to suggestions.
* Really this should look at 8+ win improvements over two years, not just consecutive 4+ win years. However, it is late and I’m too tired to do that now. Maybe next time.


[Editor's note: Something struck me as I read this: check out those bounce-back seasons there. Minnesota was 1-11. Illinois was 2-10. Northwestern was 3-7-1, Purdue 3-8, Penn State 4-7. Only OSU -- 7-5 in 2001 -- went from mediocre to very good, and the 2002 OSU team were the luckiest sonsabitches in recent college football history.
Everyone else was bouncing up from horrible to average, which seems much easier to do than to go from average to very good. So, yeah, a crappy bowl beckons.]
 
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That is good work.

Here is the part I liked:

There were roughly 300 such cases since 1980. Considering that the data set is about 3300 team seasons, I thought this was pretty remarkable.

So there is a 91% chance that a team will not improve 4+ wins from one year to the other. I like those odds. :wink2:

Things against a big improvement at tsun (all ball busting aside):
-the B10 will be stronger in '09 than it was in '08 overall. Lots of good QB's back.
-tsun is an injured or inneffective true freshman QB away from essentially being the same offense it was last year.
-even if tsun's offense is better the defense will be worse.

I think they go 2-2 in the OOC and will struggle to win 4 B10 games. 6-7 wins TOPS imo.
 
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Jaxbuck;1496604; said:
That is good work.

Here is the part I liked:



So there is a 91% chance that a team will not improve 4+ wins from one year to the other. I like those odds. :wink2:

Things against a big improvement at tsun (all ball busting aside):
-the B10 will be stronger in '09 than it was in '08 overall. Lots of good QB's back.
-tsun is an injured or inneffective true freshman QB away from essentially being the same offense it was last year.
-even if tsun's offense is better the defense will be worse.

I think they go 2-2 in the OOC and will struggle to win 4 B10 games. 6-7 wins TOPS imo.

It can't be much worse can it?
 
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Jaxbuck;1496604; said:
That is good work.

Here is the part I liked:



So there is a 91% chance that a team will not improve 4+ wins from one year to the other. I like those odds. :wink2:

Things against a big improvement at tsun (all ball busting aside):
-the B10 will be stronger in '09 than it was in '08 overall. Lots of good QB's back.
-tsun is an injured or inneffective true freshman QB away from essentially being the same offense it was last year.
-even if tsun's offense is better the defense will be worse.

I think they go 2-2 in the OOC and will struggle to win 4 B10 games. 6-7 wins TOPS imo.
Looking at their schedule I can see another 3-9 but I agree, I have a hard time finding 8 wins.
 
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