2009 Heisman Trophy discussion

[UTSINCE96]

I'd take Crouch over Nesbitt in a heartbeat. Crouch is in the top 5 worst winners though.

As for Ware, he's a giant douche who played in a gimmick offense but I think I'd still rank him over Nesbitt.

Nesbitt can run the triple-O beautifully but his passing is bad. Really bad. He will luck his way into a great throw once every 5 games or so but other than that it's downright laughable.

Is an offense really a Gimmick if it was effective though?

 

[3074326]

Is an offense really a Gimmick if it was effective though?

Yes.. this question doesn't make any sense. A lot (most?) of these gimmick offenses are effective because they're gimmicks.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Is an offense really a Gimmick if it was effective though?

It's only effective against outmatched D's. Did you see what OU, who had a remarkably bad D statistically, did to Texas Tech last year? What we did to them in '02?

Stick in jagoff in that system and he's passing for 4,000 yards. THAT's a gimmick offense.

 

[Kenshin]

Nesbitt is terrible as a QB... and yes I've watched GT play. He makes Reggie Ball look above average.
Right now I get the impression it'll go to either McCoy or Tebow regardless of their individual stats. They could throw 10 pick-sixes so long as their teams still won, they'd just throw those numbers out.

Here's the kind of things people will say...
"xxx didn't put up great stats, but they led their team to victory"
"xxx has more pressure on them to make plays than ever before because it's all on xxx to make sure yyy keeps winning"
"it's impossible to drop xxx so long as they're playing an important role"

 

[TheIronColonel]

"Just because there are more outstanding players than XXX doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to win."


Oh wait, yes, it does. If a guy sucks out loud this year, then he shouldn't get the trophy. I'd be upset if the trophy hadn't been a complete joke for years. Good players win it, but you can be certain that, more often than not, there's someone more deserving out there.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

"Just because there are more outstanding players than XXX doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to win."


Oh wait, yes, it does. If a guy sucks out loud this year, then he shouldn't get the trophy. I'd be upset if the trophy hadn't been a complete joke for years. Good players win it, but you can be certain that, more often than not, there's someone more deserving out there.

Would it re-gain credibility if it wasn't so QB focused?

I've chunked all RBs in to the same category - fullbacks, wingbacks, half backs.. I also counted the two ends who won as WRs

From 2001-2008 7 QB and 1 RBs won it
From 1991-2000 4 QBs 4 RBs and 2 WRs (1 DB/WR) won it
From 1981-1990 4 QB 5 RB 1 WR
From 1971-1980 1 QB 9 RB
From 1961-1970 6 QB 4 RB
From 1951-1960 1 QB 9 RBs
From 1941-1950 3 QBs (One of whom, Horvath, is listed as QB/HB) 6 RBs, 1 WR (End)
From 1935-1940 1 QB 4 RB 1 WR (End)

27 QBs 42 RBs 5 WR

Now the huge increase in the percentage of QBs who win it today as compared to yester-year could be because of the way the game has changed from a run based game to a pass based game.

 

[TheIronColonel]

I just think it's disingenuous to imply that the Heisman trophy actually goes to "the most outstanding player" in CFB. It doesn't now, and never has. 99.9% of the time it has gone to a flashy offensive player. There have been plenty of dominating OL and defensive players who were clearly 'the most outstanding' player in a given year, but never won. Heck, OSU may have had at least two of them. They'll give it to Tebow or some other guy, but there are clearly more deserving players who won't get consideration. Same as usual.

 

[BB73]

Gene Menez's top-10.

SI.com

1. M. Ingram
2. N. Suh
3. G. Tate
4. CJ Spiller
5. N. Devine
6. J. Clausen
7. R. Williams
8. C. Keenum
9. T. Tebow
10. R. Mathews

 

[Mike80]

that's a top 10 I could live with...

 

[BB73]

Actual Heisman voting is 3-2-1, but this mock poll is 10-7-5-3-1.

CBS

Player .....First..Second..Third..Fourth..Fifth..Total Pts
M. Ingram.....2......2......0......0.......0.......34
J. Clausen....2......2......0......0.......0.......34
C. Keenum.....1......0......1......1.......0.......18
T. Tebow......0......0......1......1.......2.......10
D. Lewis......0......1......0......0.......1........8
K. Moore......0......0......1......1.......0........8
G. Tate.......0......0......1......1.......0........8
C. McCoy......0......0......1......0.......0........5
R. Mathews....0......0......0......1.......0........3
CJ Spiller....0......0......0......0.......1........2

 

[ulukinatme]

Tate is moving up in the ballots, but I dont' think that will last much longer. He's stepped up with the loss of Floyd, but when Floyd returns he may not be getting the same stats he once was. Should be interesting if he continues to get attention after that, I don't think he will, would be nice to see another receiver win the award regardless.

Tebow is moving down, which is as it should be. Tired of seeing the QB of "the best team" receive the award. Would rather see Ingram win it over Tebow again. Archie doesn't need any company

 

[TooTall]

Tate is moving up in the ballots, but I dont' think that will last much longer. He's stepped up with the loss of Floyd, but when Floyd returns he may not be getting the same stats he once was. Should be interesting if he continues to get attention after that, I don't think he will, would be nice to see another receiver win the award regardless.

Tebow is moving down, which is as it should be. Tired of seeing the QB of "the best team" receive the award. Would rather see Ingram win it over Tebow again. Archie doesn't need any company

Golden Tate is a great WR, reminds me a little of Terry Glenn. A player who isn't afraid to stretch out for the ball, or sacrifice their body to catch the ball. I respect the guy.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Heisman Vote 2009 - presented by Nissan

SPORTSCRACK: BARACK OBAMA STRIKES THE HEISMAN POSE

 

[TheIronColonel]

Looks like he's broken into Mack Brown's office.

 

[BB73]

Fiu's Heisman ballot this week, and strong commentary about Tebow's candidacy.

CFN

My Heisman ballot this week would be (if the college football season ended right now) ?
1) Case Keenum, QB Houston,
2) Mark Ingram, RB Alabama,
3) Dan LeFevour, QB Central Michigan

I have worked tirelessly over the last few years trying to convince the Heisman voters of the world that Tebow deserved the honor in his record-setting 2007 season and also last year. I?ve also championed the idea that he?s the greatest college quarterback of all-time, so I feel I?ve earned my stripes to be able to say that, right now, Tim Tebow doesn?t belong in the Heisman discussion and if you currently have him as your front-runner, you need to give at least three reasons why besides his intangibles.

One of the most important pieces in my case over the last few seasons was Tebow?s ability to put the team on his back and carry the way to wins. Has there been a game this year that Florida wouldn?t have won with John Brantley under center? Tebow was great against Tennessee, but Ahmad Black and the defense weren?t going to let the Vols win. I thought Tebow played better than his statistics in the LSU win, but the defense and Jeff Demps were the stars of the game. The two pick-sixes against Mississippi State allowed a blowout game to stay close, and his bad, bad, bad interception at the end of the LSU game was a needless chance taken when the game was already in hand. This year he has completed 64% of his throws, but he has only thrown for 1,159 yards and eight touchdowns, with four of them coming against Troy, and four interceptions, while he has rushed for a pedestrian (for him) 466 yards and six touchdowns.

This isn?t a lifetime achievement award and it really isn?t just about leadership. Tebow isn?t the best college football player in America this year, and it?s not even close. To have him as the leader in so many Heisman chase pieces and to have him a First Team All-American on some Midseason All-America teams is just plain lazy. Now, if he turns his game up a notch and Florida blows away Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida State as part of a five-game run at the end of the regular season, and if he does what he did last year in the SEC Championship, then yeah, he might be at least a finalist. But not at the moment.

To that, I would add that this comparison of 2 SEC QBs in 2009 conference games only:

Tim Tebow (vs 5 SEC opponents - Tenn, Ky, Ark, LSU, Miss St):
3 TD passes, 4 TD rushing, 4 INT, 3 lost fumbles, 15 sacks,
1128 yards tot offense (225.6 yards per game) on 199 plays, (5.67 yards/play)

Jonathan Cromptom (vs 4 SEC opponents - Fla, Aub, UGA, Bama):
7 TD passes, 0 TD rushing, 5 INT, 1 lost fumbles, 08 sacks,
0924 yards tot offense (231.0 yards per game) on 136 plays (6.76 yards/play)

I'd say that Tennessee's opponents so far are at least as good as Florida's opponents. And Crompton has the same number of total TDs (7) in 1 less conference game; he has more total offense per game, over a full yard higher average on yard/play, and has 1.5 turnovers/game to Tebow's 1.43.

To anybody with a Hesiman vote: When Jonathan Crompton has better production in conference games than Tim Tebow, please don't think that Tebow belongs anywhere in the conversation for Heisman frontrunners.