2008 tOSU Defense discussion (official thread)

[Yertle]

Sure, we didn't have the best defense in CFB last season. But, we played in a conference without high-powered offenses, and our toughest OOC game was a mediocre at best Pac 10 team.

However, I can't possibly imagine defense being an issue next year. Look at how much better this group got from 2006 to 2007! Another year of training, maturity, intelligence, teamwork is going to make the 2008 defense unbelievable - ESPECIALLY compared to the Big 10's vanilla offensives. Answer me this question: which Big 10 offense is going to improve more than our defense? The only two that come to mind are Illinois and Michigan. Illinois because their young stars have another year to bloom, and Michigan because they might actually get some creativity with a new regime. Still, I'd say that neither offense will compare to talent we will put on the defensive side of the ball. If Wilson, Homan/Terry/Rolle, and a DT can make big strides, this D could be just silly sick.

And then there's the offense. Who ever finds themself under center will have an incredible line, heisman candidate to hand-off to, and playmakers at receiver. So, who is the QB? Boeckman was a first year starter, was being mentioned (albiet quietly) for mid-season heisman hype, and took this "rebuilding" team to the NC game. AND made it more of a game than our all-world offense did last year. But Buckeye fans are writing him off? WTF is that??? Give the kid some credit. He completed 65% of his passes, and this is without all-american WR talent that we've been blessed with lately. Wait and see what another year does. But, if it is Henton, then I'm feeling pretty damn good that a QB of Boeckman's quality is our second best choice.

Next year will be good. Very good.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You're both right, our defense is no good at all because they gave up 38 points to the #1 team in the nation, who was basically playing a home game, and was on the field most of the game because our offense couldn't move the ball. I should add that we also had multiple penalties resulting in the continuances of drives that should have been over. Yeah, that game really revealed how bad our defense is. We'll be lucky if we hold anyone to 30 next year.

You want to have an intelligent conversation or throw little hissie fits?

The point was simply being made that based on performance against the better teams it is a little premature to be going overboard with the hyperbole for this defense unless there is serious improvement on the DL.

No one is saying there can't or won't be improvement, simply that there must be some.

That said if you think stats compiled against the sisters of the poor are the "real" defense and the Illinois and LSU games were just aberrations then I don't really know what to tell you.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

don't kid yourself. LSU's O was MUCH better than ours. they actually put those numbers up against some good defenses.

I don't give a shit about transitive comparisons...they mean jack shit. The "best defense in the country" never gives up 38 points--and 3 TDs in one quarter--in a game as important as that...I don't give shit if we played the New England Patriots.

 

[MUBuck]

MUbuck, I don't think anyone is saying that tOSU's defense is not good, nor that it very well may be better in '08, but looking at our defense without the S&G glasses show that the Illini ran the last 8-9 minutes off the clock on the defense and LSU put up 38, great defenses (which is what we hope to have next year do not do those things) Great defenses hold great offenses to field goals sometimes, great defenses get the ball back and give the offense one more chance, something this defense did not do in the two losses.

Read the entire thread (I apologize if you did) and you will see that nobody is saying that the D sucks, or is not good, some, myself included, are just trying to temper the enthusiasm with a slight reality check and some points of weakness that need improved.

I understand that our defense needs improvements, but show me a defense last year that didn't need improvements. The purpose of my post wasn't to proclaim to all readers that the OSU defense was a well-oiled machine that could not be stopped, because obviously that was not the case at times last year. My point, which I now realize should have been given a little more subtly, is that we still had a very good defense, arguably the best in the nation for the course of the year. We did have trouble at times (Illinois, 2nd quarter against LSU), but we were also dominant for much of the year. I know that those times we played poorly stick out like sore thumbs, but that's because they occurred during our two losses. Let's not get down on the phenomenal year we had defensively because we can think of a few times, albeit important ones, when we didn't play as well as expected. I think we have all the reason in the world to be excited about our defense next year.

 

[xcrunner]

You're both right, our defense is no good at all because they gave up 38 points to the #1 team in the nation, who was basically playing a home game, and was on the field most of the game because our offense couldn't move the ball. I should add that we also had multiple penalties resulting in the continuances of drives that should have been over. Yeah, that game really revealed how bad our defense is. We'll be lucky if we hold anyone to 30 next year.

Nobody is saying our defense is bad. They're saying it isn't at that 'elite' level yet. It is, for example, lightyears away from 2002. I would not feel comfortable completely relying on this defense to carry our team if our offense couldn't get anything going.
Will this change next year?
I hope so. I think it might. I don't think it will need to.. But I think it might anyway. Senior leadership is big. We will have a lot of it. Talent is big, and we will have a lot of it. Potential first-rounders all across the field for our defense. But will it be 2002? We don't know.

edit- leaving the page up, and then responding a long time later without refreshing and seeing other people's replies is win ;(.

 

[UpNorthBuckeye]

Our defense was great, just not #1 quality. I mean, I know the stats were there but we played a pretty weak schedule.

I hope Gibson and Rolle and Homan get lots of PT.
In my mind I will see Spitler crashing into the punter on 4th and 25 forever.

But yeah, the D will be great.

If the D scores once in a while, and if we win the turnover margin, what a great year we could have.

Oh yeah - let's cut down on the Personal Foul penalties......

Yep, I'm just now recovering from the NC game.....

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Let's resolve something this year, as fans.

No hype, no labels, no "bulletin board material", no crowing about how amped up these guys are going to be and all of the other arm-waving crap we've been doing as fans for the past two seasons.

Let's focus on results -- results that come one game at a time.

Let's not get overblown about a team just because they hang a ton of points on the Poor Sisters of the Blind. Let's not go using season stats to rate a defense that played against half of the MAC.

Instead, let's qualitatively look at what we have and what we need. Nine starters and two guys returning from injury makes for one hell of a core group. The fact that they're all coming off of a pretty good defense from last year is a cause for optimism, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

Pass rush from the line needs to improve. VG was a monster coming from the end, and his presence needs to be replaced and added to. The DT spots need to get more push, as stated. We need to see better containment of mobile QBs (Juice) from the front seven so that the back four don't get pulled out of their coverage. Generally, we need to see better pass coverage.

Yes, this defense has the potential to be one of the greatest we've ever seen here, but there's a lot of work to be done between now and the game in L.A., never mind next January.

Part of that work means not giving up 38 points in the biggest game of the year; part of that work means getting Illinois off of the damned field in the final eight minutes.

The 2002 defense was brilliant because they stepped up and stopped you when they need to do it. They had great stats, but the story wasn't the stats -- it was the STOPS. Right up until the final stop against Miami, they showed up and made it happen on big downs.

That comes from more than talent. It comes from attitude.

We can talk about how "nasty" this defense is if they go into L.A. and shut out USC. That's "nasty". Everything else is message board talk.

 

[Bestbuck36]

2 questions will determine how good this defense can be.

#1. Will Heacock turn them loose or play zone all year? The zone works against the Big10 schools because we have more talent and can impose our will against the slower, more methodical offenses- Purdue/Illinois not withstanding. The talent is there and has been for us to attack teams from time to time and dictate the tempo. If the DT's cant get a pass rush, go man and bring the LBers up the middle. Our DB's are good enough to cover 1 on 1.

#2. How good will our offense be? If our offense mows people down with Beanie and a solid play action game, the defense will stay rested and other teams will be playing from behind. Even in the NC game if we continue to smash Beanie at LSU the defense would have been fresher in that 2nd quarter, not to mention the score might've been more in our favor. The offense's success next season will lead our defense onto the field either fresh and ready to go, or worn out come Michigan and the Bowl game.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Pass rush isn't the problem. The scheme is not necessarily the problem. The problem is that our guys have a hard time getting off blocks against good OLs, and I mean the linebackers, the DTs, and DEs, everybody. If you can't stop a team from picking up six, seven yards on the ground on first and second downs, there is very little chance that you will have any kind of success whatsoever. LSU wasn't getting those second and short because Flynn was lighting it up downfield, it's cuz our guys in the box can't get a hand on the LSU tailbacks until they are 7, 8, 9 yards down field.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Pass rush isn't the problem. The scheme is not necessarily the problem. The problem is that our guys have a hard time getting off blocks against good OLs, and I mean the linebackers, the DTs, and DEs, everybody. If you can't stop a team from picking up six, seven yards on the ground on first and second downs, there is very little chance that you will have any kind of success whatsoever. LSU wasn't getting those second and short because Flynn was lighting it up downfield, it's cuz our guys in the box can't get a hand on the LSU tailbacks until they are 7, 8, 9 yards down field.

Bingo

Getting off blocks and keeping their shoulders square. 2 things you'll see almost every play from watching tape of the 2002 defense and 2 things you don't see consistently from this defense...yet.

 

[MUBuck]

Pass rush isn't the problem. The scheme is not necessarily the problem. The problem is that our guys have a hard time getting off blocks against good OLs, and I mean the linebackers, the DTs, and DEs, everybody. If you can't stop a team from picking up six, seven yards on the ground on first and second downs, there is very little chance that you will have any kind of success whatsoever. LSU wasn't getting those second and short because Flynn was lighting it up downfield, it's cuz our guys in the box can't get a hand on the LSU tailbacks until they are 7, 8, 9 yards down field.

You're definitely right about that. Keep in mind though, three out of the four DL were first-time starters. I think if our DT play is improved, which I can't see how it won't be, our LBs will be able to make plays closer to the LOS. Kind of discouraged by how easily LSU was able to not only get OL up to the second level, but also stay engaged for so long. I'm sure that will be a point of emphasis this off-season.

 

[stowfan]

I'm really hoping Garrett Goebel turns out to be this year's Cam Heyward.

 

[joefoshow]

I also Etinna Sabado does some good this year to
(sorry bout the bad spelling)

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I also think Etienne Sabino does some good this year too.

I would not be at all surprised if all of the LB recruits red-shirt this year.

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

I hope, probably more than anything else, that the coaches take the reins off of this defense. The back seven is potentially the best we've ever had in terms of talent and depth, and I just hope they let them use that ability and just sub out for them if they're tired.

Trust the DB's to be able to cover 1 on 1 a little more, stop playing 5-10 yards off the WR's, sure there will be some big plays given up, but let the D dictate to the opponents offense, instead of playing so much reaction type defense.

While I have been one of the posters, in this thread, to most point out the deficiencies with this years D-line, I also am very optimistic that another off season in the S&C program, another off season of being coached up, and absorbing what they learned this year as well as in influx of green but talented youngsters to push them with competition in practice very well might make this a D-line much more similar to the 2002 group. Dex starring as Tim Anderson, a bigger more technically correct Worthington starring as Kenny Peterson, a healthy Lawrence Wilson starring as Will Smith and a more seasoned Cam Heyward starring as Darrion Scott.

This is bold, I agree, but Dex and Anderson have similar wrestling backgrounds and great motors, Worthington and Peterson similar size and the need to adjust to playing DT after all the time at DE, Wilson and Smith both very athletic rush ends with good size, and both Cam and Scott big but suprisingly athletic run stopping ends.

Hopefully when we look back in a few years, we'll chalk the 2007 year up as a year when the D-lineman gained the experience necessary to make them one of the Buck's best ever D-lines in '08.