2008 tOSU Defense discussion (official thread)

[MililaniBuckeye]

The 2002 defense was brilliant because they stepped up and stopped you when they need to do it. They had great stats, but the story wasn't the stats -- it was the STOPS. Right up until the final stop against Miami, they showed up and made it happen on big downs.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The 2002 defense probably didn't quite have the stats the 2007 defense did, but they sure stepped up everytime they needed to...

 

[RB07OSU]

I don't really know much about X's and O's but from a scheme perspective how can you get a guy like Rolle, with the unique abilities he has, on the field more often?

I would love to see a package that includes a ROVER position like Georgia's defense. They usually have a guy in the Brian Rolle mode that is a Safety/LB size and play him as a mixture. Essentially they make a lot of tackles and are free to roam the field a bit. I would also love to see Brian get in on passing downs to blitz off the edge with that great speed.

 

[RB07OSU]

2 words. Senior leadership.

And that is exactly what we were missing this year. It's really tough to have the kind of leadership we had in '02 and it's absolutely vital. As BrutusBobcat said, the '02 defense made stops when they needed to and not just against the puds, up by 20 plus points. We will have outstanding senior leadership next year on defense from Lauranaitis, Jenkins, Freeman, Terry, Abdallah, Wilson, and Patterson. That is a good mix of seniors with returning seniors on offense with Boeckman, M. Wells, Robiskie, Nicol, B. Smith, Boone, Mitchum, Person, Rehring, and Skinner. I really think the leadership will be there on defense but don't forget 1 other vital thing...luck. We had a great team in '02 that absolutely deserved the title, but the bounces also have to go your way as well.

 

[bukIpower]

Brian Rolle would bring an attitue to our defense thats what he would bring... To be honest I don't think our defense is mean enough, they don't strike any type of fear into an opposing offense. Brian Rolle the way he hits would make eveyrone around him better. Personally the more gifted linebacker probably would be Homan, but the one who would benefit our defense from an attitue stand point would be Brian Rolle which is why I hope he starts. When you have a kid out there flying around jacking every thing that crosses his face it makes the kids around him that much more aggressive, and that much more likely to create turnovers and to make them more tentative the next time around. I love the way that guys hits and thats what our defenses is missing. We don't have any heavy hitters right now on this defense, but I believe every single one of them would have a attitude if someone just stepped up and made it a point to make the ball carries PAY.

When I think of OSU defense I think, very sound, fast ,won't get beat by the big play, BUT not that aggressive of a defense. Thats atleast what I think of when I think of our defense. It's ok to play this non blitzing, sit back and make the tackle type of defense when the teams you face dont have the athletic ability to get around you, but when the competition level rises our defense has not performed all that well with this conservative approach. IMO, its not the players, its the coaches scheme. The coaches coach the kids up very well, because IMO we seem to know what we're doing but the thing is we can't play this passive defense ALL the time.

I mean this defense from last year/this year will all be moving onto the NFL most likely so the talent is there you can't deny that. Do we have a good defense HELL YEAH we do we HAVE THE BEST DEFENSE, but when you let other offenses dictate the speed or the tempo of the game you're going to pay when you run into a team that can go toe to toe with you. It's like in a fight if you're fighting someone thats smaller, sure let him swing on you first it won't hurt that much. However, I dunno bout you guys but if it was someone my size or slightly bigger (better) I'd want to take the fight to them you're surely not going to go into it with a conservative approach. You don't let them come out and push you around and dictate how the game is going to be played. Now to their credit they were a little more aggressive against LSU, but IMO NOT ENOUGH. We have a back 7 that will all most likely see extensive playing time in the NFL one day so stop being so gun shy about being beat DEEP! When the only team on your schedule that can play with you is USC why do we fear the big play so much? If we get beat deep, fine just sit down with your defense do some adjusting and get back into the game and get after it again. It's only going to cost you 3-7 points if you get beat deep and with our offenses we can get those points back.

Also about the SEC... we need to get some OOC games with them to get our feet under ourselves here. I know this would be funny to see but I'm serious when I say this.. Play Vanderbuilt, Kentucky,Arkansas, and Ole Miss over the next few years just to get some wins and to put a stop to the mental road block that is the SEC. I think now its not so much they're better, its just that they know they can win were as we DOUBT we can win. We've got to get some wins against these guys.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The 2002 defense probably didn't quite have the stats the 2007 defense did, but they sure stepped up everytime they needed to...

I agree completely. Every time we needed a huge stop of defense, I was confident in the 2002 defense. This year, despite all of the talent, I held my breath every time we needed a stop because this team wasn't anywhere near as sure of a bet.

Another year of S&C not to mention more technique instruction will work wonders for these guys.. not to mention that they all have at least a year of starting experience, and a lot of them have two years of experiences of playing on the biggest stage there is in college football.

 

[bukIpower]

agree though.. More Senior leaders, more work in the weight room (DT's especially), and more practice will make for a better defense.

I'll gauge this defense on ONE game alone next year maybe two. The USC game will tell me all I need to know next year about our defense, and maybe Illinois as well. We will rule the College football world from a stat stand point once again, but it means nothing to me if we can't stop the two most potent offenses on our schedule. If we play great agaisnt USC but lose then I'll still think of this defense as a tremendous group, but if we get blown out I'll look at this group who benefits from playing a soft schedule.

 

[Jaxbuck]

The back seven is potentially the best we've ever had in terms of talent and depth, and I just hope they let them use that ability and just sub out for them if they're tired.

I would say the '98 back 7 was and still is the most talented we've had since the '68-'75 era teams.

Winfield, Plummer, Barry and Moore were the best secondary we've had since I've been old enough to remember. Nate Clements was the nickel back for gods sake. They were significantly better than the current group no matter how much they improve. The two starting CB's and the nickel were all first round draft picks and true shut down corners. They all shut down the pass and played the run equally well.

Diggs, Big Kat and J Rud were equal to or better than our current LB's as well. JL is a stud but no way in hell he's the block shedding, inside run stopper that AK was. Diggs was as athletic as Freeman, the only one I'd say wasn't better than the current group was J Rud but his leadership was invaluable.

 

[Kickdown02]

Also about the SEC... we need to get some OOC games with them to get our feet under ourselves here. I know this would be funny to see but I'm serious when I say this.. Play Vanderbuilt, Kentucky,Arkansas, and Ole Miss over the next few years just to get some wins and to put a stop to the mental road block that is the SEC. I think now its not so much they're better, its just that they know they can win were as we DOUBT we can win. We've got to get some wins against these guys.

Good scheduling idea, the problem is getting these teams to come up north. Is there any validity to the rumor of Georgia doing a 1-1?

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

I would say the '98 back 7 was and still is the most talented we've had since the '68-'75 era teams.

Winfield, Plummer, Barry and Moore were the best secondary we've had since I've been old enough to remember. Nate Clements was the nickel back for gods sake. They were significantly better than the current group no matter how much they improve. The two starting CB's and the nickel were all first round draft picks and true shut down corners. They all shut down the pass and played the run equally well.

Diggs, Big Kat and J Rud were equal to or better than our current LB's as well. JL is a stud but no way in hell he's the block shedding, inside run stopper that AK was. Diggs was as athletic as Freeman, the only one I'd say wasn't better than the current group was J Rud but his leadership was invaluable.

Agreed Jax the '98 unit was sick, I tend to block out most things Cooper (even his awesome recruiting, because he couldn't close the deal with that talent, it's just like traumatic events our minds defensively block out)

That said, let's see, I think Jenkins can be Winfields equal in his senior year(tho Antoine was still the best run supporting cover corner I've ever seen) and DW and Chekwa will play in the league (all three do at least adequately in run support, even Chimdi with his slight build) Also think Anderson is NFL caliber, he was great last year so close to his knee injury, and if he had held on to half of the balls that hit him in the hands, his stats would have been comparable with the greats (don't think he has Berry's speed tho) KColeman has a ton of potential, and with a little more size and experience, I see him being in Moore's league (pun intended)

At LB Big Kat was awesome and absolutely brought the wood in a huge package, but JL is no slouch and probably plays the pass better, but I agree the Kat was awesome getting off of blocks. Diggs was very athletic, but I think Freeman with his confidence up after his excellent year may be Diggs equal. JR brought guts and leadership, I think CTerry brings similar things with better athletic talent.

Granted all of this is seen through current scarlet colored glasses, I honestly think that if this group of starters develops/improves the way I think/hope, they can be the equal to that group (by the end of '08, not the beginning) With the depth tOSU has as well, there will be no resting on their laurels, or they'll lose their starting spot.

 

[lvbuckeye]

I don't give a shit about transitive comparisons...they mean jack shit. The "best defense in the country" never gives up 38 points--and 3 TDs in one quarter--in a game as important as that...I don't give shit if we played the New England Patriots.

i think you missed my point. you said that LSU's O was no better than ours. i said their O was much better than ours and provided a rather compelling argument to show how our O performed in light of other competition. oh, yeah. remember the Minny game in '05? 540 yards and how many points? there are such things as anomalies. the LSU game wasn't one of them.

stats don't tell the whole story. having the best stats doesn't mean you're the best. scoring a comparable amount of points against weaker competition does not mean the offenses are rough equals.

 

[Gatorubet]

More man, less zone. You have the talent, but you need the courage to let them do it.

Sure, you will get burned a time or two, but the freedom and flexibility it affords the d-coordinator to attack the offense with extra personnel is priceless.

 

[MD Buckeye]

I would say the '98 back 7 was and still is the most talented we've had since the '68-'75 era teams.

Winfield, Plummer, Barry and Moore were the best secondary we've had since I've been old enough to remember. Nate Clements was the nickel back for gods sake. They were significantly better than the current group no matter how much they improve. The two starting CB's and the nickel were all first round draft picks and true shut down corners. They all shut down the pass and played the run equally well.

Diggs, Big Kat and J Rud were equal to or better than our current LB's as well. JL is a stud but no way in hell he's the block shedding, inside run stopper that AK was. Diggs was as athletic as Freeman, the only one I'd say wasn't better than the current group was J Rud but his leadership was invaluable.

I couldn't agree more Jax. Big Kat was a monster.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Agreed Jax the '98 unit was sick, I tend to block out most things Cooper (even his awesome recruiting, because he couldn't close the deal with that talent, it's just like traumatic events our minds defensively block out)

That said, let's see, I think Jenkins can be Winfields equal in his senior year(tho Antoine was still the best run supporting cover corner I've ever seen) and DW and Chekwa will play in the league (all three do at least adequately in run support, even Chimdi with his slight build) Also think Anderson is NFL caliber, he was great last year so close to his knee injury, and if he had held on to half of the balls that hit him in the hands, his stats would have been comparable with the greats (don't think he has Berry's speed tho) KColeman has a ton of potential, and with a little more size and experience, I see him being in Moore's league (pun intended)

At LB Big Kat was awesome and absolutely brought the wood in a huge package, but JL is no slouch and probably plays the pass better, but I agree the Kat was awesome getting off of blocks. Diggs was very athletic, but I think Freeman with his confidence up after his excellent year may be Diggs equal. JR brought guts and leadership, I think CTerry brings similar things with better athletic talent.

We are going to have to agree to disagree Grizz. Not ripping on the current kids but you just can't mention Jenkins and Winfield in the same sentance. Its not even close. Winfield was one of the top 3-4 DB's we've ever had at OSU, MJ is a nice solid player.

I think its almost as lopsided with every other secondary player we are talking about here. NFL success aside, just going on what they did/are doing in college, I would take every single member of that '98 secondary over their counterpart on the '08 team, everyone of them.

LB's is almost the same. Freeman is at best Digg's equal, I'll take the '08 guy(whoever it may be) over J Rud on plain athleticisim but again, no way I'd take JL over AK. Don't get me wrong I like JL, I think he's maybe a bit over hyped, but as much a physical specimin that he is he is nowhere near AK.

So outside of J Rud and maybe Freeman over Diggs I'd take the '98 team over '08 everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

I think the historical benchmark the '08 defense should be held against is the '05 defense. Thats more realistic imo. They are very good and could get a lot better with a big improvement along the DL but they just aren't in the same weight class as the '98, '73, '69 caliber defenses.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

NFL success aside, just going on what they did/are doing in college, I would take every single member of that '98 secondary over their counterpart on the '08 team, everyone of them.

Maybe we should wait until we actually see the '08 secondary before jumping to conclusions. Last year, Jenkins was a junior, Russell a sophomore coming off a serious injury, Coleman a 1st year starter and sophomore, and Washington a 1st year starter and sophomore. Plus, you have guys like Chekwa, Clifford, O'Neal, and Scott who saw time last year too. Isn't the most improvement usually made from year 1 to year 2? Now, I don't want to give you the idea I expect them to be as good as the '98 secondary because that's asking a lot but I don't think there will be as wide of a gap between them as you seem to suggest.

EDIT- Our secondary will be so deep I even forgot to mention Amos who was pushing for some serious time before getting injured. Pentello and Evege are the wildcards.

 

[IYE2]

To me, the senior leadership aspect is a little overrated. The positions in '06/'07 and '05/'06 were similar enough. They knew what they had to do, what was expected. Also, I think I read how many ever articles talking about how Malcolm and JL would lead the group b4 games, w/e..who are our leaders this year? The same guys. Imo, it really has nothing to do w/ seniors.

Not to sound like a downer...